If one are killed for no apperant reason, one should be able to put a bounty on the killer's head. Simple enough, except when someone wants to collect the bounty, there is no proof of the killer's death.
P'raps when a player dies, their head can be collected for proof of their death.
A stupid suggestion, I know. But it's just a brainstorming wossname.
A Bounty System - To get rid of random PK
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Emhyr van Emreis
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A Bounty System
The only problem is that most senseless pks are word-against-word. How can you know it really was a senseless pk and not somebody wanting so see someone else dead? You'd need to check the logs in most cases...
Basically, I like the idea, but I see far too many possiblities for abuse to be able to imagine it implemented.
You are totally right though that something has to be done gaianst senseless pks... I have already tried a start...
#me points to the Peace Falcons on the guild board
Basically, I like the idea, but I see far too many possiblities for abuse to be able to imagine it implemented.
You are totally right though that something has to be done gaianst senseless pks... I have already tried a start...
#me points to the Peace Falcons on the guild board
A Bounty System
The matther with the unjustified accusations wouldn't be the big problem, I think.
Those, who put a bounty on someone, do this officially and so, everybody can discuss about it and real bad PKs can be sorted out, while the unjustified bounties can be ignored.
I also think, that programming this wouldn't be that hard, as there's nothing else needed than a "souvenir" from everyone, when he dies and an extra board, where you can read the bounties.
(Edited by Sharag at 12:16 am on Mar. 24, 2002)
Those, who put a bounty on someone, do this officially and so, everybody can discuss about it and real bad PKs can be sorted out, while the unjustified bounties can be ignored.
I also think, that programming this wouldn't be that hard, as there's nothing else needed than a "souvenir" from everyone, when he dies and an extra board, where you can read the bounties.
(Edited by Sharag at 12:16 am on Mar. 24, 2002)
A Bounty System
I think that would lead to people collecting heads for fun.
A Bounty System
And what's the problem with collecting heads for fun?
I don't think, it's that bad.
When anyone should start, collecting heads from poor people, that don't deserve it, because there is no bounty on their head or nodody hates them, then another one can set a bounty on HIS head.
I don't think, it's that bad.
When anyone should start, collecting heads from poor people, that don't deserve it, because there is no bounty on their head or nodody hates them, then another one can set a bounty on HIS head.
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Bathory Aria
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A Bounty System
But how can you explain them having their heads back walking around shouting,
once they are revived?
this must only be implemented for real deaths where you cant be revived anymore, but In llarion there is no such things as permanent death unless you leave I think, or get banned or such, but then that would not be death, that would be someone deceased .....
(but a good example is our good friend torekin having his own funeral)
or did you meant that even once they are revived they remain headless?
Wow, this would be a new view seeing headless people walking around, I would be counting headless!
hell I would want to be one.. and shout "I am the phantom of the opera" at the back of everyone
hehehe....
Yes it is a nice idea but...there must be some explanation to it, as in real life
once they are revived?
this must only be implemented for real deaths where you cant be revived anymore, but In llarion there is no such things as permanent death unless you leave I think, or get banned or such, but then that would not be death, that would be someone deceased .....
(but a good example is our good friend torekin having his own funeral)
or did you meant that even once they are revived they remain headless?
Wow, this would be a new view seeing headless people walking around, I would be counting headless!
hell I would want to be one.. and shout "I am the phantom of the opera" at the back of everyone
hehehe....
Yes it is a nice idea but...there must be some explanation to it, as in real life
A Bounty System
The "head as souvenir" was only one possibility.
I think, much easier would surely be an official list with access to the log files.
A person person's name/number is written down in an official bounty list and from now on, he is tracked. As soon as he is killed, the bounty hunter's name will appear on the list and the tracking is ended.
No souvenir needed. Explaining this list won't be too hard anymore, I think.
Maybe a list of testimonies.
A murder is commited very seldom without any witnesses.
Any other criteria, we haven't thought of so far?
Maybe one of the programmers can tell us, please, whether this is a hard task to implement and whether this has any chance at all to be considered?
Because I think, this is a very good idea and contemplating some of recent happenings of murder and pain, this feature could be useful and at least deterrent.
(Edited by Sharag at 12:35 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
I think, much easier would surely be an official list with access to the log files.
A person person's name/number is written down in an official bounty list and from now on, he is tracked. As soon as he is killed, the bounty hunter's name will appear on the list and the tracking is ended.
No souvenir needed. Explaining this list won't be too hard anymore, I think.
