Char. Creation: Random Attributes

[Bloodhearte]

I propose that the attributes, when a character is made, are randomly selected and cannot be selected manually by the player (I doubt this is technically possible at the time, but it could be something to think about?).

I know, that many of you, will think that this highly restricts the roleplay of a character.

However, when you are born, do you get to choose what you genetically inherit? That's all attributes are, right? This way, if somebody wants to become a mage, they won't focus all of their attributes on the ones that only have to do with magic. Or if they want to be a fighter, they won't focus all of the attributes that only have to do with combat.

Of course, these attributes shouldn't be COMPLETELY random, giving an orc very high intelligence while giving an elf practically none. Depending on the race, the attributes could be set a particular way.

You see, some people even in RL want to be bodybuilders, for example. Although through work, they can eventually get pretty strong. However, due to their genetics, they can't be the BEST or GREAT, but results do show.

This would give both strengths and weaknesses (something uberpower players don't like) to every character.

[Val De Gausse]

I agree totally with bloodehearte, but i know many won't stand some my hopes are low.

[Darlok]

This would be very unsatisfying for the player.
Imagine you want to create a character with special advantages and of course disadvantages, displayed by thier attributes.

You cannot because the attributes are set by random.

All in all it will result into something like:
Create Character
Check Attributes (must be possible when you have no influence)
Dismiss Character if Attibutes do not match your requirements
Create new Character
ect.


However I support your will to specialize the races more.

[Bloodhearte]

I know this sounds a little more cruel, but how about if the attributes can't even be seen by the player?

Attributes shouldn't restrict the role a player wants their character to take. It should only show what they are naturally good at and what they're not, plus a few characteristics.

From my understanding, when you created the character Darlok, you didn't max up all of the fighting attributes just to be a better fighter than everybody else. You created a character that was well rounded, and very real; a little bit of everything, and better than average here and there, like a character should be. But not having maxed up fighting stats didn't stop Darlok from becoming a proficient swordsman, now did it?

(I could be wrong. Excuse me if I'm assuming too much.)

Some guys just aren't born with great strength, great flexibility, an essence/presence that everybody in the room can notice, etc. All they can do is do the best they can, and that's what makes a character real IMO.

[martin]

This is too much realism I think.

As I always say:

Too much realism is not realistic.


Martin

[Azato]

I think, this is a great Idea...

It would lower the PG, not every Player would be a excellent Swordsman or Mage and the Game as such would be more fun, I believe.

[Kasume]

Actually, I like it.

Too many people rig their character's stats to make their character extremely powerful in something.

[Zare]

If the attributes are randomly selected, then that pretty much is forcing the player to roleplay in a certain way. I don't know how many of you roleplay according to your attributes, but I do. If somebody wants to roleplay a weak, but smart and nimble man, it would only be luck if he could, if his attributes were randomly selected

[Gro'bul]

Actually, I like it.

Too many people rig their character's stats to make their character extremely powerful in something.

And they complain about not having any resistance to other things.

[Bloodhearte]

This is too much realism I think.

As I always say:

Too much realism is not realistic.


Martin

Maybe you're right.

In my opinion, it's fun to discover what a character is and isn't good at through experimentation.

On the other hand, it could be very frustrating because you're too busy finding what your good at to fit into a role.

I can't say for sure, I've only been playing about once every few weeks lately.

[Hermie]

To be honest, I think this idea is ridiculous, but that's my opinion.

I want to play a game, play the character I want. We don't chose our own names at birth either, but I'm sure you wouldn't like that much.

Plus we'd have 11 newly requested chars all same race and similar names because people will want to wait to get the char they want. Then there'd be much more fuss with new accounts etc.

[Bloodhearte]

^

Post noted.

I just thought it would simply make the game more diverse. Diversity can be an interesting thing.

[Kincent Nolatri]

I gotta say i dont like this one at all, dont worrie about the characters being super strong witht he stats, they still have to train them,and if they are really strong in one thing.They have to be weak in the others so figure out how to take them down a different way.

