Starting Options - For new characters

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 6:32 am

As the game works right now, it is almost manditory for a new character to begin by smithing. Unless they get help from other people, this is the only thing they can do, since they only start with a shovel and hammer. My proposal is, that the new characters also start with an axe, saw, sickle, and needle/thread (really there should be some way to make thread, but that has nothing to do with this proposal). This would allow some variation in the occupations of the new players. So under conditions where there were only a few new characters online, some would make blacksmithing items, some would make tailored items, and some would carpenter items, so they would trade and end up with everything they want. In my opinion, that is how a good roleplaying game should work. The end.

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 6:43 am

Ok, first off astral, there IS a way to make thread

and secondly just to expand his idea, i think that there should be another pull down menu in the char creation screen where you pick your starting occupation (like Runescape) you can pick say smith, lumberjack, tailor ect. that would effect your starting items...

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:03 am

I had mentioned that in my rambling post, but I can say it again here. Here it goes:

When you create a character, you can select from four options, Warrior, Mage, Druid, or Craftsman. Your choice would influence the level of expertise you could get at certain skills. For example, a mage would be able to excel at magic and get the skills high, but at craftsmanship he would only be able to achieve a low skill level. A warrior could learn magic and potion making, but only at a very low level. I think it seems realistic, so you can't master everything, but you can learn everything at a low level. This would also influence the things you start with. A warrior would start with a weak sword and armour. A mage would start with a basic spell (maybe mes pen or ra pen). A druid would start with a potion recipe (healing potion) and a few bottles and herbs. A craftsman would start with a shovel, hammer, needle, axe, saw, etc.

I realize that it could be split into different kinds of craftsman, but I don't think it is necessary to go that far just yet.

@Seth:
How do you make thread then?

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:09 am

oh sorry, did i just repeat what you had said, didn't mean to, oh well now it's clearer and people are sure not to miss it

well telling you how to make thread would just cheat you out of the fun of you finding out on your own, but i know the first person you walk into in illarion(provided he's not a newb) will tell you how to make thread if you ask....i'd rather you do it that way so i wouldn't be announcing it to everyone in case they wanted to figure out for themselves...

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:16 am

I really did want to repeat it, it was quite unclear in my rambling post... I guess I will just have to find out the way to make thread your way then

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 10:39 am

All well and good, but I don't believe that classes actually belong in a skill based game. There does seem to be a definate distinction between being a mage and being a druid in the game, you can be one or the other not both, but you can be a fighter/mager or a fighter/druid. And anyone can be a craftsman.

Perhaps rather than saying you can be this or that, make it based on stats. Sure you can be a Fighter/Mage, but you are never going to do great damage with low strength or dex, nor are you going to be a great mage with low int (already in the game with spell limits). Perhaps something the same with being a druid? I don't think that being a druid should be based on Int, the same as a mage is, but maybe a new stat, or an existing one. Willpower sounds good.

So, I can make a fighter/mage/druid but he's gonna be the weakest wimp in the game, not able to do anything real well. This doesn't put artifical class limitations on skills, just stat limitations.

I was thinking about how some games say mages can't use iron, etc.. but I had rented The Fellowship of the Rings tonight, and there was Gandolf swinging at goblins with a sword. Not even a dagger mind you.

Perhaps a craft should be chosen though, and that we can only become masters in one skill, whichever one we choose. Perhaps we can get 2/3 of the way in other skills with a much reduced rate increase, but have the characters start out with the proper tools for the jobs.

And why can't we make thread with wool? We can even weave it.

Incidently, I think this game is on the right track, even though I'm a noob.

Serpardum

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 10:57 pm

Here's some more details. A mage can get very strong at magic, and he can learn the other three classes of skills, but not very well. This is jut like your Lord of the Rings, mages can use swords, but not very well. Gandalf could not use the sword as well as a full fighter like Aragorn. The class you choose dictates the maximum of points you can put towards an attribute. Mages would only be able to put a max of ten to strength and other fighting related attributes. Knights would only be able to put a max of 10 points to intellect. It sounds strange how a mage can learn druid skills, but once again, only to a small extent. They couldn't make potions very well at all. Warriors could use some magic, but not as a substitute to their fighting skills. Craftsmen could fight, but not very well once again. I don't agree that anyone should be able to become a craftsman. About being a fighter, mage and druid, you could be all four even, but you can only excel at one of them. So no, if you chose knight and learned the other three arts a bit as well, you would not be the weakest wimp in the game. Choosing an individual craft is way too big of a leap from being able to do absolutely everything. It would be realistic, but it would quadruple the complications. We would have to split mages up into the three elements, warriors to each weapon, druids to each category. Way too much complication for now. Four classes will satisfy the game for now. And if the game was just as they wanted it, they wouldn't have a proposal board.

