Poison Color Dye

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:08 pm

I would like to propose the ability to "dye" yellow potions, so as to have them resemble the color of another potion. For assassins, it is difficult for them to kill their target with poison without having to feed it to them, simply because everybody recognizes the color of poison; yellow. It would be fun, for example, to have a chance of having the victim drink it on his own because he was deceived.

However, some people can be able to detect whether it is really poison, or a healing potion. For example, if their perception is above 10, when they click on the poison, it will still read "yellow potion." But if 10 or below, it could say "healing potion" (assuming this is technically possible).

Responses much appreciated.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:27 pm

I don't like this.
Because in a way, you're tricking the person behind the screen.

Padishar Strum · Post by **Padishar Strum** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:51 pm

What a surprise Kasume doesn't like it and seems to think a single sentence, without telling what he means by it, is enough.
This would make assasins more dangerous and deffinetly more successful. It would introduce a more clever assasin then the super warrior that is around now, adding more depth to the character. And people wouldn't accept gifts from strangers like so many do now; would you really accept a few potions from a new bartender at the tavern you've never seen before?

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:42 pm

would you really accept a few potions from a new bartender at the tavern you've never seen before?

Utterly stupid question especially when thinking of these times.

My two sentances speak for themselves. If they really need explanation for you, then perhaps you should read it again and read the rules. How this game works.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:04 pm

It's not tricking the person behind the screen, it seems a natural thing for an assassin to do, putting dye in with the poison, or putting poison in the wine, that sort of thing was common, and makes sence, currently the only way an Assassin can play them game is to have mega combat skills so they can kill a person in one hit, and to do that they need to powergame like crazy, this was is more realistic and fun.

However, it should not be an easy thing to do, or we will get people who give people posioned things for no reason, perhaps these should be given to people by the gm's when they get paid for an assasssination attempt, or else it will just become a way to pk easier.

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:05 pm

Nice idea.
Unfortunately not possible with the current client. But maybe with a future one.

Martin

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:48 pm

Padishar, I'm starting to like you

Also, also, please, I beg, on my knees.

We need a poison that can be used with food. You use a certain poison potion with a piece of food - and the poisoned food doesn't change its look, but changes its qualities. Instead of being a yummy good food, it works like poison and kills you as fast as... well, depend on how much you eat.

Same would actually go for potions. Instead of dying a potion a different color, just use poison on the potion, and make that potion poisonous, keeping its original color. That should be possible with the client, shouldn't it?

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:45 pm

I dont like this proposal at all.
Its practicly useless for the overall game.

How many "assassins" do we have ? One or two.
How many "assassins" do we want ?
With this proposal practicly everybody is suddenly able to be an assassin.
So we dont need the one or two we got before no longer.
You make yourself useless.

This might be a vailid proposal, but should get one of the lowest priorities, there are many more important things to add and change to the actual jobs we got currently.
Afterwards we can think of one or two players who desperatly want to become "assassins".

Actualy poison would be sufficent used when attachable to weapons.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:56 pm

Darlok wrote:Actualy poison would be sufficent used when attachable to weapons.

And that is already planned.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:33 pm

This idea sort of violates the forced RP rule that we have.
If locking characters because they annoy people while a ghost, then certainly this should be considered forcing RP as well.

That's just how I saw it.

Padishar Strum · Post by **Padishar Strum** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:19 pm

How is it forced roleplay Kasume?

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:43 pm

Kasume wrote:I don't like this.
Because in a way, you're tricking the person behind the screen.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:52 pm

No you're not. If you're character doesn't have the stats, then he/she doesn't know it's poison. Just because you don't like the idea of people actually being able to use the yellow potion without forcing people to take it...

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:09 pm

Being deceived isn't forced RP, just as being showered with gold ingots isn't forced RP. Bad things will happen to your character, with or without your consent.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:49 pm

Bloodhearte wrote:Being deceived isn't forced RP, just as being showered with gold ingots isn't forced RP. Bad things will happen to your character, with or without your consent.

And that is forced RP.
Why do you think random attacking isn't allowed? Because it's something bad brought onto other characters without any interaction what so ever.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:59 pm

Forced roleplay:

#me cuts off your head

unForced roleplay

#me gives you a potion

See the difference? You have a chance to either accept the potion, and drink it, or throw it away. Your character just sees this potion as a normal 'healing potion' as well, unless they have some way to test the potion...