Maybe a list of testimonies.
A murder is commited very seldom without any witnesses. Any other criteria, we haven't thought of so far?
Maybe one of the programmers can tell us, please, whether this is a hard task to implement and whether this has any chance at all to be considered?
Because I think, this is a very good idea and contemplating some of recent happenings of murder and pain, this feature could be useful and at least deterrent.
(Edited by Sharag at 12:35 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
A Bounty System
well i think you should cut of the guys ears and give that too show you have killed him you cant any way se ears on people...
A Bounty System
woops typo anyways
A Bounty System
@Zorain: Why do I think to know, where you got your idea from?
To be serious, I don't think, these ears are a good idea, because we want to stay a bit in reality. What do you do after someone lost both his ears?
Besides this, you can't identify somebody only by his ears.
To be serious, I don't think, these ears are a good idea, because we want to stay a bit in reality. What do you do after someone lost both his ears?
Besides this, you can't identify somebody only by his ears.
A Bounty System
I don't think word-against-word accusations are a problem - why shouldn't I put a bounty on someones head, who is unguilty?
The "cut-off-head" could be included, but perhaps we should choose another type of proof. I don't want to have a label "parental advisory- explicit content" on this game.
Access to the log files would make no sense, since no one (including the GMs) except the programmers would be able to interpret them (at least the actual log files). After all, I don't want to have a 25 MB / day log file in the internet.
The "cut-off-head" could be included, but perhaps we should choose another type of proof. I don't want to have a label "parental advisory- explicit content" on this game.
Access to the log files would make no sense, since no one (including the GMs) except the programmers would be able to interpret them (at least the actual log files). After all, I don't want to have a 25 MB / day log file in the internet.
A Bounty System
@Bror:
The problem is, I think, that we want to stay in some kind of explainable reality. The head is the only body part, that can be used to identify someone. Else, I would propose cutting off a curl of hair, because hair keeps growing. (Hmm, do lizards and orcs have hair? Only thinking about it, because I don't know.)
Another proposal were ingame pictures. For example a small piece of paper and clicking on it, you can see: "This is a photograph of the dead body of xxx", but there were no cameras in the time, this game takes place. This would, however, be totally free of explicit content.
And painted pictures? Can be faked.
The idea with the log file access can now be forgotten, too. I simply didn't know about the structure of such log files and made my proposal in good intention. A 25 MB log file is unreasonable, of course.
Anyone better ideas?
(Edited by Sharag at 4:36 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
The problem is, I think, that we want to stay in some kind of explainable reality. The head is the only body part, that can be used to identify someone. Else, I would propose cutting off a curl of hair, because hair keeps growing. (Hmm, do lizards and orcs have hair? Only thinking about it, because I don't know.)
Another proposal were ingame pictures. For example a small piece of paper and clicking on it, you can see: "This is a photograph of the dead body of xxx", but there were no cameras in the time, this game takes place. This would, however, be totally free of explicit content.
And painted pictures? Can be faked.
The idea with the log file access can now be forgotten, too. I simply didn't know about the structure of such log files and made my proposal in good intention. A 25 MB log file is unreasonable, of course.
Anyone better ideas?
(Edited by Sharag at 4:36 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
A Bounty System
yes sharag i got it from diablo 2 but if whe get unconsius bodies in illarion we could drag them and show them for the guy that pays the bounty well its not such a good idea only something
i thougt of very quikly
i thougt of very quikly
A Bounty System
And what to do with the players, while they are unconscious?
Prevent them from playing until the bounty is payed?
Not everybody is online every day. You can't keep people from playing for several days.
And countless bodies lying around isn't very healthy.
We need something that fits to the time and the background and lasts long. (After some time, dead bodies start to smell)
(Edited by Sharag at 6:26 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
Prevent them from playing until the bounty is payed?
Not everybody is online every day. You can't keep people from playing for several days.
And countless bodies lying around isn't very healthy.
We need something that fits to the time and the background and lasts long. (After some time, dead bodies start to smell)
(Edited by Sharag at 6:26 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
A Bounty System
First of all my proposal requires the graphics for a "dead" body of each race and a modification of the revive algorithmus as well as two new skills.
I see that this may be too hard to implement, but I as well believe in the skills of the programmers as I think this may be considerable.
If you kill somebody, his body falls to the ground, and his soul flies around like the player does even now. As soon as the soul reaches the yellow cross or is revived by a healer, he gets a new body and the old one "explodes" in spiritual energy.
