Skills - one master skill only

Chyan Guo Messenger · Post by **Chyan Guo Messenger** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 5:54 pm

hum... yours didnt turn into a link.....

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 12:59 am

I think this is a great idea. Dont loose faith because its not working, I mean theres only a few people that play like this the greater many just make what they need them selves.

Of course its up to the makers if they want this skill style in the game but I realy think you got it spot on. It makes for good realism and at last we would have an actule ecomany.

You got my vote

Aligatoras · Post by **Aligatoras** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:07 pm

Greetings,
I think the "skills" should be a bit different.

Should be divided in 2 new categories:
a. Gathering skills (mining, farming, fishing, woodcuting, herbing, etc)
b. Crafting skills (Smithing, Goldsmithing, Tailor, etc)

You will be able to master ANY of Gathering skills (even all if you want), but you must DEVOTE to only 1 Crafting skill. Also you can learn all Crafting skills and use em but never be able to pass the 40% of it, only the devotion in 1 skill can let ya master it (100%).
example: you devote at smithing and you can master it but u also want to Tailor too, so you can raise smithing at 100% and tailor maximum at 40% no matter what.

At some point you may want to change between skills which will be the master. You can devote again in new skill but BOTH Skills will drop at 0% (like you begin from start).
example: You are devoted to Smithing (100%) and you wanna be a goldsmith (40%), so you devote again at Goldsmithing but losing both skills and you start again to raise em (both change to 0%).

I wanna read your opinions on that

Ellaron · Post by **Ellaron** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 7:41 pm

Aligatoras, I like your idea of gathering and crafting skills It solves several issues with my system. I can't agree about the 100% / 40% craftskill though. I dont like the returning to 0% when trying to change skill. In my opinion it would be better for the lower to increase as the higher decreases. You dont explain in your post whether you can have more than one skill at 40%. If you can then do they all return to 0%?

Aligatoras · Post by **Aligatoras** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:41 am

hmm, let me be more specific with examples

A Dwarf Druid (?) have the below skills

Smithing 100% he devote to it

<- (only the devoted skill can be mastered)
Goldsmithing 35% he crafts what he founds from mining
Glassmaker 40% he makes empty bottles to use for cheap potions
Tailoring 2% he tryed to see how it works

etc............

As u see at above chart he have 4 skills (maybe more) and he chosed to master the smithing.
One day he wake-up and wanted to master the glassmaker skill the new chart will be like that

Smithing 0% he chosed to leave this and change devotion

Goldsmithing 35% he crafts what he founds from mining
Glassmaker 0% this one can be NEW mastered cause he chosed as new devotion (new skill so it goes from 0%)
Tailoring 2% he tryed to see how it works

etc............

I hope this example be better than older and you understand what i meant

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:27 pm

"Smithing 0% he chosed to leave this and change devotion
Goldsmithing 35% he crafts what he founds from mining
Glassmaker 0% this one can be NEW mastered cause he chosed as new devotion (new skill so it goes from 0%)"

Hmm..
There is one thing, I don't see any logic in person losing all knowledge he already had
in the skill he decided to master.
So the dwarf woke up, decided to be a professional glassblower and at the same moment mystically lost his bottle-making abilities?

Don't get me wrong, I do like the basic idea, but that part seems..well.. Odd, at least.

Tatonka Bearpaw · Post by **Tatonka Bearpaw** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:14 pm

I think it will be like a skillloss. After some time your skills decrease. And when skills raise slower, then you can't keep all skills on masterylevel. So if you're a mastercarpenter and decide to master smithing, you only smith and while this yur carpentery skill decreases and is maybe a few levels down. This goes on and on and on. Maybe only a powergamer could keep them up, but that another topic.

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:33 pm

I think this Idea is in danger of becoming to complicated with this and that and 30% of this and 15.7% of that, or even reverting back to how it aready is in game. . The whole geniouse of the original Idea was that its simple, to the point and from a real life point of view, SPOT ON. Not only that but With a little time (if it was implimented) it would make for a working econamy.

Aligatoras · Post by **Aligatoras** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:42 pm

>>>Hmm..
>>>There is one thing, I don't see any logic in person losing all knowledge he already had
in the skill he decided to master.
>>>So the dwarf woke up, decided to be a professional glassblower and at the same moment >>>mystically lost his bottle-making abilities?

It Should be hard and losing skills when u decide to change em. The reason is simple. Like when you die and losing skills and later is harder to lvl-up again.

If you wanna do it a bit diffent it could be like that (but it ll be unfair) :

A Dwarf Druid (?) have the below skills

Smithing 100% he devote to it

<- (only the devoted skill can be mastered)
Goldsmithing 35% he crafts what he founds from mining
Glassmaker 40% he makes empty bottles to use for cheap potions
Tailoring 2% he tryed to see how it works
etc............

As u see at above chart he have 4 skills (maybe more) and he chosed to master the smithing.
One day he wake-up and wanted to master the glassmaker skill the new chart will be like that

Smithing 40% he chosed to leave this and change devotion
Goldsmithing 35% he crafts what he founds from mining
Glassmaker 40% this one can be NEW mastered cause he chosed as new devotion (new skill so it from where it was and go up to 100%)
Tailoring 2% he tryed to see how it works
etc............

