Pure casters need to make money. - Can't without skills

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:01 pm

I decided to make a pure caster. High int, etc.., almost no str, dex, etc... And elf, of course, and my whole idea was to make him a pure caster, no skills. Just magic.

Yeah, right. I start with a shovel, a hammer and pants. Well, dang, none of these do anythign for me being a caster. Need to get runes, so study in the library. Hmm.. still need runes, have to buy them. 200 gold. Okay.. ummm.. how to make gold when I can't cast a single spell. Dang.

So I take up fishing. If I"m lucky I get 1 fish each 5th time. Fish sell for 1 gold each, so this is gonig to take me... forever. Did that for a while anyway, and amased a fortune of 32 gold. This aint' gonna work. Okay, pheasantry, that's not really a craft skill. So I plant some cabbages I bought with my 32 gold. 20 minutes later after standing around with no one to talk to guarding my crops and fishing a little more I dont' have the strength to take all my cabbage to market. So I quickly make 2 runs. Got a bit of gold, 72 total or so now. Hmm.. that was boring as all get out.

With a lot of patience, I finally got 200 gold, and bought a rune, ra. Okay, now to kill somethign to get money... after a few deaths, dang, can't kill the mummies. Ahh, if I hunt them trhough the window I can. with my little spell that takes 10+ successful casts to kill them I kill them, kill another, see some stuff drop, oh good, kill some more, and more spawn up. Well, dang. No way I can get to the items to sell.

So I tried beign a tailor. Seemed like an hour to kill 4 sheep to get wool. buy 4 thread for 2 gold each (can't get to the guts to make thread). wind up with 2 cloaks and 2 pants to sell, cloaks sell for 2 each (no gain there), pants for 4 each. Okay, so I made 4 gold on that. Coulda made 8. Hmm... hour to kill sheep, 2 gold each pair of pants profit, oh heck no.

So, I sigh, wander over to the mountain, ask for a shovel and hammer and start mining for gems. The thing I didn't want to do, be a miner/blacksmith.

I think the other option I didn't try was glass blowing (need to mine for that), and herb collecting. I haven't tried selling herbs to the store, though, so don't know if that actually works.

I was summoning food, and could sell that, but that takes a long time too, and seemed too much like powergaming to me for my taste. Okay, so how can a pure caster have something to do to make money?

The problem is, pure casters, like mean, have next to no defense with extremly low strengh. Maybe mobs that drop loot that can actually be collected. Low level mobs, but dropping something of value. Poeple are already mining to make money fast, so I don't see why not. A few times mining, make daggers, sell for 2 gold each, can make money relatively fast. There should be some other money making item that doesn't require crafting/mining. I asked around, and everyone said to mine. Perhaps have farming make more profit? Or go faster?

Perhaps give mages a low level spell to extract gems from the mountain without having to mine? Even with the same success rate as mining and getting gems. At least I wouldn't be mining <g>

It's hard to role play a pure caster mage with a shovel in one hand and a hammer in the other.

Serpardum

Ney'Tara · Post by **Ney'Tara** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:29 pm

Perhaps this is where you need to find people who you can co-operate with. Form a party and head out to dangerous areas to slay monsters and divide the loot, or have a sturdy dwarf mine you the minerals in return for something magical, or something you tailered. Otherwise, I don't see another option.

Chyan Guo Messenger · Post by **Chyan Guo Messenger** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 1:32 pm

just because your a pure caster doesnt mean you cant get a job.

try that one.

:):)

Elladan · Post by **Elladan** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 4:23 pm

dont kill the sheeps, shear it. you only use a scissors. you can make much wool with it.

Chyan Guo Messenger · Post by **Chyan Guo Messenger** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:07 pm

to shear, hold a sissor, somewhere in your pack, and just use the sheep, shift- then click on the sheep and release......

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:48 pm

How are you supposed to tailor something for a "sturdy dwarf" without any money? Or give him something magical when you can't cast magic? I don't think that you should have to take on a second occupation before you can become a mage (you don't have to to become a warrior), but most people in Illarion have multiple occupations, the system works like this. For now, you will just have to mine and smith coal to buy runes.

Ellaron · Post by **Ellaron** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 2:54 am

Unless you are going to be a warrior with no weapons or armour, you do have to work to make gold to buy your equipment. The same applies to druids. So why shouldn't it apply to mages? You seem to want to get to your maximum potential in no time at all which is not what the games about. Take your time. Interact with those around you. You may not get to be all powerfull any quicker but it will seem like it. Use the time to build your character.

Mannelig · Post by **Mannelig** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 2:56 am

My character plays one whose been around the world, an easy way to make money is sell items you find on the ground, you would be amazed at who wants to by some herbs from Arcana these days....