As long as the body lies on the ground, there may be two "Other skills" to be used on the body: A) The bounty hunter could cut, for example, a finger off the body to prove the target was dead
B) A Constable could try to search for marks of the murderer, so to say there is a chance for skilled bounty hunters/guardsmen etc. to find out who commited the murder if a) they are fast enough and b) the murder was not skilled in killing people without leaving traces (maybe a use for the puncturing skill )
So to summarize: Dead body, Cut-Skill, Find-a-Trace-Skill, new Puncturing Skill.
The problems of unjustfied murders or proves for a bounty would not be a problem any longer..
I see that this may be too hard to implement, but I as well believe in the skills of the programmers as I think this may be considerable.
If you kill somebody, his body falls to the ground, and his soul flies around like the player does even now. As soon as the soul reaches the yellow cross or is revived by a healer, he gets a new body and the old one "explodes" in spiritual energy.
As long as the body lies on the ground, there may be two "Other skills" to be used on the body: A) The bounty hunter could cut, for example, a finger off the body to prove the target was dead
B) A Constable could try to search for marks of the murderer, so to say there is a chance for skilled bounty hunters/guardsmen etc. to find out who commited the murder if a) they are fast enough and b) the murder was not skilled in killing people without leaving traces (maybe a use for the puncturing skill
)So to summarize: Dead body, Cut-Skill, Find-a-Trace-Skill, new Puncturing Skill.
The problems of unjustfied murders or proves for a bounty would not be a problem any longer..
A Bounty System
@Rovac: Can you say, who the victim is, when you see its finger?
That's impossible.
And normally is someone revived within several minutes. So, a constabler has to be extremely fast to find any traces.
That's impossible.
And normally is someone revived within several minutes. So, a constabler has to be extremely fast to find any traces.
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Emhyr van Emreis
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A Bounty System
You could, if you have a bottle, catch a part of the spirit inside it. It of course would have to be a specially prepared bottle (to make it implementable in an easier way: a special potion that turns into a bottle with a small cloud of spirit inside if you use it on a spirit). This would only require a new potion and making the spirit of a freshly dead immobile for some 2 or 3 seconds, long enough to use the potion on it.
I don't know how far the scripting language is developed, but I think it should be quite easy to implement, and it would require only two simple new pictures.
(Edited by Emhyr van Emreis at 10:27 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
I don't know how far the scripting language is developed, but I think it should be quite easy to implement, and it would require only two simple new pictures.
(Edited by Emhyr van Emreis at 10:27 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
A Bounty System
Hmm, that sounds not bad.
A bounty hunter had to go on his hunt only with these special bottles and this would even provide the game with a new glass blowing item. Sounds good for a master's piece of work. The text, you see, when you click on the bottle could be: "You see a small ghost, looking like xxx"
Bror? What about this idea? No explicit kontent, maybe a bit to programm. I am not skilled in this, but I can imagine, that this won't be too difficult. Could work the same like smithing. There the game also checks, whether you have everything in your inventory.
This time, it would be the "Spirit Bottle" or however you want to name it.
Additionally this item would lower the sniper kills, because it's hard to get anyone's spirit, when he is too far away.
Altogether that would be:
-a new very good game feature
-a new glass blowing item
-reduction of playerkills, because of fear of a bounty
-and especially reduction of sniper kills, because a "good" murderer wants a souvenir of his work
(Edited by Sharag at 10:14 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
A bounty hunter had to go on his hunt only with these special bottles and this would even provide the game with a new glass blowing item. Sounds good for a master's piece of work.
The text, you see, when you click on the bottle could be: "You see a small ghost, looking like xxx"Bror? What about this idea? No explicit kontent, maybe a bit to programm. I am not skilled in this, but I can imagine, that this won't be too difficult. Could work the same like smithing. There the game also checks, whether you have everything in your inventory.
This time, it would be the "Spirit Bottle" or however you want to name it.
Additionally this item would lower the sniper kills, because it's hard to get anyone's spirit, when he is too far away.
Altogether that would be:
-a new very good game feature
-a new glass blowing item
-reduction of playerkills, because of fear of a bounty
-and especially reduction of sniper kills, because a "good" murderer wants a souvenir of his work
(Edited by Sharag at 10:14 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)
A Bounty System
I have written this down in my own proposal list.
A Bounty System
first whe get uconsios bodies then dead bodies
A Bounty System
hey bror, what else is on your goody list?
