Elves and rangeweapons / Elfen und Fernkampfwaffen

[Galim]

Hello. I want to make the proposal that elves should get a bonus on their rangeweaponskills.

until now elves are the most worse archers in illarion. even dwarves are better archers. because of their lowered amount of points for the charactercreation elves can't make their stats for rangeweapons as high as other races. This means they ARE disadvantaged with range weapons like bows. Where is there the logic?

elves, well known for their good bow-skills, are the worst archers in illarion. That is not right. It should be different.

There should be changed something.And the most easy solution would be a bonus for elves with rangeweapons. It would be enough with bows.

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Ich Glaube Elfen sollten einen Bonus auf Fernwaffen erhalten.

Bisher sind Elfen von allen Rassen die schlechtesten Fernkämpfer. Aufgrund ihrer gesenkten Punkteanzahl für das Erstellen eines elfen haben jene automatisch niedrigere attribute als alle anderen Rassen. Selbst Zwerge sind bessere Fernkämpfer. Elfen können nicht so hohe attribute für den fernkampf haben wie jede andere rasse.

Wo ist da die logik? elfen gelten überall als hervorragende bogenschützen. doch in illa sind sie die schlechtesten. und das wegen eines unausgereiften charactererstellungssystems. Selbst jeder zwerg ist ein besserer bogenschütze wenn er daraufhin erstellt wurde.

So finde ich soltlen elfen einen bonus auf fernkampf kriegen. und wenn es nur mit dem bogen ist.das wäre die beste lösung dafür.

[martin]

Das Kampfsystem wird komplett modifiziert, weil es im aktuellen einige Ungereimtheiten gibt und weil wir mittlerweile weitaus bessere technische Moeglichkeiten haben.
Warten wir erst einmal ab, wie es dann ausschaut.

Martin

[Galim]

Nun, wielange wird dies dauern? Ist es eher ein Zeitramen in Monaten? Eine Vorläufige Lösung bis es zu diesen Änderungen kommt wäre nett.

[martin]

Nun, wielange wird dies dauern? Ist es eher ein Zeitramen in Monaten? Eine Vorläufige Lösung bis es zu diesen Änderungen kommt wäre nett.

Dauert bestimmt noch ein bisschen.
Wie lang genau, kann ich nicht sagen, aber da die letzten Monate ohne Tote und Verletzte abgelaufen sind, schaetze ich, dass es weiterhin ertraeglich sein wird, zumal so ein Bonus fuer Elfen auch nicht viel unaufwendiger waere.

Martin

[Darlok]

Ich hab mal ein wenig rumprobiert, aber egal was ich angestellt habe, der Elf wird immer der bessere Bogenschütze, jedenfalls besser als der Zwerg den ich am Ende rausbekommen würde.

Vom Potential ist der Elf Charakter der klar Überlegene wenn es darum geht ihn zum Bogenschiessen auszulegen.

Dem einzigen Punkt dem ich zustimme ist, dass der Elf weniger Attributspunkte zum verteilen hat ohne diesen Nachteil durch einen Vorteil an anderer Stelle wieder aufzuwiegen.

[Galim]

Darlok, ich habe dir eine PM geschickt. Beim Fernkmapf muss man einiges beachten. Vorallem mit Bogen. Du wirst sehen was ich meine.

[Gro'bul]

My character used to be a decent archer until the new fighting system. Zerbus was quite good with a bow I thought too. Not complaining, just stating a fact I guess. And since when do dwarves use bows anyway..., now throwing stars MAYBE. Wouldn't it be sort of dishonerable among dwarves to shoot your enemy from far away rather than facing him in hand to hand combat? I always thought so, otherwise why would they all be wearing heavy armor. Most of the elves do not usually fight anyway, and the ones that do are generally mages I guess. Now if they had superior archery equipment to other races, then players may want to be archers.

[martin]

Darlok, ich habe dir eine PM geschickt. Beim Fernkmapf muss man einiges beachten. Vorallem mit Bogen. Du wirst sehen was ich meine.

Eventuell waers keine schlechte Idee, das nicht nur Darlok zu schicken?

Martin

[Djironnyma]

elfen haben bedeutende rp-technische vorteile wie ihre unsterblichkeit, kein schlaf nur halbsolange meditation, ihr naturgespür (bäumen und tieren zuhören zB.) usw...
außerdem haben die vorrausetzungen zu den besten magiern

[martin]

Meditation?
Schlaf?

Was?

[Nilo]

Yes, I have an elf made Perfect for archery.. good eyesight, very swift, and very strong, with a fair amount of dexterity... And he is a better archer than the dwarves....

However, I think they could be slightly better... Using bows seems so unrealistic now, since archers are not good at defending themselves against close ranged... someone with an axe could quickly kill me before my arrows penetrate his armour.

It takes me approximately 5 hits to kill a pig (this was before i was killed about 10 times )... now im sure it takes more.

also it is quite hard to raise ranged combat skills... just fyi

[Kasume]

Dwarves tend to be well with crossbows.

[Galim]

No Nilo, sorry. A maxed elf in archery has just 2 point dexterity and agility more, a maxed dwarf has 10 strength more. that makes him better. and the dwarf has a better constitution too.

[martin]

Let's have max-out-parties.

I'll give you all the algorithms and you try to max out everything.

I think this gives a very new aspect to roleplaying games.

Did I say "roleplaying"? Oh, sorry. Mea culpa.

