Malvita finishes his Parchment and tacks it to the wall. It can visably be seen right here. He walks back to find the men he was talking to missing, and desides to have a walk to think. Upon finding very few people in town to speak to at all he heads for the inn for the night. He hears a few voices behind him but can't make out what they're saying.
Edit by GMcFly
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Voice of the People
Moderator: Gamemasters
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Malvita Rynal
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:27 am
- Contact:
Malvita, I must make an objection against this. You are but a child. How do you think you can do better then what the town gaurd and the grey rose proposed. This is somewhat outrageous.
Maybe if someone more mature could also make his entrance, help you around. Then people will start to follow, not how it is now. I thank you in advance.
Sincerely,
~Misjbar~
Maybe if someone more mature could also make his entrance, help you around. Then people will start to follow, not how it is now. I thank you in advance.
Sincerely,
~Misjbar~
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Moirear Sian
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:12 am
To Misjbar,
I have discussed this with the young prince Malvita. I may not be an awful lot older, but I stand behind what he proposes. As does another person, who is yet older than myself.
It's not outrageous, anybody who's honest cannot deny the young man is quite wise and intelligent for his age. He's not proposing to be a leader of any sorts, he is merely an initiator of this party.
It's interesting you put him down so quickly, though - if you'd take the time and read what the fine lad has written, you might find certain things to be reasonable and agreeable aspects. Shall I remind you that you were one of the people supporting Trystan's idea of five heads in the council instead of the Triumvirate's three?
Warm regards,
I have discussed this with the young prince Malvita. I may not be an awful lot older, but I stand behind what he proposes. As does another person, who is yet older than myself.
It's not outrageous, anybody who's honest cannot deny the young man is quite wise and intelligent for his age. He's not proposing to be a leader of any sorts, he is merely an initiator of this party.
It's interesting you put him down so quickly, though - if you'd take the time and read what the fine lad has written, you might find certain things to be reasonable and agreeable aspects. Shall I remind you that you were one of the people supporting Trystan's idea of five heads in the council instead of the Triumvirate's three?
Warm regards,
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Malvita Rynal
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:27 am
- Contact:
Malvita checks the parchment to read what has been written, under it he finds Misjbar's letter and replies:
Yes, Misjbar, even by human standards I am young. But I have had quite a bit of experience in politics, and I have the best interest of the people in mind. I never said I was appointing myself to anything, I only asked for support. Also, there are others that share my interests, but they shall not be named by me, they will write their own pieces. I don't have the right to speak for anyone else unless they tell me to. Misjbar, you have an opinion on many things don't you? You'd like to have your voice heard? Why not help support our cause. Many things need to be done, but until people can be helped, and things fixed, we must get this government out of the way and have the people elect their own leaders. I don't think you want me to hold my tongue, just because I'm young. You'd rather be controlled than listen to someone much younger than you?
~Malvita~
Yes, Misjbar, even by human standards I am young. But I have had quite a bit of experience in politics, and I have the best interest of the people in mind. I never said I was appointing myself to anything, I only asked for support. Also, there are others that share my interests, but they shall not be named by me, they will write their own pieces. I don't have the right to speak for anyone else unless they tell me to. Misjbar, you have an opinion on many things don't you? You'd like to have your voice heard? Why not help support our cause. Many things need to be done, but until people can be helped, and things fixed, we must get this government out of the way and have the people elect their own leaders. I don't think you want me to hold my tongue, just because I'm young. You'd rather be controlled than listen to someone much younger than you?
~Malvita~
To Sian: I never said I did not agree what he has written, but I have many experiences with humans in the past, older humans, who were foolish. Why wouldn't the younger specimens of your race be more foolish as them? I just needed conformation that he can do this.
To Malvita: I am sorry, but I was strictly told not to get involved to much in this, goverment changing. But good luck, and I hope you can keep your candidates from bothering elves too much.
Sincerely,
~Misjbar~
To Malvita: I am sorry, but I was strictly told not to get involved to much in this, goverment changing. But good luck, and I hope you can keep your candidates from bothering elves too much.