A Bounty System
Cool. @Bror
It's really the first time, that I see a Proposal Board really being used and commented by a developer/admin.
That was a good proposal, it has been worked out by the players and overtaken by the developer.
Operation accomplished, I would say.
#me is happy
It's really the first time, that I see a Proposal Board really being used and commented by a developer/admin.
That was a good proposal, it has been worked out by the players and overtaken by the developer.
Operation accomplished, I would say.
#me is happy
A Bounty System
Well, i like the idea with the spirit bottle but I dont really understand how you solve the problems of unjustified kills and unjustified bounties..
Lets say a well known PK is killed by a bounty hunter, but another person goes to the dead body and takes the spirit for himself?
And @sharag: I doubt that this will be a reduction of sniper kills, as a "good" PK feels content with the feeling of the kill and will most likely do nothing to reveal his identity. As long as there is no chance to actually find out the murderers name, there will never be a reduction of sniping-PKs.
But we need to difference between things we would like to have because of funnier/fairer gameplay and things we want to have because of more realism in the game.
Due to gameplay I would prefer knowing the assassins name, but due to realism I would absolutely disagree with such a feature.
Well, but all for one, I'm voting for this bottle feature, as it is the first useful glas blowing item and gives at least the hunters that kill on all alone missions in the woods a piece of prove
Lets say a well known PK is killed by a bounty hunter, but another person goes to the dead body and takes the spirit for himself?
And @sharag: I doubt that this will be a reduction of sniper kills, as a "good" PK feels content with the feeling of the kill and will most likely do nothing to reveal his identity. As long as there is no chance to actually find out the murderers name, there will never be a reduction of sniping-PKs.
But we need to difference between things we would like to have because of funnier/fairer gameplay and things we want to have because of more realism in the game.
Due to gameplay I would prefer knowing the assassins name, but due to realism I would absolutely disagree with such a feature.
Well, but all for one, I'm voting for this bottle feature, as it is the first useful glas blowing item
and gives at least the hunters that kill on all alone missions in the woods a piece of prove A Bounty System
The spirit doesn't have to be extracted from the body, but from the ghost, that tries to get to the yellow cross. Additionally does every bounty hunter have to care about his reward. It can always be in danger of getting snatched away by others. It's not only the kill the bounty hunter has to carry out.
So, you rather have to be near someone when you kill him to get your reward. --> reduction of sniper kills
And "good" PKs kill seldom. No easy target. There's no honour in killing easy targets.
I think, there are (at least) two different sorts of PKs:
1.) Kill as much as you get and show off with your numerous souvenirs.
2.) Search for a suitable target. Learn to know him. When is he alone? Does he have very good skills? Does he use distance weapons himself and so uses no shields? Or shield and sword? If you know, what you need to know, you can do your job.
That's the real way of an rpg bounty hunter or assassin.
1.) is the common and wide spread PK, that wants to have his souvenir.
2.) is the skilled RPG-PK, that is content with showing his skill in his "profession". He needs no souvenir.
----
Alone of gods Death has no love for gifts,
Libation helps you not, nor sacrifice.
He has no altar and hears no hymns;
From him alone Persuasion stands apart.
So, you rather have to be near someone when you kill him to get your reward. --> reduction of sniper kills
And "good" PKs kill seldom. No easy target. There's no honour in killing easy targets.
I think, there are (at least) two different sorts of PKs:
1.) Kill as much as you get and show off with your numerous souvenirs.
2.) Search for a suitable target. Learn to know him. When is he alone? Does he have very good skills? Does he use distance weapons himself and so uses no shields? Or shield and sword? If you know, what you need to know, you can do your job.
That's the real way of an rpg bounty hunter or assassin.
1.) is the common and wide spread PK, that wants to have his souvenir.
2.) is the skilled RPG-PK, that is content with showing his skill in his "profession". He needs no souvenir.
----
Alone of gods Death has no love for gifts,
Libation helps you not, nor sacrifice.
He has no altar and hears no hymns;
From him alone Persuasion stands apart.
A Bounty System
So it seems this is more about a "proof of death" actually rather than bounties or getting rid of random pks. If anything it would bring MORE pks if they could gain "souveniers" from killing now.
I don't agree to the idea simply because I don't agree to the classification of "death" to players. It doesn't make sense in a roleplaying world when a killer goes "Look! I killed XXXX, and I have the proof!" while XXXX is standing next to them alive again. It also wouldn't make sense when someone holds up 3 "proofs" and goes "I killed XXXX 3 times!!" because people don't die multiple times, not normal mortals anyways.