(Edited by Astral at 3:58 pm on Aug. 10, 2002)

Mannelig · Post by **Mannelig** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 11:48 pm

ANYTHING like runescape is a stupid idea, mor epeople come to clones, more lcones are made...more people go there....after illarion dies they will goto maybe a game called Forscape

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:04 am

I have never heard of Runescape until I played this game, and just looked at the web site, screen shots, doesn' t look like my cup of tea, especially with everything saying how bad it is.

So, consider everything I say as not coming from Runescape since I never played it.

Serpardum

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 9:21 pm

I have never played Runescape, but this system that I propose is like the one I know from Astonia 3, and my overall impression of that game is great. Their system works very well, even if some people call it a "clone". What Runescape looks like in screenshots is not the debate.

Anyways, I don't think that Illarion will ever be a clone unless very big changes are made. There are hundreds of things that make it no clone, not just their class system.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 10:40 pm

I must ask this question....

How the hell is a mage or druid gonna be able to earn enough money to buy books if he/she cant craft anything to sell ?!

a very confused and nervous vortex

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:05 am

Mages and Druids can do SOME craftsmanship, as I stated, but can't excel at it. People don't need to max the craftsmanship skill to get enough money to buy some spells or herb recipes.

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 5:14 am

It sounds like a great idea to me. Although it would be tough to choose it might create a diverstity of characters from the same person. This would be a good thing as long as they separate their characters.

Mannelig · Post by **Mannelig** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 4:07 pm

just a little off topic here, Roke what times are you meeting anyone whose good that would make you think in your right mind that illa is changing for the better? I understand there are new ones who are nice roleplayers and such.........but almost every time of day something goes horribly aray, if you've found a time where all is fine let me know please.

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 1:05 am

I can only see one problem with this system. Many people who are totally new to Illairon will not know what to pick but that would just mean them having to have a "test" character. (Mannelig what do you mean? I didn't mention anything like that in my post)

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:54 am

(hint: it was in your signature)

About people not knowing what they will be: I think that the tutorial sort of explains that, but I admit that most people do not want to read a 20 page tutorial before they play. My solution is to prepare a small program designed to show people the highlights of each class and possibly the downsides. It would be maybe a two minute walkthrough about the basics of the game. It could also teach people some roleplaying basics. It would be available for download seperate from the game, possibly in the download section under the main game download with something like "Essential for new players" written beside it. Then hopefully people will think of what suits them and then create a character accordingly. It would also boost the roleplaying environment. I could make a prototype demo (with a few other people), if anyone is interested in seeing this idea through.

Inioch Hope · Post by **Inioch Hope** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:04 am

I like your ideas Astral they are very well thought out. I belive that if the creaters ever deside to try out this idea that it would be a big success. I also like your tutorial idea and am willing to lend a hand if you need one.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:51 am

A tutorial program would be great. Kinda hard to stay in RP when keep getting asked, "How do I mine?" "How do I blacksmith?" "How do I buy something?" And, yes, I did that a little when I entered the game, although someone told me to read the help and I said what help? In my game directory, thanks. Went it read it.

If it was mandatory for a game turtorial (noobie area?) then it would a lot easer on everyone.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:35 pm

I have made a short intro, I posted it on the main board, and concerns or comments about it should go there. Comments on the starting options proposal stay here.

Evermore · Post by **Evermore** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:47 pm

I really dont like the idea of not beign able to become a mage with a master blacksmit/miner/lumberjack/carpentry skills because thats how I made all my money and i personally would not like to be unable to smith my own firesword or plate armor or carve my own crossbow or battle staff!.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:58 pm

But understand that nobody in real life can be a master of everything.
If you can't make everything yourself you can buy it, that way the economy of Illarion would finally begin to ... ahem ... exist.
I had the idea that, the better you become in one craftsman skill, the less the others would rise. As soon as you reach mastership of one skill, the others wouldn't rise anymore at all. So people wouldn't run around being masters of all crafts and making everything themself and start buying stuff they need.