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:27 pm

Kasume wrote:
Bloodhearte wrote:Being deceived isn't forced RP, just as being showered with gold ingots isn't forced RP. Bad things will happen to your character, with or without your consent.
And that is forced RP.
Why do you think random attacking isn't allowed? Because it's something bad brought onto other characters without any interaction what so ever.

I don't want to pass myself off as a genius, or anything, but poison involves interaction.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:44 pm

Bloodhearte wrote:
Kasume wrote:
Bloodhearte wrote:Being deceived isn't forced RP, just as being showered with gold ingots isn't forced RP. Bad things will happen to your character, with or without your consent.
And that is forced RP.
Why do you think random attacking isn't allowed? Because it's something bad brought onto other characters without any interaction what so ever.
I don't want to pass myself off as a genius, or anything, but poison involves interaction.

You the person though are not of understanding of what is actually going on in the scene. And that's something you need to know when RPing with someone. Or else RP just simply does not work.

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:01 am

Kasume, what are you talking about?
You are not supposed to understand when someone is poisoning you.

You came out of a battle with ogres, all crippled and wounded, you need a potion, no time to understand. You ask a passerby for a potion, they give it to you, you drink it.

Interaction.

If the passerby is an assassin who was waiting for you all along, it's your own fault for drinking something unknown.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:03 am

Just forget it.
It's quite obvious that no one understands.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:39 am

Actually, I do think I understand your point Kasume - you're saying that if the other person can't play along with being poisoned, it's not good RP.
But according to most people here, including the illarion-staff, if you can do something using technicalities of the game, it is part of the RP. In one of the newbie-forum threads, Damien wrote:

Damien wrote:Wobei man sich in illa nicht verkleiden kann. Da es keine im-Spiel-Möglichkeit des Verstecken-skills gibt, muß man sich dafür taktisch günstig hinter einem Baum oder ähnlichen Dingen positionieren. Es gibt genug Waldgebiete, in denen man das tun kann. Man darf sich NICHT zwecks Flucht in Häuserschatten stellen.

Sian's Translation wrote:Although you can't disguise in illa. As there are no in-game possibilities of hiding/stealth-skill, you have to tactically position yourself well behind a tree or similar things. There are enough forest areas where you can do that. You may NOT stand in the shadows of a house for the sake of escape.

In other words, if someone surprised you with poison, you were dying, and you didn't know how to RP your "poison-death" right, that's your weakness in the RP, not that of the assassin character - I fail to see forced RP in it, when the assassin has the intent and determination ic to kill you with poison. Anything that is made in-game to be used is also used for the RP. And you'll sure as hell notice your health bar decreasing after "drinking something funny"; I don't think it's hard to add 2 plus 2 and realize you were poisoned by someone's drink.
For example, attacking someone via a CTRL-click on the other character is considered forced RP if there is no reason and you did not announce the action via a #me-input.
The possibility of using colors to dye poison into the color of other liquids and beverages, would be an in-game function, and is only forced RP if it's abused, as anything else in this wonderful game (i.e. character account numbers). Which it might be, if/when it's implemented. However, this does not make it forced RP by default.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:22 am

If you are within the bounderies of the technical limitations, it is not forced rp. Attacking someone without #me's is not forced rp, just not very good rp, and killing people for no reason is pk'ing. Forced rp is forcing someone to do something not supported by the client, such as sitting still because you are "tied up". You have to leave it open ended, however in this case it is no matter what, because it is your decision to drink the potion. There is no tricking the person behind the screen, unless of course they are their character, then I suppose yes, except that would not be roleplaying.

Ranger · Post by **Ranger** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:01 pm

I dont see the problem with this, he said "the potion would look like a healing potion but still say 'Yellow Potion' when you put your mouse over it. that would be your mistake for not checking.

Rackere Diplomatre · Post by **Rackere Diplomatre** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:04 am

@Ranger
That would surely be changed, too. But there's another problem.

I have some healing potions in my pocket. An unknown person gives me a new one.
I see it and read it's a healing potion. So I would like to put it to the other ones. What happenes? You can imagine that.

1) It is added to the other ones. What should happen then? Is the first potion deadly, are ALL potions deadly? Is the last potion deadly? What happenes if the victim sells the potion?
2) It doesn't fit the other ones. The victim player sees the trick and throws the potion away.