I don't agree to the idea simply because I don't agree to the classification of "death" to players. It doesn't make sense in a roleplaying world when a killer goes "Look! I killed XXXX, and I have the proof!" while XXXX is standing next to them alive again. It also wouldn't make sense when someone holds up 3 "proofs" and goes "I killed XXXX 3 times!!" because people don't die multiple times, not normal mortals anyways.
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Emhyr van Emreis
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A Bounty System
I partly agree with Dyluck... but there are solutions:
1) "I've killed so-and-so while he's standing next to me": Well, see it not as "killed" but as "beaten". I mean, if he's there again, it's logical that you didn't kill him. You've just beaten the crap out of him, and while he was unconsciuos, you snatched a bit of his spirit. Nothing wrong with that. Also, it would elimiate the problem with "I've killed him 3 times". Hey, you can have beaten somebody a few times, can't you?
2) Make the bottles disappear after some time... I don't know how the game is programmed, but objects seem to have a "time to live" so to say on the ground. Would it be possible to add global ttl for the spirit bottles, and say that a spirit slowly slips from the bottle and goes back to it's owner within 30 minutes or so? Then it would not be a souvenir anymore, just a proof for the guy who gave you the killing job, thus it would help the bounty system but not give the PKs a new motivation.
1) "I've killed so-and-so while he's standing next to me": Well, see it not as "killed" but as "beaten". I mean, if he's there again, it's logical that you didn't kill him. You've just beaten the crap out of him, and while he was unconsciuos, you snatched a bit of his spirit. Nothing wrong with that. Also, it would elimiate the problem with "I've killed him 3 times". Hey, you can have beaten somebody a few times, can't you?
2) Make the bottles disappear after some time... I don't know how the game is programmed, but objects seem to have a "time to live" so to say on the ground. Would it be possible to add global ttl for the spirit bottles, and say that a spirit slowly slips from the bottle and goes back to it's owner within 30 minutes or so? Then it would not be a souvenir anymore, just a proof for the guy who gave you the killing job, thus it would help the bounty system but not give the PKs a new motivation.
A Bounty System
@Dyluck: This problem can't really be solved, because nobody in Illarion dies forever. If you don't want somebody standing next to you, ask the developers to implement final death. I am sure, however, NOBODY really wants this.
About the more PKs problem:
I also answered that by saying that everyone of those PKs can have a bounty in his head, so, the PK number will lower, because of deterrence. I would think twice before killing someone, if I knew, that the next bounty could be on my head.
About the more PKs problem:
I also answered that by saying that everyone of those PKs can have a bounty in his head, so, the PK number will lower, because of deterrence. I would think twice before killing someone, if I knew, that the next bounty could be on my head.
A Bounty System
I simply don't call it "death" at all. Death only really comes when someone gets deleted or quits.
I still don't like the idea of snatching a bit of a spirit from someone who isn't dead. It just seems....weird.
As for bounties, you can put bounties on peoples head whether or not you have this "proof of death" for the bounty hunter to collect. There have been several bounties put on the rpg board before, where the death was proven through screenshot (although unrpg), so a new "proof of death" isn't going to change much. The downside of pks being motivated by a souveneir to kill for outweighs much more the fear of being put on bounty.
I still don't like the idea of snatching a bit of a spirit from someone who isn't dead. It just seems....weird.
As for bounties, you can put bounties on peoples head whether or not you have this "proof of death" for the bounty hunter to collect. There have been several bounties put on the rpg board before, where the death was proven through screenshot (although unrpg), so a new "proof of death" isn't going to change much. The downside of pks being motivated by a souveneir to kill for outweighs much more the fear of being put on bounty.
A Bounty System
I hope you are talking about other games. I read everything in the proposal board and reply to most threads. I don't realize every proposal, but that is becauseQuote: from Sharag on 7:59 pm on Mar. 26, 2002
It's really the first time, that I see a Proposal Board really being used and commented by a developer/admin.
- some have already been discussed before
- some emphasize a playing style we don't want to have (i.e. support Anti-Roleplaying-Behaviour)
- some might cause technical troubles, that only the developers can see
- some might not be worth the work
About your classification of two PK groups: For me there is only one group, since the second is no PK (which is an OOC word). They are assasins, murderers, killers, psychopaths etc.
A Bounty System
you CAN put a bounty on someones head already.... just post it some where....