Also ich bin bestimmt nicht die erste, die das vorschlägt, und wahrscheinlich gibt es eine Verschwörung der Carpentry-Gilden dagegen - aber ich fände es gut, wenn man wenigstens ein paar seiner Pfeile im Opfer wiederfinden könnte. Theoretisch müsste man sogar verschossene Pfeile, die daneben gegangen sind, noch hier und da finden können. Mein Idol Legolas hat Helms Klamm am Ende ausschließlich mit aufgelesenen Orkpfeilen verteidigt. Ein gewisser Schwund durch Bruch ist ja OK, aber das Pfeile reine Einwegartikel sind, ist unrealistisch und eine gigantische Subventionierung des Tischlerhandwerks. Meinetwegen wird das Windpotion durch Orkblut unwirksam oder so, aber so ganz ex und hopp ist einfach auf die Dauer ziemlich teuer, und ich habe keine Lust Powergaming auf Carpentry zu spielen, nur damit ich meine Munition nicht teuer bezahlen muß! Oft hat der Händler auch gar keine Pfeile und nirgendwo ein Handwerker in Sicht. Zum Glück gibt es dann doch einen geschickten Zwerg, der sich durch das Charisma einer weiblichen Elfe zu günstigen Preisen bezirzen läßt...
Fazit: Pfeile zurückzuholen ist ohnehin gefährlich, die Nahkämpfer behalten ihr Schwert ja automatisch, und deshalb wäre das ein absolut wünschenswertes Feature
Zoraroth
Summary: It should be possible to recover the arrows after the fight/hunt! At least a part of them should be found in the corps of the victim. (Could be shown like the other stuff). It is hardly logical, that all arrows vanish after beeing shot...
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back? - summary in english
Moderator: Gamemasters
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
yes youre right but wouldnt it be even more logical if some or most of the arrows broke?
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
Obwohl ich mit Fernkampf nix am Hut habe, und es mir eigentlich recht sein könnte, dass die ganzen Ranger gc in Massen verpulvern müssen, finde ich es doch logisch, dass man zufallsbedingt einige der Pfeile wiederfindet.. Ein kleiner Zufallsgenerator könnte die Bruch- und Verbiegerate bestimmen, so dass man, sagen wir 25-40% der pfeile gegen ungepanzerte und 5-10% gegen gepanzerte Gegner wiederfindet..
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
Als weiteren Faktor könnte man die Fernkampfskill einfließen lassen. Schlechte Schützen verlieren mehr Pfeile als geübte Sniper. Und ein Bruchfaktor von 95% bei gepanzerten Zielen bestätnigt nur meinen Verdacht: Hier wird mieseste Qualität für teures Geld verkauft (laut smacc 1 gp pro Pfeil. Als Anfängerin brauchte ich fünf Pfeile für ein Schwein. Ein Schwein bringt 2gp für den - allerdings noch zu verarbeitenden! - Schinken und mit Glück 2 gp für geschneiderte Lederwaren - allderings minus 1 gp für Garn! Als Newbie gehen mir aber oft Garn und Leder verloren, wenn ich ungeübt ein Paar Schuhe nähen will, und so ist die Jagd mit Pfeil und Bogen ein extrem verlustreiches Geschäft...
Fazit: Entweder man kriegt die Pfeile eben doch für einen elfischen Augenaufschlag irgendwo billiger, oder man ist ratzfatz pleite - oder tot, wenn man ungeübt gleich auf Monster schießt!
Zoraroth
summary: also the skill for distance weapons can do effect: the more skilled you are, the more arrows can be found in the target. A loss of 95% on armoured targets seems far too mucht for me. The calculation especially for newbies is frustrating: the costs of the arrows you need to kill an animal are far more than you can earn with it.
Fazit: Entweder man kriegt die Pfeile eben doch für einen elfischen Augenaufschlag irgendwo billiger, oder man ist ratzfatz pleite - oder tot, wenn man ungeübt gleich auf Monster schießt!
Zoraroth
summary: also the skill for distance weapons can do effect: the more skilled you are, the more arrows can be found in the target. A loss of 95% on armoured targets seems far too mucht for me. The calculation especially for newbies is frustrating: the costs of the arrows you need to kill an animal are far more than you can earn with it.