Sincerely,
~Misjbar~
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Malvita Rynal
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:27 am
- Contact:
The Elves should be as active a part of this as any others. You should have a say in this if you plan on staying in the town, or visiting at all. Although I do understand the elvish sentimate of "getting a town and straying from Troll's Bane to the utmost extent". Troll's Bane should close it's gates to only those who wish to do it harm, not to those of a certain race. We do not need racists , or dictators of any kind. Granted yes, my race has been foolish in the past, but so have the elves, even your past is a bit boggled isn't it Misjbar? I shall not cast stones, because that's not what we're here to do. What we need to do is make it easier on the common people of the town. Do you have any suggestions Misjbar, or anyone else who reads this?
~Malvita~
Malvita walks to the river and washes his hands... feeling odd to be so helpful to the town, but feeling a warm feeling inside.
Edit by GMcFly
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~Malvita~
Malvita walks to the river and washes his hands... feeling odd to be so helpful to the town, but feeling a warm feeling inside.
Edit by GMcFly
del ooc
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Moirear Sian
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:12 am
Dear Malvita
I do not necessarily condone the actions of any particular political group during these times. But as I read your self-righteous statements telling of the difference between yourself and Lyrenzia, I see that in the end you are just another self-righteous dreamer, one of many thousands who have come before you, for like them, you have yet to understand a simple point, one that was put forth since the first day of Lyrenzia.
Consider this sequence: You want to give power to the people, but how exactly will this be? Will there be 5 electees? 9? Who's to say? What if I want 7 or 11?
The people will vote and decide the numbers, you answer? Well what makes someone a citizen, as you have asked yourself? If I write on these boards 100 signatures with various forged names, who has the right to say which names are real or not? Who can decide the criteria by which a name is verified as representing a real person? Who has the right to say what criminals or what people from other lands passing by for only 1 day or 1 month can or cannot vote?
Then we will all meet in person to vote, you say? Then who will decide what day, time, and place is best for all? Who is to say who's choice was the official election day? Who has the power and ability to keep track that nobody will vote more than once? And who had the power to say that we must be ruled by majority in the first place?
Why should any person's idea of the people's government be the one that is used instead of anyone else who has their own idea of how the people's government should be?
So you see, it is an endless cycle. For every decision that needs to be made, there exists a criteria for who and how to decide it, which itself needs to be decided in the first place.
You think you can give power to the people, but in order to do that, you would have to have the power to give it, to begin with. And the only way to do that is to take the power into your own hands, just like Lyrenzia did, which would turn you into a hypocrite in order to do what needs to be done.
Maybe you think these specific details are trivial things to you, but they are not, and the taking of power by someone is needed to make those decisions eventually. You can sit and talk all day about the perfect government and equality for all, but coming up with ideas for what the perfect government should be, is a completely different matter from what it takes to set up ANY type of government into place in this world we call Illarion. In the end, you're another person who likes to use self righteous words like freedom, but doesn't realize why Lyrenzia had to come in the way they did and what stopped all the others that came before you and before Lyrenzia.
It's not just a coincidence that thousands before like you who dreamt your dream all failed, while Lyrenzia managed to come into existence. Think about it.
>
In the end, the public is just a fickle sour people. If there are so few guild leaders left that Lyrenzia has stopped functioning now, then obviously the scales could have easily tipped the way of the pubilc elected councilors in any decision if you elected more of them. Potential election candidates right now could have already been working together instead of wasting time squabbling right now trying to start again. You had plenty of chances to elect many representitives into Lyrenzia to do what you want by now, but you didn't do it, because you're a sour fickle people who was just still feeling sore from not being able to get a say in on the Foundation's original formation, even when you had the opportunity to elect your voices afterwards.
Maybe now the Triumvirate has tipped away the scale of power, but you can blame yourselves that you didn't find more public representitives in Lyrenzia when you had the chance. It's like you had 5 out of 10 seats, but you only used 1. Then when the number of available seats go down, all of a sudden you need more than 1, even though you are pretty much still being outnumbered by the same guilds as before, and yet you didn't care enough to use more of the seats back when you had them. Just like the classic tale of an infant who wasn't playing with a toy, but cries when it gets taken away.
