Illarion Suggestions -- Making the game worthwhile - Illario

Sariat · Post by **Sariat** » Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:54 pm

Well, first of all, I know this sounds kind of dumb coming from a newbie like myself, but here it goes.

Skills
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Why not have it so that you can train with Skill Points? You'd get them every hour or so, and they'd be randomized (1-3?). You'd only get them if you weren't inactive. Then, you could go to the main place, and learn skills from trainers. And Eventually, skills that used to cost 1 Skill Point to trian would cost 2, then 3, and so on and so fourth. It'd make for a better range of professions.

Some skill ideas:
-----------------------
Fighting - Fighting Skills such as: Hand to Hand, Weapon, etc
Scrounging - It'd make it so that you could scrounge for items (Ore, Coal, Food, Etc)
Thieving - Unoticably Stealing Items from another person
Vanishing- Leaves you invisible for a set amount of seconds
Woodwork, BlackSmithing, etc
Running - Makes it so that you can run away faster

Just some general suggestions.

Houses
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Everybody should be able to build houses, and be able to stock them up with items (Floors, Furniture, etc)

Food
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Food should be NEEDED, so that scroungers would have a good place in the community. You should be able to go hungry and thirsty. Leaving people to have businesses as Taverns, Resturants, hotels, etc.

Rest
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You should have to be tired. So you would have to sleep somewhere (or just to replenish health or something)

In general, I think the game should be more "Player-based". This game has ALOT of potential.

General Suggestions:

Better looking site, better forum.

Here is some good forums:

http://www.dk3.com

Thanks for listening.

Ney'Tara · Post by **Ney'Tara** » Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:02 pm

Okay, since you're posting it here I assume that it's open for critics to respond.

I don't fancy the skill points idea, it would lead to alot more powergaming in the sense that we'd have alot of, probably new people, running around every hour of the day in order to get skill points. And the fact that you only get them so often on a timescale is not very good, as people who have a limited amount of time for the game will not get any results. A useable solution would be a skill bar or a sort of AP system a la Final Fantasy, but the programming may be a long and difficult task.

About your skill ideas, different skills for different weapon is just about pointless if you can express them due to that there's only one avatar for all. Scrounging may yet work, but I'm not too sure of it, but that's just my gut and not a valid argument. Thieving is a bad idea, not because it doesn't fit in the game but because it will totally corrupt the community to the bone. I know some of the counterarguments that I can think of, I know that it fits in the game but it's 100% not advisable to have thieves running around. Look what PK'ing did to the community, now imagine what PK'ers + thieves would do.
Vanishing, in my opinion, would be used..why ? To scare other people or to sneak up on them and beat them up ? Sure, you could sneak up to monsters but..what's the point ? A sneak attack, pfft..like that's needed.
Running, I would've agreed with you on my first day in Illarion. But now, as strange as I think it is, this no-running is bliss, it's very nice that everything goes smooth and relaxed. I know that I probably don't make sense, but I like it as it is.

Houses -- Impossible, too much scripting and all that, I know about buyable houses or the idea of that but at the moment it's just impossible, and I can understand that.

Food -- I don't agree with you not because I think you are wrong, but because of the implications that it would have with the wizards spell and alot of complaints from newbies dying because they are hungry. What I do agree on is that taverns should serve a purpose other than just standing there, being empty all day long. Perhaps there you could sit which could restore HP, steadily of course, and perhaps MP. I know it's not very fair and all, but such a thing would so much boost the chatting and RP-level that I think it's worth it.

Rest -- Could work, I suppose, but need some working out.

Believe me, this is one of the most player-based games that you can expect from these guys who have huge expenses at it and still refuse to charge us money. Don't get me wrong, I would leave the moment I'd need to pay without any doubt in my mind, but they're doing a fine job now. The site and the forum are fine, albeit the site is a bit outdated. Hopefully a new webmaster will solve that.

Yeah, I know I'm a bit of a conservatist.

Bye

Ney'Tara

Sir Turquine · Post by **Sir Turquine** » Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:02 pm