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 4:31 am

I think Ellaron has the right point. Casting spells isn't a job or something that makes money, so if you want to learn magic you're going to have to take up a job to pay for your tuition right? But serpardum's idea is right that when everyone starts out with only a shovel and hammer, how can you expect them not to turn out mining or blacksmithing? Getting what you need to do other craftmanships all require tools or money that you don't have unless you go look for charity. Also blacksmithing is just made too appealing compared to many other crafts. If you blacksmith you make money quick and you get weapons and armor (which most people seem to be interested in for obvious reasons), while other crafts don't make much money or produce rather not so useful items, so how can you not expect the majority of people to not take up blacksmithing? Especially now that grain, cabbage seeds, and thread are all 2 gold each, the profit from these crafts are cut in half, making things like tailoring and peasantry less attractive than it used to be.

In order to help make more people take up other crafts instead of blacksmithing, I suggest making the price of some products worth more to Eliza, such as increasing cakes and leather armor to 10 gold.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 6:25 am

I think it would be more realistic if you found all the herb recipes and runes in the library and just had to take time to learn them, but it would never happen because people would just abuse it. But having different job opportunities at the beginning is a good suggestion. Right now, almost everyone is a blacksmith at the beginning. This is why most blacksmiths make little money from other players. I find it a bit strange that the shop sells level 1 blacksmithing things, since you have to make those items to get the money to buy them. Kinda pointless. But that is not the point. Maybe starting off with a needle and some thread might not be such a bad idea. It seems odd for newcomers to have a needle and thread, but it is also strange to start with a shovel and hammer if you think about it. It would be nice if during the character creation you chose from either warrior, druid, mage, or craftsman. If you choose warrior, you may start with some weak armour and a weak sword. Mages would start with a basic spell. Druids would start with a basic potion recipe. Craftsmen would start with shovel and hammer. I think this would solve quite a few problems, but that would require catogorizing all the existing players (Quite an exhausting task). Different classes would have some skills that others cannot learn, and have some that others can learn and they can't. If anyone has ever played Astonia III, you know what I mean. Their system works quite well if you ask me. Or maybe the other classes could learn the other classes' skills, but not go very far with them. Or maybe I should've started a new topic. Or maybe I am rambling on and on without thinking.

Bye.

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 6:39 am

well i know in fantasy books and such, magic is a profession, but there were downsides about how hard it is, and obviously very difficult to learn as very very few people were mages. Considering most people are mages in illarion, magic doesn't seem so much like a profession anymore, it seems more like a hobby.

Caranthir the great · Sat Aug 10, 2002 12:20 pm

Dyluck, there is a way to make thread for free, well cost free, that is.

I don't like the idea of class system, cause that would cause every new player to pick, yes, warrior or mage.
Who would want to be "boring" craftsman or a druid?
Basically I like the idea about getting different stuff, which would be choose-able.
Would I take Hammer & shovel or Needle & some cloth or perhaps an axe & saw?
what about future thiefs and kind like that?

And this "I am a 100% mage and i can't work for my money beceause of that" topic is silly.
You said it by yourself, you are a pure caster, that makes money earing a bit difficult, but hey, your choise.
It's like making a thief character and starting to complain when no-one drops thirty silvers on the ground before your very nose in the first two hours of playing.

Kalypse · Post by **Kalypse** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 2:31 pm

I´m not sure what to think... I´m a mage and of course I would like if there were some spells that could easy the roleplaying as a mage. For example... I am having problems on how to roleplay with most offensive spells, considering that I´m a peaceful mage, so mostly I just use healing... I am still not sure if I can really be considered a mage... anyway, that´s not my point.
Caranthir, maybe you are right about most people chosing warrior/mage, but that is only because most people are used to killing monsters/survival kind of game... I understand that the idea of this game is that it´s not supposed to happen, so maybe it´s not a bad idea to give other choices and perhaps even make them look more attractive.. I am also not sure of how to do this without making people chose it just because they can make more money as a merchant, for example... This whole thing is just too complicated... I think the game has the best intentions and more choices certainly would open up more interaction... I am just afraid of what kind of interaction to expect... We can´t just expect the game to be the best if people do not cooperate. We can´t have a good roleplaying game if everyone just think about money/power/competition and of course, I´m not saying that everyone has to be a peasant... What we need is just something to help people understand that the differences are what makes the world funnier... If everyone is strong, what´s the meaning of protection?? If everyone is rich, what´s the meaning of helping others grow? If everyone is happy, how can others have the chance to cheer you up?
Maybe we do need to review what the game provides us, but not just so we can HAVE more things... I think we just need something that could make us live different situations... for example... I have been to a concert once and all that people did was to call for beer and threaten each other. Well, not the best of the reactions and although threatening is usual to see at least they had the chance to choose how they would behave in a concert. As another example... the last few days made me more attracted to the game because my friends put aside their duties for just chatting and laughing, together with some unusual situations I have been through..hehe
Without that the game seems like just another bunch of stuff you can have. I mean, not even real life is like that! Anyway... this is just my humble opinion...