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
Sorry to start with this, here in Illarion, but in Tibia there had been a similar discussion.
I don't know, whether this discussion has been finished now (I don't play anymore), but it was the same there as it here surely will be: Neverending.
Starting now with arrows, other players want re-use their distance weapons, too.
Then, you should get throwing spears almost 100% back, because destroying such a spear isn't that easy against targets without good protection. (strong shield/armor)
Bolts can't be re-used at all, because they have to penetrate deep into an enemy because of less weight and and a stronger shot with the crossbow than with the normal bow.
And bolts being deep in demon flesh are not fun to get back. :urgh:
Otherwise you can't harm such a demon or other targets.
That's the same with throwing stars. You can't harm an enemy by poking him a bit with your throwing star. You have to throw HARD and and this way, the star goes deep into the flesh.
And about realism of distance weapons:
Can anyone tell me how to kill a skeleton with an arrow or a bolt or other distance weapons? Actually it's hardly possible. There's no flesh or brain, where you could shoot at. You can't destroy a skeleton on the long range by shooting bone after bone away. Skeletons are bunches of bones, hold together with evil magic.
So, these enemies should be very hard to kill with distance weapons at all.
And because I don't want to open another thread about distance weapons, here another proposal:
Metal bolts:
They are surely almost as old as wooden bolts (in history), but much stronger.
We can't use throwing stars at the moment at all, because they need more to produce (1 iron + 1 coal = 1 TS) than arrows or bolts and they are much weaker. (Tested it myself)
So, I propose replacement of Throwing Stars with Metal Bolts (or maybe addition of MBs instead of replacement)
This would give a similar bolt like the wind arrows (but with much less range) and it would support trading, as crossbows are crafted by carpenters and metal bolts by blacksmiths.
(Edited by Sharag at 5:15 pm on Mar. 28, 2002)
I don't know, whether this discussion has been finished now (I don't play anymore), but it was the same there as it here surely will be: Neverending.
Starting now with arrows, other players want re-use their distance weapons, too.
Then, you should get throwing spears almost 100% back, because destroying such a spear isn't that easy against targets without good protection. (strong shield/armor)
Bolts can't be re-used at all, because they have to penetrate deep into an enemy because of less weight and and a stronger shot with the crossbow than with the normal bow.
And bolts being deep in demon flesh are not fun to get back. :urgh:
Otherwise you can't harm such a demon or other targets.
That's the same with throwing stars. You can't harm an enemy by poking him a bit with your throwing star. You have to throw HARD and and this way, the star goes deep into the flesh.
And about realism of distance weapons:
Can anyone tell me how to kill a skeleton with an arrow or a bolt or other distance weapons? Actually it's hardly possible. There's no flesh or brain, where you could shoot at. You can't destroy a skeleton on the long range by shooting bone after bone away. Skeletons are bunches of bones, hold together with evil magic.
So, these enemies should be very hard to kill with distance weapons at all.
And because I don't want to open another thread about distance weapons, here another proposal:
Metal bolts:
They are surely almost as old as wooden bolts (in history), but much stronger.
We can't use throwing stars at the moment at all, because they need more to produce (1 iron + 1 coal = 1 TS) than arrows or bolts and they are much weaker. (Tested it myself)
So, I propose replacement of Throwing Stars with Metal Bolts (or maybe addition of MBs instead of replacement)
This would give a similar bolt like the wind arrows (but with much less range) and it would support trading, as crossbows are crafted by carpenters and metal bolts by blacksmiths.
(Edited by Sharag at 5:15 pm on Mar. 28, 2002)
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
Hey Sharak, Skeletons are heavy to hit? I shot FLIES with my arrows, and I am a Newbie!!!
:) :)
You're else right. But Crossbows are a typical dwarven weapon. Humans love them. I hate them. Why improve such a silly weapon, which can be handled by every child and kill a honorable knight from a Distance?