In the end, I sympathize with your situation now, but it is still your own doing, and you are still trying to move away in the wrong direction.
At the same time, I understand the Triumvirate's point of view. If the public didn't make use of all their seats in Lyrenzia, what makes them believe that the public will truly use more seats this time around, instead of slowing them down with inactive members, thereby repeating what they said was the problem within Lyrenzia?
I do not necessarily condone the actions of any particular political group during these times. But as I read your self-righteous statements telling of the difference between yourself and Lyrenzia, I see that in the end you are just another self-righteous dreamer, one of many thousands who have come before you, for like them, you have yet to understand a simple point, one that was put forth since the first day of Lyrenzia.
Consider this sequence: You want to give power to the people, but how exactly will this be? Will there be 5 electees? 9? Who's to say? What if I want 7 or 11?
The people will vote and decide the numbers, you answer? Well what makes someone a citizen, as you have asked yourself? If I write on these boards 100 signatures with various forged names, who has the right to say which names are real or not? Who can decide the criteria by which a name is verified as representing a real person? Who has the right to say what criminals or what people from other lands passing by for only 1 day or 1 month can or cannot vote?
Then we will all meet in person to vote, you say? Then who will decide what day, time, and place is best for all? Who is to say who's choice was the official election day? Who has the power and ability to keep track that nobody will vote more than once? And who had the power to say that we must be ruled by majority in the first place?
Why should any person's idea of the people's government be the one that is used instead of anyone else who has their own idea of how the people's government should be?
So you see, it is an endless cycle. For every decision that needs to be made, there exists a criteria for who and how to decide it, which itself needs to be decided in the first place.
You think you can give power to the people, but in order to do that, you would have to have the power to give it, to begin with. And the only way to do that is to take the power into your own hands, just like Lyrenzia did, which would turn you into a hypocrite in order to do what needs to be done.
Maybe you think these specific details are trivial things to you, but they are not, and the taking of power by someone is needed to make those decisions eventually. You can sit and talk all day about the perfect government and equality for all, but coming up with ideas for what the perfect government should be, is a completely different matter from what it takes to set up ANY type of government into place in this world we call Illarion. In the end, you're another person who likes to use self righteous words like freedom, but doesn't realize why Lyrenzia had to come in the way they did and what stopped all the others that came before you and before Lyrenzia.
It's not just a coincidence that thousands before like you who dreamt your dream all failed, while Lyrenzia managed to come into existence. Think about it.
>
In the end, the public is just a fickle sour people. If there are so few guild leaders left that Lyrenzia has stopped functioning now, then obviously the scales could have easily tipped the way of the pubilc elected councilors in any decision if you elected more of them. Potential election candidates right now could have already been working together instead of wasting time squabbling right now trying to start again. You had plenty of chances to elect many representitives into Lyrenzia to do what you want by now, but you didn't do it, because you're a sour fickle people who was just still feeling sore from not being able to get a say in on the Foundation's original formation, even when you had the opportunity to elect your voices afterwards.
Maybe now the Triumvirate has tipped away the scale of power, but you can blame yourselves that you didn't find more public representitives in Lyrenzia when you had the chance. It's like you had 5 out of 10 seats, but you only used 1. Then when the number of available seats go down, all of a sudden you need more than 1, even though you are pretty much still being outnumbered by the same guilds as before, and yet you didn't care enough to use more of the seats back when you had them. Just like the classic tale of an infant who wasn't playing with a toy, but cries when it gets taken away.
In the end, I sympathize with your situation now, but it is still your own doing, and you are still trying to move away in the wrong direction.
At the same time, I understand the Triumvirate's point of view. If the public didn't make use of all their seats in Lyrenzia, what makes them believe that the public will truly use more seats this time around, instead of slowing them down with inactive members, thereby repeating what they said was the problem within Lyrenzia?