Chyan Guo Messenger · Post by **Chyan Guo Messenger** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 5:31 pm

-good point Kalypse, if one wants a bunch of weapons and armor to kill monsters, take up diablo or other RPGs that exist for Nintendo, Playstation, or CD-ROMs out there. Internet is there the world connects and interacts with each other, a way of sharing thoughts and opinions, news and comments through even if its a game. Its the Interaction, one of the elements that makes a game enjoyable...

-as for killing, a man who is attacked will defend himself, that is why weapons, armor and attack skills are availible, a wood cutters in the forest will have to worry about wolves and bears... though currently they dont exist ect... but you get the point. You dont get exp or anything from fighting, there is a "skill line" but that is only a estimate of how well you do something, and it doesnt mean you get +100 points for attack ect.. you can obviously still fall to your knees in battle.

-want class systems? might as well ad in slavery, corruption, religious restrictions, and turn this game into real life problems eh.......?

-Magic/Magecraft is not a proffession, more of a hobby ect.... Like i said, it doesnt mean a mage cant get a JOB, but your interresting in the skill of magics, that is all.

Ellaron · Post by **Ellaron** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:24 pm

Just as an aside, merchants dont all make lots of money. I use my character to buy things from other players so they have a reason to make it. I end up buying alot more than I sell, plus I have to buy high, say fireswords at between 150 to 200 gold only to have to sell them to Eliza ( or whatever the shop lizards name is) at about 8 gold a piece. I dont mind as it helps people to role play more. It does mean I have to make my own things occasionally to sell to the lizard just to get some more gold to buy more things. For instance I have to make and sell to the shop over 27 harps to be able to get enough gold to buy one from a player. I also trade alot so people who dont have gold but do have wares can still get somethings that they want.

Chyan Guo Messenger · Post by **Chyan Guo Messenger** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:55 pm

viking helmet, 48 gold to buy from the store.

viking helmet, cost 1 iron ore and 1 coal to make and its very easily made eventually soon enough..

see the problem?

its so easy to make its values of 48 gold is throw out the window....why buy from one if its so common?

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Aug 10, 2002 9:40 pm

@ Caranthir: I don't consider that an option because you'd have to take up some kind of fighting just to be a tailor.

I don't know what some of you might think casting spells being a "profession" means but I don't see any way that casting spells will make you money unless you work for some noble or lord.

As is my understanding if I remember correctly, the prices of items sold at the shop is meant to serve as making SMACC prices look lower in order to encourage player interaction by having them buy these items from other merchants. I'm not sure if I agree with the effectiveless of this logic though.

Kalypse · Post by **Kalypse** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 12:51 am

I think you missed my point Ellaron... I didn´t say merchants make money... specially cause Teesh is one and I know some of how it works. I myself help him with making some things from time to time... What I meant was that merchants, as the word links, might have more money than others because of what they do, although this doesnt happen in game. I was just sharing my concern on how having more money than others would affect the choices of the newcomers... hmm..... I hope you understood me now... sometimes I get confused with my own words...

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 10:57 pm

So far im agreeing with every post on here (in some form or another)
but one thing i must say is that i dont think the amout you can carry should be due to strength that you use to battle...

being a mage i put my intel up full and now i can carry basically nothing !!

P.S. i also think that druids get it alot easier than mages..

they dont have to put all there points on intel so they can do other things where as mages have to do there intel so they get stuck witheverything else crappy !!

P.P.S. I dont think its fair how mages rely on druids so much for mana. mages should have a spell that can bump there mana back up like..eg osmose of FFX

James · Post by **James** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 11:19 pm

i see all your points but in the end it was your choice and you can have a mage with high intel and strength

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 3:56 am

Naw, mages are always weak. They should not to be able to carry as much as a fighter/warrior.

Think of a mage as, well, a modern day professor. Would you expect a professor to be able to carry around a few hundred pounds?

Think of a warrior as, well, a body builder. Arnold Swatzineger (sp?), the dude on Triple X, Silvester Stalone. A lot more feasible that they could carry around a few hundred pounds and not even notice.

It's the price you pay, you either train your mind or strength. Or both equally. Your choice.