Plus I'd really rather pick my own so I can play the Character I dreamed up, not some character randomly given to me.I'd feel like I was rping someone elses char, and I wouldnt know what to act likeqith him ig for the first 3 months

[Bloodhearte]

The Attributes don't make the character. The player does.

The thing is, the player should learn to live with the fact that the character has disadvantages. Apparently, not enough people are honest enough to acknowledge this, so they max their character out in the stats he/she only needs for that profession.

[Fooser]

How about random occupation, random personality, and random dialouge?

[Hermie]

I think that they would all be the offsrping of this random attribute thing, in some way

I agree with you Bloodhearte, it would add diversity. I just think there are too many consequenses and the disadvantages overweigh the good points.

[Gro'bul]

HAH! Ok, lets have two sets of attributes that the players set. Their character's mother and their character's father. Then click generate and it combines the attributes with some randomness and VOILA!!!

[Darlok]

We could also drop the attributes system and use a more complex skill system.

So everybody theoreticly can become everything.
Of course there are limitations.

If you build up your "body skills" your "brain skills" suffer and vice versa.
Combined with a maximum skill number, a maxmimum skill point value linked to the characters rp age and rl age it could be a nice system.

But we already have a working system and I can live with it.

[Val De Gausse]

I thought of that but you can't choose your parents either. It would still be better I suppose

[John Irenicus]

Actually there are many disadvantages in the game right now.
For example someone with low perception wont ever be able to find all the herbs or use a distance weapon. People with low intelligence will never be a mage usw.
And as the time showed, there always came more of these disadvantages in the development of the game.
There always will be disadvantages, why shouldn't the players control them?
You are right, the player makes the char, but I dare to state that the abilities and skills are sometimes very important for the rp and the character, it would not be possible to leave them completely out.

Another problem would be, that the players first would have to get to know to the char, because he doesn't know HOW he actually is. That would take some time, and normally you know yourself quite well.

[Moathia]

A player creates the character to do a specific thing with it, he has made a person who got lucky when born to be good at what the player wants them to do, thats the whole point.

You create a character to role play him as a warior, so you give him the proper stats, randomised stats would be boring, because you might get stuck with stats that mean people can't do what they want, therefore removing the enjoyment factor of being a great warrior, this is fantasy for crying out loud.

It would be different if when you started the game, it you were a new born baby, however you start the game as a fully grown adult, dragon hunter or somthing like that.

[Gro'bul]

Create Character
Check Attributes (must be possible when you have no influence)
Dismiss Character if Attibutes do not match your requirements
Create new Character

People would just remove the whole point of the random att. by doing this. Therefore making it a complete waste of time that could be put to use making diseases and more food items.

[Salvieri]

If this idea is going to be implemented, then we would have to take all the existing characters, and shuffle their stats round as well. But remember, this game isn't about stats, its about roleplay

[Zare]

I have seen several times before in different games, when you start, it asks you several different questions, such as:

You see an old beggar being beaten by a group of thugs. Do you:
a. help him
b. ignore it
c. blah bbah blah, etc.

this is to determine what type of person your character is, to distribute the atributes accordingly. I'm not sure how difficult this would be to create, but it would be random but at the same time, controlled

[Moskher Heszche]

I always found those systems to not only be patronizing to the player, but also to not be the most effective.

The way one answers may be from a different perception on what the question truly means. This becomes even more probable when we have players who speak so many different native languages.

Edited to Add:

However, on the same theme, there was a system that I was working on for a homebrew roleplaying game for a while, and Illarion may have more luck with it than I did.

You built a character using a cascade of templates based on traits of the character.

Every character started with the base template where all stats were, let's say, ten.

Then the player would pick the character's body type(this could be used to have different sprites even among a single race). Their choices were things like slim, tall, short, fat, muscle-bound, and average. If the character picked a muscle-bound character, that template would subtract from his intelligence a few points (not to say that every muscley person is dumb. You could balance out the character with other templates.) and increase his strength and endurance by a few points.