The food idea is good in that it would provide more jobs for people. Unfortunately it would create too many problems. I don't know it you've ever played a game where this feature was implemented, but it gets old real fast. every 20 - 30 minutes you get a little message saying "you are hungry" or "you are thirsty." It's not just a one time message either, it's constantly repeated and becomes very annoying. If you don't eat you die. Quickly. "It doesn't have to be done that way" you say. No it doesn't. But however it is done, it will be annoying. Imagine fighting a demon and you suddenly start to get "you are hungry" messages. Rather out of place don't you think. In a serious fight, most people tend to forget stuff like that in the heat of the moment. Besides this can all be done through role-play. An in game system could be beneficial I suppose but it's not neccessary.
As far as houses go, there's already a post where bror has explained it all.
Don't you rest when you log off? Resting in game would just be a waste of time. It would be nice to be able to recharge your health and mana when offline however so I can be ready to go hunting again the next day without having to buy a health potion or eat food and wait. Maybe require beds. Some of the players with a lot of money could set up a hotel and rent rooms. It's a thought anyways.
For skills, I like it the way it is. It works and it makes sense. You can't get better than that. The only thing I would like to change is how you learn to make different items. Since everybody seems to be a miner, I'll use that as an example. After making 200 daggers and selling them to Eliza a person will undoubtedly be a better smith. But will making 200+ daggers teach him how to make a knights shield. No. He should be required to find some one to teach him how to do that. This teahing wouldn't raise his skill any, just add the option of knight shield. He would, of course, have to pay for this service. Pay A LOT for ths service. A convenient book or two could be added to the library that would teach you how to smith something for those who actually go there to read. But just because he had the option of smithing a knight's shield on his screen, that doesn't mean he can accomplish it. It just means he knows how he should try. If he has only smithed about 200 daggers then his chance of actually smithing a knights shield should be 0, or even negative ( I don't know how this works in the game.)
BTW about your title, it's already worth playing if you role-play. All the rest are just extras.

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:22 pm

80% of these ideas have been suggested before, the reviews by the other two explain some of the pros and cons heres mine
Houses: will be implemented...although WILL COST MONEY
Thieving: was orignally planned, but probably taken out due to bad RPErs and PKers, maybe after email account?
Rest: very good indeed, but a ruby ring or to replenish health also in a similar effect.

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 2:41 am

Ok, but the stamina idea, i.e the tiredness, eating things got me thinking. Maybe we could get a stamina bar, that say running would diminish it or fighting or something, And when you eat it replenishes, kinda like the health meter execpt this is more like energy in every day life instead of just health....

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 3:17 am

oh I get it, like a green bar which represents, speed and strengh over overal pain and sffeering...great idea seth!

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 5:35 am

thanks, i wasn't really thinking suffering....just more along the lines of a general stamina bar. I think not moving would slowly restore stamina, and fighting would lower it slowly and such, because it isn't to relastic to sit with two sheilds on and endlessly kill demons because they can't hit you there's no need to stop, but the lower your stamina gets the worse you get at fighting, e.i you start to get hit easier, and to restore it you need to take a break and eat something, and then there could be a new starting stat called endurance, and if you put lots of points into it your stamina goes down slower. Or it doesn't have to be a starting stat, it could just be a skill under fighting skills or someithng...

Sariat · Post by **Sariat** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 7:00 am

"Believe me, this is one of the most player-based games that you can expect from these guys who have huge expenses at it and still refuse to charge us money. Don't get me wrong, I would leave the moment I'd need to pay without any doubt in my mind, but they're doing a fine job now. " -- Nay'Tera

No its not. Hedgerow Hall is.

http://www.digitalbyond.org/hrh/phpBB2/index.php

That's the HRH (Hedgerow Hall forum)

And you can play it/other games like it at BYOND (See the link in my sig)

They used that exact same system. Its very successful.

Caranthir the great · Sat Aug 17, 2002 12:48 pm

Oh.

Thank you for that enlighting opinion, Sariat.
I am sure, that you must think with all your two days of experience of illarion you know everything, and therefore are allowed to say that Illarion is not doing well.

Think again.

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 4:25 pm

He didn't say Illarion was doing bad...all he said was that game that uses the same system as illarion is very successful....

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 6:50 pm

"..but they're doing a fine job now"

"No its not. Hedgerow Hall is. "

Hmm?

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 7:55 pm

Sariat, if you want to make posts about how to make illarion MORE LIKE other games, go to the others games......and stop saying bad things about orcs, or I will kill you again.

Ney'Tara · Post by **Ney'Tara** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 8:09 pm

That's idiotic, Mannelig, the Proposal Board is for suggestions of people to improve the game. Therefore we have to admitt the game isn't perfect before attempting to improve it, besides that the 'If you don't like the game then leave' argument is just horrible..

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 8:49 pm

100s of times people come to the board, hundreds of times they say make illarion open source, we want player houses we want this we want that.....its wasting my time. now this dude come shere with a link to another game in his board account, and how he likes it and some other game I have never herd of.
SMARTEN UP! illarion is still in beta testing, if you do not like it as it is now and want to make a proposel, read others before you leap hea don into a whole list -1 of proposels thatw ere suggested before.

Sariat · Post by **Sariat** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 9:39 pm

""..but they're doing a fine job now"

"No its not. Hedgerow Hall is. "

Hmm? " - Some dude

I meant, Hedgerow Hall is a successful player-based game.

Caranthir the great · Sat Aug 17, 2002 10:33 pm

"No its not."

And what was this to do with the matter?

Explain this, please.

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 11:59 pm

yes, explain.