But general my opinion is you should pay a "price" your desicion to change between skills.

Ellaron · Post by **Ellaron** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:29 pm

Aligatoras I still like your idea but I still dont like the total loss of your two chosen skills when changing. I get the idea now of actually picking the skill you want to change to to become a master in. How about a slight variation on the theme. You pick two skills one to go up and one to go down. Eg you are 40% carpenter, 40% tailor and a 70% smithy you decide to master smithing but dont want to lose all of another skill. you select tailoring to go down and smithing to go up. You then work at smithing until you are a 20% tailor then you select capenter to go down and work at smithing until you are a 30% carpenter. You are now 20% tailor, 30% carpenter and 100% smithy. It will have to be worked so that no two skills can ever be 100% at the same time.
@Drathe. Thanks for the support but I like the way this thread is going. It might be that we end up with an unworkable system but we can still fall back to the original idea. The thing is though that through this discussion it might turn a light on in someones head who is developing a similar game. If enough ideas are put forward who knows what we can come up with. Infinite number of monkeys + Infinite number of typewriters = the complete works of shakespeare.

Leonna · Post by **Leonna** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:06 pm

I think Ellaron's idea is good. Of course it is realistic, that you can learn as many things as you want to, but after all it isn't realistic that the oldest and most active ones are masters in every skill while newbies have no skills at all.

A good way of solving this problem would be that when doing character creation, you could distribute 15 "skill points" in all the craftsmanship skills. If you add 5 points to some skill, it will already be average at the start and can reach mastery. If you give 4 points, it can reach the second highest "level" ... and so. The skills with only 1 point wouldn't have the chance to get to the second level... (the starting points could also determine how fast the skill will improve, though that's not so important)

...for roleplay, those with 5 blacksmithing skill starting points could be "sons of master blacksmithes" for example, who had learned the skills in their youth or something like that

And about that realism... mage/druid dividing isn't realistic! It's still much better than everyone being both mages and druids...

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:10 am

This is a very good proposal...
I also think that a character should only be able to MASTER one skill. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that a character can only learn one skill, but that he/she can only MASTER it. A system used for the druidry and magic could be implemented where the first skill you learn is the one you will only be able to master (later on perhaps we could have a checking box when you create your character...different boxes for what main craft you want your character to have, what class you want him to be and so on). Going from this, a character could learn many skills in his/her lifetime, but would only be able to have an "average" skill in any other skill besides the one he/she chose by learning first, which would be the only skill he/she could master ever.
What is defined as "Average" skill? I suggest something like 50% of a master's skill. So a character who was not a master in say blacksmithing could never make knight armor and so forth, but would be able to make things like basic swords with some error.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:32 am

From the Main topic of this thread, I dont like it. It limits the freeness of this game. It would not be fun to have this kind of thing. People would just be bored out of their minds if Illarion would be closer to real life. I know I would be.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:24 am

i didnt read all but the first post so all the skills such as mining/lumberjacking/ect should be under a labor skills tab which could be made from the currently useless "other" tab, maybe one mastered crafstmenship skill? this is good but you should be able to master all others.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:14 am

I like this proposal. As a matter of fact I role play this in my character.

My character is a hunter. I don't waste time digging up ore, making clothes, or grinding gems. I spend my time working on my fighting skill since my character is a hunter.

I take the spoils from killing animals or monsters and sell them to other characters or to Eliza. I then take that money and buy other stuff that I need from other characters.

I bought some leather legs from Elaralith because I am not a tailor.
I bought some healing potions from Verilon (don't remember spelling).
I bought some chain armor from Randelf because I am not a blacksmith.
etc, etc.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:22 am

I thought up a system to restrict learning several skills at once some time ago.
Basically it means that the higher you rise one skill, the slower all other skills raise (this is only for craftmanship skills, it wouldn't work for magic and fightning skills as you need more then one of them) As soon as you mastered one skill, the other skills will no longer raiser at all, or you will loose experience at your master skill when training another skill.

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:37 am

Do I hear Ultima Online here? That is basically how there skill system works. Not saying it's bad or anything though.

What would happen there is once you started getting better at some skill your other skills would go down. So say you mastered animal husbandry. Then started working on blacksmithing. As you got better in blacksmithing your animal husbandry would go down.

We already have skill decay with death, which is pretty much.

I would think of a better way maybe though.

Say the skill you are best at went up fastest (current speed or better). The next skill you were best at woudl go up a little slower. And next one slower, etc..

Until the skill you were just learning would go up real slow if you knew a lot of other skills. This would mean that, eventually, you could master all skills, but it would take forever and a day. But you would still be able to master one to two skills as quick as now.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:54 am

Actually, this is my own thoughts, mixed with proposals made before.
What you were suggesting is basically what I originally thought up, meaning the higher your skills are, the slower the lowest of them raise. You just didn't reduce it to zero when a skill is mastered.
However, it indeed makes sense to have skills (at least "master" skills) drop when you do something else for a long time.
You will never forget how to ride a bike, but you will have a hard time winning the Tour de France after you trained windsurfing for years with the goal of becoming champion there.