But Sharag
#me lowering the voice
in a palimpsest, a rewritten book, i managed to read the original handwriting, hidden under new text, and there were myths about an arrow, called whirling star/ Wirbelstern. It was made by druids, carpenters, mages and goldsmiths. For it was made of Cherry-Tree-Wood, it had a strong wind potion and a whirly magic on it and a diamond as head. It flies long and fast rotating and is able to perpetrate even plate armour. Only elvan nobels had them in the times where the Woods were free of Orks and Ogers, where mankind lived peacelike at the shores and the elves reigned just and unquestioned in the midst of Illarion. But the dark powers rose and the elvian power faded. So they feared that whirling star could fall in evil hands and so erased all knowledge about it. But like humans spend their lives for the quest after magic swords i will do much to find out all about this weapon. But I am all in the beginning of my quest, an it is questionable, whether i will find out or not. And is the time right for that? Nobles could make illarion much safer with whirling-star on their bows, but evil snipers could make it worse than hell with it...
Zoraroth
:) :)You're else right. But Crossbows are a typical dwarven weapon. Humans love them. I hate them. Why improve such a silly weapon, which can be handled by every child and kill a honorable knight from a Distance?
But Sharag
#me lowering the voice
in a palimpsest, a rewritten book, i managed to read the original handwriting, hidden under new text, and there were myths about an arrow, called whirling star/ Wirbelstern. It was made by druids, carpenters, mages and goldsmiths. For it was made of Cherry-Tree-Wood, it had a strong wind potion and a whirly magic on it and a diamond as head. It flies long and fast rotating and is able to perpetrate even plate armour. Only elvan nobels had them in the times where the Woods were free of Orks and Ogers, where mankind lived peacelike at the shores and the elves reigned just and unquestioned in the midst of Illarion. But the dark powers rose and the elvian power faded. So they feared that whirling star could fall in evil hands and so erased all knowledge about it. But like humans spend their lives for the quest after magic swords i will do much to find out all about this weapon. But I am all in the beginning of my quest, an it is questionable, whether i will find out or not. And is the time right for that? Nobles could make illarion much safer with whirling-star on their bows, but evil snipers could make it worse than hell with it...
Zoraroth
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Damien
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Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
Nice idea for not-break chances. But wind-arrows, with more speed and magic stored in them, should ALWAYS break =)
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
@sharag: who says you have to shoot skeletons into the (hardly-existant) body to kill them? A friend of mine always aims for the skull.. If their skull bursts, most skeletons lose their evil magic that holds their bones together.. Some, that are created of cruel arch-lichs may be still alive, but normally he then aims for their thighbone..
@Damien: I agree, that the wind enhancement should be lost everytime..
@Damien: I agree, that the wind enhancement should be lost everytime..
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
I don't consider crossbows to be a "silly weapon", only because it's dwarven-liked and easy to handle.
Crossbows are a great piece of craftmen's work. Easy handling is nothing bad in my eyes. It's not everyone's ability to create a weapon, easy to use, but powerful enough to face most threats without the need of magical influence.
But it was once done.
And each weapon could be used to kill honorable knights, same like magic. The tool is not to blame for it's user's actions.
(Edited by Sharag at 1:40 am on Mar. 29, 2002)
Pfeile zurück/Arrows back?
Cool down Sharag!
You may love your silly weapons as you like. Bows ar too big for you, you would have to climb on a rock to be able to use them, and even then your arms ar too short to give enough tension for a precise and deadly shot.
So take your crossbow, even if it sounds like an oger scratching its ass when you load it, and every chance for a surprise attack is gone.
But else you're right. Good weapons are not guilty if they're used by evil persons and cowards shooting at will against peacefull persons.
I will go now to celebrate the feast of new life after dead and destruction
Have peacefull holidays
Zoraroth
You may love your silly weapons as you like. Bows ar too big for you, you would have to climb on a rock to be able to use them, and even then your arms ar too short to give enough tension for a precise and deadly shot.
So take your crossbow, even if it sounds like an oger scratching its ass when you load it, and every chance for a surprise attack is gone.
But else you're right. Good weapons are not guilty if they're used by evil persons and cowards shooting at will against peacefull persons.
I will go now to celebrate the feast of new life after dead and destruction
Have peacefull holidays
Zoraroth