Ishans Schatten · Post by **Ishans Schatten** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 4:17 pm

Back to Topic.

skills:

i dont like this idea, the skill system that illarion use in the moment is very good, perhaps in a later version come trainer but this not in the near future i think

skills 2:

the most of you suggested skills are allready existing, like blacksmithing...
or are allready suggested

houses:

perhaps in the later client, only for guilds or groups of people, and will cost lot of money

food:

allready sugessted

rest:

you can play so, that your char lay down to sleep if you leave the game, a lot player do this.

general:

the side is allready in work

stamina:

allready suggested

@ mannelig

"and stop saying bad things about orcs, or I will kill you again. "
if you kill him for postings on the proposal board you brake the rules becouse its an ooc board you char cant read it

"100s of times people come to the board, hundreds of times they say make illarion open source, we want player houses we want this we want that.....its wasting my time."
and 100 of times you start your damn enerving discusions(most with this messanger guy) or bothering player. This is wasting our time!

"if you want to make posts about how to make illarion MORE LIKE other games, go to the others games......"
many suggestions and ideas come from other games, and a lot of these ideas are realy good!

"oh I get it, like a green bar which represents, speed and strengh over overal pain and sffeering...great idea seth!"
If you read the boards you would know that this is already suggested before, pehaps YOU should read before post!!!

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 6:31 pm

@ Ishans,
he was running around calling all orcs dirty thieves in the game, and I'de rather not take it to the RPG board.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:23 pm

@Mannelig:

Umm.. okay. His character thinks that all orcs are dirty thieves. I don't see anything against the rules with that, unless he was doing it OOC. That's IMO.

When I used to RP in Diablo I used to have a human warrior who hated rogues. Too many arrows in the back. He would run around and hide all the bows that droped so the rogues couldn't shoot him with them. And on the off chance he did allow any rogues to hunt with him he made them use a sword.

I really don't see your point, Mannelig. Racial hate can be RP, as long as you realize it's not real.

Ishans Schatten · Post by **Ishans Schatten** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 12:59 am

@ Serpardum

i doesnt say anything again the char who runs around (in the game) and cry all orcs are dirty thieves. If he think its a bright idee he will have many fun

.

I said only that Manneligs Players said things again a char on an ooc Board. This is a board that only the player read not the chars.
If the char manneling want to say annything again thes Char who shout things against orcs he have to post it on the Rpg Board or say it in the Game.

Sariat · Post by **Sariat** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:26 pm

"
"No its not."

And what was this to do with the matter?

Explain this, please.
"

-Some other guy..

I meant that, "somebody" said that Illarion is about the most successful player-based game there is right now. And I said

"No its not, Hedgerow Hall is."

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 3:08 am

I dont get it, please fill me in, Every thing about illarion is put down by Sariat, first he begins with Byond.....A really craptacular game, then starts with games I havent even heard off, and never will again.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:10 am

You know Mannelig, I think I agree with you. Sariat comes in here, acting as though he is above all of us since he plays some "craptacular" (nice word

) game called BYOND...then spouts off randomly about some crazy-ass game that no one's ever heard of. Its true that this is the proposal board...but Sariat's post sounds more like a dis on Illarion and how there are other free games out there that are "better"

Sariat, I know this is the most annoying cliche in the history of cliches....but if you don't like it, then leave. You do not have the right to come in our game and complain about how other games are better.

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:27 am

Craptacular...hehe!
I like it Cain!
But, you do have a point, he can like it or lump it.

Kalypse · Post by **Kalypse** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:11 pm

All right, here is my opinion Sariat, and I hope you don´t take this the wrong way... every game that is based on the idea of roleplaying like Illarion is depends mostly on the people who play it, therefore if you don´t like Illarion the problem is not with the game, it is with you. I should say that I have been through many games and Illarion is the one that caught me... It may not have the best structure as you might be thinking, but it does have A LOT and more than enough to be playable and enjoyable, otherwise I wouldn´t have been here so long. So I should say again that if you don´t like Illarion, leave and go play whatever you feel like.
There´s a saying here that is more or less like this: "if you can´t help, don´t disturb!"

mannelig_ · Post by **mannelig_** » Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:51 pm

wow, i did something that people enjoyed for once....
anyways, I think sariats either got the point and left, or just stays away from us now:)

Fulige G Harifoot · Post by **Fulige G Harifoot** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:30 am

I wanna be a Dawgie!!! so i can bite people without looking suspiciouse... Thats my suggestion.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:41 am

Hey Fulige! What's up? Have you been around this whole time? Or have you just been avoiding the town like most other people?

About your suggestion...I dont think the gods can make you into a doggie for that reason...

You know who,

Fulige G Harifoot · Post by **Fulige G Harifoot** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 3:43 am

Of course, if it was a competition it, just might, be a little better than my awnser