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paul laffing
- Posts: 2189
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:01 am
- Location: the place where only completely serious people are allowed
I don't believe that the intent of this organization is to create false "representations" of the people which are run by guilds feeding off the town while not even residing inside of it. This organization wants to give the power back to the People. No longer will the common man, which all of us are, be plagued by any persons that do not have the town's best interest in mind. It will be hard work, but if we all contribute, we can build a better tomorrow. And the best time to begin? Today!
~Paul Laffing~
~Paul Laffing~
As for my opinion, my dear fellow citizens, it is my belief that a government elected by anyone who can hold a pencil is bound to fail.
Popularity or ability to corrupt an election say nothing about a persons ability of rulership. And if we let all the inferior beings populating this town vote for a leader that is supposed to safeguard our town from them and outer enemies, we certainly won't find the achievement very satisfying.
Therefore, I suggest all who see themselves as future leaders should gather and fight each other first in the discipline of solving riddles, then in the art of battle. The one who scored best in both diciplines combined shall be the new leader of our town!
Afterwards, the masses can still elect him some advisors.
What we need is a strong leader who is capable of taking wise actions!
Moyáve
Popularity or ability to corrupt an election say nothing about a persons ability of rulership. And if we let all the inferior beings populating this town vote for a leader that is supposed to safeguard our town from them and outer enemies, we certainly won't find the achievement very satisfying.
Therefore, I suggest all who see themselves as future leaders should gather and fight each other first in the discipline of solving riddles, then in the art of battle. The one who scored best in both diciplines combined shall be the new leader of our town!
Afterwards, the masses can still elect him some advisors.
What we need is a strong leader who is capable of taking wise actions!
Moyáve
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Moirear Sian
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:12 am
To the person who wrote alot but said nothing,
and who did not sign,
Your arguments have no weight, no importance, because you bring no better solution. Obviously, the Prince of Rynal has been taking action; while your long, elaborate text implies that you do nothing and sit around, waiting for a government that appeals better to you.
And therein lies the problem. I assume you are one of the many "people" of Troll's Bane who just follow every whim of the power-hungry, and you think you can just wait for better times. I hate to enlighten you like this, but nothing will happen if you just watch.
Your arguments about false personalities do not hold, as I do not see many of the so-called "citizens" of Lyrenzia in town. To me, any second one of them could be a false personality, as I have never met them. No, they're in their luxury houses, sitting on vast amounts of money, while people like us are in town getting slaughtered by troll attacks, outlaws, or people abusing the laws they supposedly abide to.
You ask many questions, but you are not willing to think constructively, or give answers to them yourself. You encourage in your long, zestless, uninformative text, that people should just sit and wait for better times.
You're lying when you write:
"You had plenty of chances to elect many representitives into Lyrenzia to do what you want by now, but you didn't do it, because you're a sour fickle people who was just still feeling sore from not being able to get a say in on the Foundation's original formation, even when you had the opportunity to elect your voices afterwards."
People like the Prince of Rynal and myself did NOT have the chances. People like YOU had the chances, and did not do anything. Do not go blaming other people for your own failures.
You also wrote:
"At the same time, I understand the Triumvirate's point of view. If the public didn't make use of all their seats in Lyrenzia, what makes them believe that the public will truly use more seats this time around, instead of slowing them down with inactive members, thereby repeating what they said was the problem within Lyrenzia?"
I do not understand your point here either, because it's invalid as well. They simply decided overnight that the Triumvirate was official. There was no questioning of people, no votes passed for this new form of government. I for my part couldn't do anything - I am not even a citizen of Lyrenzia. Then again, the more I discuss about it, the more proud I'm feeling about that fact, as you're a shining example of the imbeciles that can live in it like a parasite. Who are you anyway, you who do not sign but talk like you are one of the most important members in this town's community?
It's not that the public is too slow to react to things - there was nothing given to react to in the first place. The people are dictated by warriors and fear, and we should be further than such barbaric ways. No offense to Lennier and John, but I see warriors in them, not politicians. This is in itself a joke, these two men alone have enough power and people behind them as it is to create fear that could easily surpass a Darlok in his early days, because their intentions are apparently good. By just sitting inactively and doing nothing, like you are trying to insinuate other people to do, dear anonymous writer, you give them more power. Not only that, you write to give those who are already obese in their power even more power; and I'm sure of that, because you bring not one piece or bit of constructive criticism, nor one proposal on how to do this better.