Martin

[Galim]

so it is roleplay for you that the elves are worse archers compared with other races?

see, the thing is that elves,wellknown as a folk of great bowmen, are worse bowmen compared with the other races.

and, sorry to dissapoint your view of the game, but when you want to roleplay a successfull archer you have to max him out. because the other way he would be a terrible archer. even a good roleplayer have problems to hold up his role of a good archer when he is not able to hit a pig 4 feets away.

that is the current system. an average character is nice for just sitting at the campfire and talk, or something like that. But you can forget him when it is time to use his stats.

and that counts especially for archers, because by them the problem is bigger

[Bloodhearte]

I think what Martin is saying, is that the technical aspects of Illarion are a little complicated and/or goofy right now. Try to get around this technical weakness by roleplaying archery.

In actual battles, it takes one or two arrows to kill a person. It takes much more here.

But would it be fair to have Martin make it where people can be killed in one or two hits? It's best to script roleplay for such events needing a bow. (Not to mention, the new combat fad would change from everybody with double axes, to everybody taking up archery .)

[Fergesh]

Well if we want to get obnoxious alot of the time if you were stabbed by a dagger, the chances are you would be dead.

[Djironnyma]

martin: elfen brauchen nicht zu schlafen (bzw können es garnicht wirklich) zur erholunghalten sie meditation und das rund vier stunden lang....

[Shandariel el Lysanthrai]

Sagt wer Djironnyma? Sowohl auf der Illarionseite als auch auf Moonsilver konnte ich nichts diesbezüglich finden.

[martin]

Sagt wer Djironnyma? Sowohl auf der Illarionseite als auch auf Moonsilver konnte ich nichts diesbezüglich finden.

Danke, du ersparst mir eine Antwort.

@Dji:
Kanns sein, dass du deine Vorstellung als Mass aller Dinge missbrauchst und meinst, dass JEDER genau deine Vorstellungen und Ideale teilt?

Martin

[Shandariel el Lysanthrai]

Diese Eigenschaft der Elfen stammt von Pen und Paper games. Ich weiss nicht ob es DSA oder D&D war. Ich denke in DSA war es.

[martin]

Diese Eigenschaft der Elfen stammt von Pen und Paper games. Ich weiss nicht ob es DSA oder D&D war. Ich denke in DSA war es.

Sie stammt von EINEM P&P.
In allen anderen ist es anders.

Martin

[Darlok]

Lets get back to the main problem, which is not "Elves suck at bow using."
This is (/might be) just a side effect.

This is caused by the fact that elves have less attribute points for distribution then all other races.

Why is that so?
The main intention of this huge disadvantage was to compensate an advantage that never was implemented in the game so far.
It was planed that characters age, but since elves have an insanely long life they will most likely not face thier mortal end during the time the player uses this character unlike characters of other races.

What can we do?
There are several possible solutions:

1.
Implement aging and laugh at non-elve-players when they whine over the mortality of thier characters.

2.
Add extra points to the distribution when creating elves.
2.1.
All old elves have bad luck, only new elves get these extra points.
2.2.
Wipe all elves and let the players recreate thier characters to use the bonus points.

3.
Give bonus skills points for special actions.
Write a list o things where elves should be good at.
Add a check routine at every action-scipt that is affected by this list.
"If Character is Elf then add XX Skillpoints to base value."

4.
Make elven characters learn 4 times faster then other characters.
This should even out the disadvantage of thier attributes.

Make your pick.

[Gro'bul]

You could just increase the base essence, intelligence, perception, and willpower. The funny thing is humans have the highest base willpower, which makes really...no sense at all. They are by far the most easily corrupted.

[Djironnyma]

kann es sein guter martin das du gerne voreilige schlüsse ziehst? diese sachen habe ich mir keinesfals ausgedacht sie stammen von damien....

edit: und ja sie stehen nirgends, aber das tuen eine menge informationen nicht, die ig trotzdem volle gültigkeit haben...

[Darlok]

Off Topic:
Ich würde mich nicht unbedingt auf etwas berufen, dass nicht irgendwo auf der Homepage festgehalten ist oder zumindest bei Moonsilver steht.

Das gibt doch nur wieder Streit wenn da jemand irgendeine "Gültigkeit" durchsetzten will.

Und auch wenn Damien ein lustiger und netter Kerl ist, seine Worte sind nicht in Stein gemeisselt und erhalten Allgemeingültigkeit sobald ausgesprochen.

[Hermie]

I believe point 5 is missing, this point being : do nothing.

Yes, Elves are supposed to be superior at archery according to myth. Why does Illarion have to be the same? The idea of these attributes is to allow you to make your own char.

However, I am not saying that we should not follow stereotypes at all, just not stick to them 100%. Otherwise the ability to chose your own attributes should be disabled.

[Gro'bul]

I believe point 5 is missing, this point being : do nothing.

Yes, Elves are supposed to be superior at archery according to myth. Why does Illarion have to be the same? The idea of these attributes is to allow you to make your own char.

However, I am not saying that we should not follow stereotypes at all, just not stick to them 100%. Otherwise the ability to chose your own attributes should be disabled.

This is a good point Hermie. These elves come from all over, and there is no game animals at the island right now, which might attract bow hunters. There really is no particular reason an archer might want to come to this island. In this case its not really that elves don't use bows, iti s that the one's who come to this island don't.

[Galim]

And where is the roleplay reason that other races are natural more skilled archers than elves? Even moonsilver says that elves are natural skilled archers.

the point is that the gamesystem makes the elves to the worst archers in illarion. that means elves are the worst talented archers in the world of illarion. and even moonsilver says or have the quote that elves ARE skilled archers. In the german version that skilled doesn't mean skills, but dexterity and talent.

[martin]

And where is the roleplay reason that other races are natural more skilled archers than elves?

Only if they have maxed attributes.
Only with the current client.

This thread will be closed now, as it seems to me that arguments do not count and everything is repeated millions of times.

Martin