Technical Restrictions vs. IC Reality

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:20 pm

Moathia wrote:They basically control the whole island Kasume, so yeah, and before you go whining that Lyernzia has no power out of town, well guess again, Lyrenzia can do what ever they want? What are your chars gonna do, nothing becaus they would get killed by the guars, so you start whining ooc about excelent role play because it discriminates agaist you.

Yeah, because you couldn't just rp killing those guards quietly, I know one person who did that during the ban, he got trappe in town after one of Grants plan went wrong, waitied untill Hagen was back online, Hagen was in the tavern and he was trying to leave by the south gate, so he #me'ed killing the invisible guards by throwing aggers into their backs and bolting, right under Hagen's nose.

That entire post can be argued to be OOC and IC mixing... Technically... Since you like things to be so technical...

Illarion Website wrote: These creatures have gills and flippers and live in sunken citys on the bottom of the ocean, but can also live on the shore. They are strong and full of endurance.

If you can live in a sunken city, I think you can pretty much swim anywhere you like...

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:20 pm

yea i have no idea why my name even got mentioned here Moathia...err confused...yes...anyway, as to this topic the thing is that as much as the points about ig reasoning are valid. for the current situation you were in it really didn't matter how you got there. Lyrenzia makes the rules currently. they found two 'outlaws' up there and the responded however they felt was correct, regardless of reasons given or morales (no offense of course). In order to stop this problem something can only be done IG, because thats what Lyrenzia and the guard are an IG system. thats my thought. okay i'm done here.

Nandus · Post by **Nandus** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:26 pm

Damien wrote:Since swimming is technically impossible, only use "swimming" when walking along the edge of water.

Consider the way around town as too dangerous to swim (reefs, water turbulences, too long distances) as long as swimming is not implemented yet.

Damien wrote:Simply consider the reefs to rip apart the boats *g*

As it seems, you should somehow work out a deal with the town guard.

Dixi. The gamemaster has spoken.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:33 pm

I was only using you as an example of a carpenter Athian, not to worry,

They basically control the whole island Kasume in reply to this

Lyrenzia has one big ass door step then...

(That is disccsuing ingame.

, so yeah, and don't go whining that..... (You know the line)
That was directed to the people who were complianing that Ly in game officially don't have power out of town. ( A spereate ooc point to stop complaints about my post before they start.)

What are your chars gonna do.........discriminantes against you, is also ooc, because that refers to their ooc reactions to anything that the guards do.

The next paragraph was ooc talking about ig, I can technically say your soing the same thing arguing about in game matters ooc, so your technically mixing ooc with ig.

The lizards swiming I have no problem with, however it's the way everyone just swam over, with all they armour, weapons, tools and gold, since they have no depot up there, unless they have been going into town.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:34 pm

#me adds another piece of evidence to his "Conspiracy" folder...

Hahaha soon you shall be overwhelmed

I also mean that even if you can't swim and they catch you north saying you did seems like a pretty good reason.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:41 pm

There are boats in Illarion.

When you walk to the docks of Trollsbane you can take a boat, or ferry, to the little tropical islands, not far away from our main island.

My personal opinion is, that the castle of the Grey Rose should not block or divide the island into two halfs.

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm

I just had to 'rock the boat here' but you say no boat in Illarion Moathia... what about the Illarion based board RP you devised which entailed you and some fellows setting of in a large elven ship?

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:00 am

Diferent, that wasn't a small boat to take people across a tiny little river, that was a proper sea sailing ship, people on't just magically appear here either, they get a boat, most of the time at least, I said there were not boats in game as we have it, not no boats in the game world.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:03 am

Go to the end of the docks in Trollsbane, you will enter a small boat that carries one person to the small islands east of our main island, Moathia.

Try it, it should still work.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:14 am

(some of this is ingame stuff talking about ingame problems mentioned here)

well moathia, no one EVER said ANYTHING about having a problem with us being there, or feeling threatened, or that we are messing up their doorstep, they just wanted them cuz they must've been in town, val and fooser dont want to pass through town, they dont want to be in town, they just want to be up north, and they werent going to go back to town, because i had told them not to go ot town, because that would only cause problems

gaurds haev invisible gaurds, we have invisible boats

northerot had invisble gaurds too, and invisible workers

doesnt lyrenzia have an invisible castle too?

i saw this one guy with an invisble smile!

and one guy said he laughed but i didnt hear it

and one person was looking at something the he wasnt directly facing!!!! was he really looking at it!?!? i dunno, i cant see his face, so apparently he wasnt

Edit:

and their are boats, go look at them whenever you want, oh wait, they are invisible.... hmm..... this is odd... then how am i getting to these islands!?!?!?!? oh my lord!! salathe can fly!

they are using the boat idea and no one is getting hurt, if the gaurd doesnt trust the characters OOC to go through town (since they cant technically take the boat) the town gaurd can escort them through town, then if they come back in town causing trouble and being this horrible threat they are, then throw em in jail

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:41 am

I think that the only way for this problem to be resolved is to stop jumping to conclusions and start trusting the RP of others. All of this sounds like the players of the guards making decisions whether or not their character believes the "outcasts" stories are basing the decisions on far too technical of things.