As you seem to favor the current Triumvirate - which is official, regardless of YOUR opinion - and you do not sign your own parchment - I assume you're a snitch who works for them.
If you read Paul Laffing's text above, it really contains the essence of this problem, as well as the solution (the ironic thing though, is that I derive from your text you should understand this - but apparently you don't):
Stop just talking about solutions, and put them into reality. Only hard work will do this. While I'm writing to convince people, anonymous writer, that you decided to waste people's time with alot of nonsense; Laffing and Rynal are doing their best to improve the community of this town as a whole. As myself - not citizen, yet hard-working for a town that has not even given me anything close to a "thanks" for it.
To quote Laffing: "It will be hard work, but if we all contribute, we can build a better tomorrow. And the best time to begin? Today!"
It's all right there.
To Moyáve,
my spite goes out to you, you who judge who is inferior and who is not.
But I do like your idea of challenging potential leaders with riddles. However I fail to see where you need wisdom to solve riddles. Anybody with dark intent and a sharp mind can solve riddles. Wisdom is something else. In any case, I fully agree that political leaders must be capable of taking wise actions.
and who did not sign,
Your arguments have no weight, no importance, because you bring no better solution. Obviously, the Prince of Rynal has been taking action; while your long, elaborate text implies that you do nothing and sit around, waiting for a government that appeals better to you.
And therein lies the problem. I assume you are one of the many "people" of Troll's Bane who just follow every whim of the power-hungry, and you think you can just wait for better times. I hate to enlighten you like this, but nothing will happen if you just watch.
Your arguments about false personalities do not hold, as I do not see many of the so-called "citizens" of Lyrenzia in town. To me, any second one of them could be a false personality, as I have never met them. No, they're in their luxury houses, sitting on vast amounts of money, while people like us are in town getting slaughtered by troll attacks, outlaws, or people abusing the laws they supposedly abide to.
You ask many questions, but you are not willing to think constructively, or give answers to them yourself. You encourage in your long, zestless, uninformative text, that people should just sit and wait for better times.
You're lying when you write:
"You had plenty of chances to elect many representitives into Lyrenzia to do what you want by now, but you didn't do it, because you're a sour fickle people who was just still feeling sore from not being able to get a say in on the Foundation's original formation, even when you had the opportunity to elect your voices afterwards."
People like the Prince of Rynal and myself did NOT have the chances. People like YOU had the chances, and did not do anything. Do not go blaming other people for your own failures.
You also wrote:
"At the same time, I understand the Triumvirate's point of view. If the public didn't make use of all their seats in Lyrenzia, what makes them believe that the public will truly use more seats this time around, instead of slowing them down with inactive members, thereby repeating what they said was the problem within Lyrenzia?"
I do not understand your point here either, because it's invalid as well. They simply decided overnight that the Triumvirate was official. There was no questioning of people, no votes passed for this new form of government. I for my part couldn't do anything - I am not even a citizen of Lyrenzia. Then again, the more I discuss about it, the more proud I'm feeling about that fact, as you're a shining example of the imbeciles that can live in it like a parasite. Who are you anyway, you who do not sign but talk like you are one of the most important members in this town's community?
It's not that the public is too slow to react to things - there was nothing given to react to in the first place. The people are dictated by warriors and fear, and we should be further than such barbaric ways. No offense to Lennier and John, but I see warriors in them, not politicians. This is in itself a joke, these two men alone have enough power and people behind them as it is to create fear that could easily surpass a Darlok in his early days, because their intentions are apparently good. By just sitting inactively and doing nothing, like you are trying to insinuate other people to do, dear anonymous writer, you give them more power. Not only that, you write to give those who are already obese in their power even more power; and I'm sure of that, because you bring not one piece or bit of constructive criticism, nor one proposal on how to do this better.
As you seem to favor the current Triumvirate - which is official, regardless of YOUR opinion - and you do not sign your own parchment - I assume you're a snitch who works for them.