Then after his body type template was added to the character, he would pick his specialty attribute. This added four points to the specialty attribute (intelligence, strength, dextery, etc...) and subtracted one point from two other attributes.

After that, the player would pick his character's class template. If a class relied on a specific attribute a lot, there would be a bonus to that attribute and an equal subtraction from another. Otherwise, there was no change, other than the class template picked starting money and items and also picked what skills a starting character could pick from during character creation(not completely applicable in Illarion).

I tried to balance the starting items and currency out so that classes that would normally be more rich started out with more money and less items, whereas the lower class classes would start out with a large amount of items, but very little currency, giving the upper classes more power over what their money is spent on.

--Mitch.

[Caranthir the great]

Bloodhearthe, why won't you ask a friend to create the character for you if you want suprises?

[Moirear Sian]

I didn't feel like reading through this thread in-depth, rather just state a few opinions and ideas, so sorry if someone mentioned them already.

Imho, it's pointless to add something like to the game.

Why? Because some people would have bad luck occasionally, and get horrible, under-average character stats, while others get outstanding, excellent stats. Then we'd have people making characters and killing them off when they're not happy with the stats. (The mortality/suicide rate on the island would raise rapidly, hehehe).

And if you're thinking of players who have their stats governed too "typically" according to the class they play, you should address this problem with them; although I see no problem in this.

If you're looking for a mage who would make a better fighter, because he's stoutly built and strong, but dumb like hay, you can do that. Because you can choose your stats. If you want to play a fighter who's slow and measly, you can do that. These options offer interesting RP.

I currently only play the character Moirear Sian, and (to not spoil some in-game surprises) he's a rather unusual fighter, stats-wise. It's all up to the player, and how far a player goes with the eternal conflict of "rational VS. interesting" character stats.

Making them random would truly limit things too harshly imho, but if people are interested, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to have a small button that randomizes the stats at character creation for the players.

[Bloodhearte]

Bloodhearthe, why won't you ask a friend to create the character for you if you want suprises?

'Cause nobody else is going to be surprised. So I'll have my thumb up my butt when the other players get free reign, knowing what they're good at.

Edit to add: I don't think some of you are understanding. Attributes not set to favorable occupation would not, I repeat, not prevent your character from taking up the desired role. It's just that, some characters would be better than others, like in any other trade/occupation/whatever you find.

[Caranthir the great]

Maybe we could simply add a secret (& Random!!) "Talent" for certain crafts. This could be partially in line with the attributes (I.e. A near blind person would not get talent for archery.) Perhaps a minimum number of points in some stat would "open" the talent(s) of the particular state to the talent-pool?

Of course, there would have to be a chance to recieve no talent at all.

[Serpardum]

This idea is similar to a text mud I play. You have your base stats, str, int, dex, etc... which you somewhat decide by stating what your most important stat is, then second most, then third most. You never see the number of for your stats but only descriptions such as:
You can carry a great amount. or...
Wow, you can carry an elephant! or...
You can carry very little.

And then there are "aptitudes" for learning.
show aptitude:smithing would tell you something like:
able or
not very good or
excellant, etc..

There are such a huge amount of aptitudes, though, so that you don't kill off a character just because he's a bad miner or smither because he has another 50 or so aptitudes to choose from.

If I want a miner/smith I"ll pick a strong character, a dwarf usually.
If I want a brute I"ll pick a big ogre

But, Ogre's make excellant farmers, for some reason, and with their hugh strenght make excellent miners as well.

It also proves intersting to find out what you're good at in game. You can point the randomness to a certain extent by you race and you 3 main stats (most important, 2nd important and 3rd important) but beyond that it's up to the roll of the dice.

This would probably require a major rewrite of part of the server, however, and this would make illarion more like anohter game, not unique. But maybe some of this idea can be put into play.

Serpardum