It is the job of these players (yes, players) of these guards to understand that the roleplay of the outcasts is limited in terms of how they can roleplay getting around the island. As you have your invisible guards (which I am against, but that is not the issue), the opposite end should have a fair balance of how they can roleplay non-technical countermeasures; like boats, or swimming.

I used to roleplay swimming when I played and no one ever seemed to have a problem with it. Its when someone dislikes an idea just because it slightly bends their own perception of roleplaying or when something exceeds their own control that people flip out and make poor-sighted judgment calls, and even worse RPs.

Both sides are saying that each other is using technical reasoning and non-technical reasoning as excuses and both sides are contradicting themselves in their arguments. Yes, technical reasons prevent people from swimming or using small boats (like in rivers or whatever), and yes, it would be likely that there would be many guards around such a town as Troll's Bane, but both sides seem to be struggling to have the advantage clearly on their side, when there needs to be a balance. And the only way there will be a balance is for everyone to step back, take a deep breath, suck down some magic patience pills, and starting trusting the RP of one another with an open mind to roleplaying (like it was in the distant past. Sorry conservatives out there.)

My two cents.

~Cain

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:49 pm

yea it really doesnt make any sense why its so hard to comprehend

and personally i have no problem with the "invisible gaurds"

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:10 am

"Rock the boat"?!

That's just....terrible, Drathe! Don't forget, we also have invisible weather, invisible beds, invisible skies and so forth.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:18 am

and personally i have no problem with the "invisible gaurds"

I do...

And the only people that have a problem with swimming is the gaurds... Just as Cain said... now aint that funny?

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:21 am

Brendan Mason wrote:
Don't forget, we also have invisible skies

We have invisible skies??? #me looks up. Oh my god! The sky is gone!

Heh, anyway. Its all a matter of roleplaying. The way I see it, the players of the town guards need to be understanding that there are ways to roleplay swimming and such a thing is possible. I'm sure not all the town guards are pompous, quick-to-assume jerks, so not all of them should just assume that someone was in town. It seems that happens too often and its too ironic that the guards are the only ones who have a problem with swimming. Of course, the people who are doing these RP actions about swimming should be actively doing them, whether or not there are people around (so they can use log files as proof incase something like this goes OOC again, as it has so many times) and the characters should try as best as possible to be up against the river as much as possible while swimming.

That's my best solution to all these issues..

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:46 am

Maybe if you IMed a few of the guards ahead of time and asked them if it were ok for you to rp swimming (preferabley not in the rivers that go through town) but actually pass through town, there wouldn't have been a problem.

If the guards adamantly refused even after you explained yourself, take it to the GMs and see if they could find a way to get you there. The GMs could, afterall, if you explained yourself well enough, teleport you there.

As for the assumption that they're getting people into the battle through IMs, let's do some thinking about this:

1.] The orcs already explained a reason why they were already on their way.

That lowers the suspects quite a bit.

2.] Gwynnether saw you walking northwards and followed you. You had to look suspicious, although you could have avoided looking suspicious by IMing her and the other guards ahead of time and telling them what you were doing.

That gets rid of another suspect.

3.] A witness claimed that she/he (I don't remember who it was) saw someone (in-game) telling the other guards that Gwynnether followed the players Northwards. Being guards, they went to back to her up.

There's the rest of your suspects.

Why is it that almost every Movement battle had ten bystanders watching the fight (I know, I've been one of them from time to time) but it's so unbelievable that a few guards and orcs showed up right on time for combat?

Every fight that I've seen people have gathered around it before even a single person had fallen. To think that the chances of enemies arriving just as fast is preposterous can only be paranoia.

Earlier it was mentioned that Grant spoke of the town to the orcs. The orcs claim it was in-character; Grant claims otherwise. Could either party step up and provide a quote from their log? That would settle that debate.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:52 am

that just remembers me the day zerbus fought movement. first there were just zerbus, grant and one or two others. damn, was too funny to see the amount of movement members online, i say online, they weren't in game before, increase to 10 or 11 and gathering around Zerbus in the middle of town in just 2 minutes. And me never saw Grant or the other ones walking away. The funniest was that the others weren't even ingame. but, well, i never want to say that movement used messangers to call the others, noooo

. they never did before.

but damn, why we are talking about this again? topic closed. this thread have an other one

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:09 am

Of course, when you look at who complained about the battle.... it certainly wasn't the lone archer, that's for sure.

Alakdal Oakenshade · Post by **Alakdal Oakenshade** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:18 am

Perhaps on the Movement forum there was a post: "Be here at this time" and the movement members logged in and went to the spot where they were needed?

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:09 pm

Or maybe it was grant on his home server with 10 different comps with different IP addreses (somehow) and he left messages for himself! That's why they couldn't fight, he lagged and couldn't fight on all the comps at the same time.

Anyway, I suggest you speak ic to people you meet ooc in the real world. See how funny it is.