If you read Paul Laffing's text above, it really contains the essence of this problem, as well as the solution (the ironic thing though, is that I derive from your text you should understand this - but apparently you don't):
Stop just talking about solutions, and put them into reality. Only hard work will do this. While I'm writing to convince people, anonymous writer, that you decided to waste people's time with alot of nonsense; Laffing and Rynal are doing their best to improve the community of this town as a whole. As myself - not citizen, yet hard-working for a town that has not even given me anything close to a "thanks" for it.
To quote Laffing: "It will be hard work, but if we all contribute, we can build a better tomorrow. And the best time to begin? Today!"
It's all right there.
To Moyáve,
my spite goes out to you, you who judge who is inferior and who is not.
But I do like your idea of challenging potential leaders with riddles. However I fail to see where you need wisdom to solve riddles. Anybody with dark intent and a sharp mind can solve riddles. Wisdom is something else. In any case, I fully agree that political leaders must be capable of taking wise actions.
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paul laffing
- Posts: 2189
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:01 am
- Location: the place where only completely serious people are allowed
You suggest we roll the dice over who is going to be leader? Leave it up to Nargun? And what will you do when Darlok wins this contest? Any form of government that does not represent the people will eventually... no, inevitably fail! That is why a government is needed that represents every single person, which means no government at all.
This can be achieved with some personal sacrifices. All we need to do is have a common goal, which is to better ourselves and, in turn, better the town and our society as a whole.
~Paul Laffing~
This can be achieved with some personal sacrifices. All we need to do is have a common goal, which is to better ourselves and, in turn, better the town and our society as a whole.
~Paul Laffing~
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Malvita Rynal
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:27 am
- Contact:
Stop the bickering, it gains nothing. This in its own is our entire problem. All of you want your personal ideas and opinions to come to be LAW but what gives anyone the right? It is the populous that matters, each and everyone of us. Those in power, those with sharp minds, those that can work a pen, are they any better than any of you? Would you rather your government be HANDED to you, and you live under it, or would you rather have a say? I propose the idea, of 5 citizens to be the "Rebuilding Commitee" of the area. There are many things that need to be changed, our economy for one. I will not say I want the majority from MY group, that's ignorant. If that were to happen why waste the effort on electing the others, just be a dictator. No, I propose that all the seats be elected. No one group can have more than 1 seat, and there must be set requirements (although no where near as harsh as Lyrenzia's) to hold office. Such as no disciplinary action taken against you, meaning jail time or crimes, no guild affiliation, though this is still up for debate, and each delegate must go up against the tries Moyave spoke of. Though the trial itself would have to be desided on, and much work taken in the future. There is a lot of work to do if we want our own government, it would be easier to be dicatated, but in the end, when all of your rights are stripped from you by the Triumvirate, won't you wish that you had spoken out for the good of yourself and the town?
~Malvita~
~Malvita~
I agree with Moyáve, a leader must be wise and powerful. We cannot protect our town if the weak lead, we cannot build a society if we are not under wise leadership.
Everyone is crying out their 'rights' and where does it get us? No where! We cannot punish criminals because they have these 'rights', we cannot voice our opinions because it opposes someone's 'right'. Let me tell you, this is wrong. Someone should not ask for power, they might as well take it!
Democracy will never work in these small lands, you will never please everyone, you will never please everyone's 'rights'. Let a leader rise, and rule by Monarchy. This is what the Triumvirate has done, they have taken leadership, for it is clear that a lot of citizens here are too plain thick to do it for themselves.
Everyone is crying out their 'rights' and where does it get us? No where! We cannot punish criminals because they have these 'rights', we cannot voice our opinions because it opposes someone's 'right'. Let me tell you, this is wrong. Someone should not ask for power, they might as well take it!
Democracy will never work in these small lands, you will never please everyone, you will never please everyone's 'rights'. Let a leader rise, and rule by Monarchy. This is what the Triumvirate has done, they have taken leadership, for it is clear that a lot of citizens here are too plain thick to do it for themselves.