Mehr Mittelalter-RP bitte / More Medi-evil-RP please

[Galim]

llarion ist ein grafisches mittelalterliches Fantasy-Spiel

Nochmal zur Erinnerung für alle jene die die Umfrage im RPG-Bereich wirklich ernst meinen. Petition
Euer Charakter agiert in einer mittelalterlichen Umgebung. In einer solchen Welt hatten die Wachen Macht und sowas wie Demokratie, Wahlen oder Menschenrechte gab es da nicht.
Und selbst heute wählt ihr nicht den Polizisten der durch eure Stadt läuft, oder doch?

Jemand der nicht weiß wie es im Mittelalter damals zugegangen ist, möge doch bitte einmal Google verwenden und sich informieren um dann sein RP wenigstens ein BISSCHEN in diese Richtung entsprechend zu entwickeln.

Freundlichst

PO Galim & PO Gwynnether

---------------------------------------------------------------

Illarion is a graphical medieval fantasy game

Just to remind all those who take the poll in the RPG-Area serious.Petition
Your character act in a medi-evil environment. In such a world the guards HAD power and something like democracy, elections or human rights haven’t existed. And even today you don’t elect the policeman who walks through your street, do you?

Someone who don’t know how the life was in the medi-evil age should please use google and inform himself about this time and develop his rp at least a LITTLE bit to fit this time.

Sincerely

PO Galim & PO Gwynnether

[Conscience]

In such a world the guards HAD power

Wrong. In such a world guards either did not exist or where they did exist they were strictly under the power of wealthy nobles/kings, or they were common citizens who took up this duty.

and something like democracy, elections or human rights haven’t existed.

Wrong. Democracy, elections, and human rights existed during the medieval times and even before it in ancient Greece and Rome.

And even today you don’t elect the policeman who walks through your street, do you?

Correct. We elect our police albeit indirectly through politicians.

Someone who don’t know how the life was in the medi-evil age should please use google and inform himself about this time and develop his rp at least a LITTLE bit to fit this time.

Then the whole Lyrenzia organization should take a look in google and be abolished? Elections are part of Lyrenzia.

[Galim]

But not the way the players want it. and i said players, because the characters would act different.

[Conscience]

But not the way the players want it.

If it depends on the way the players want it then the Poll will show what the majority of players want, and everything can be decided from this.

[Fedaykin]

Oh yeah i forgot

Illarion is a democratic medival roman/greek role playing game

[Galim]

the poll will show nothing because every idiot with a pencil can set any names on it. damn, it is as list on the townwall. you understand how stupid and useless that is?

[Caranthir the great]

But not the way the players want it.

If it depends on the way the players want it then the Poll will show what the majority of players want, and everything can be decided from this.

Oh. And I thought that anything in the RPG-Board was in fact matter of characters and not players.

[Nedor von Largon]

It is a pity the you can't play a char that would fit in a medival role. Because everyone crys "Oh no the bad corrupt guard, they destroy my very good RP".

When i think at Nedor i see a man in a armor, who follows a thief and pushes away a poor woman with a child in his arms. Because he has to hunt the thief, he doesn't care what he have to do to achive his duty. He is never ment as a bad boy or corrupt guard, only a guard with a medival point of view.

If such roles can't be played, because everyone cry's about theire bad RP and the whole bad corrupt guard. I felt sorry for the game.

Wrong. In such a world guards either did not exist or where they did exist they were strictly under the power of wealthy nobles/kings, or they were common citizens who took up this duty.

But in medival times not every one was a fighter and has the courage to attack one of the guard. Only very few people had weapons. And the most people where afraid of the swords of the guards. Nobody would accuse a guard in the public. Only some very rich and mighty persons could take the liberty of that. And this where only very few persons.

[Gro'bul]

There are about 2 characters I know of who can't kill anything and who run like cowards when something attacks (who are not new players). I think there should be about 75% of craftsman doing this.

[Jhon Sivan]

There are about 2 characters I know of who can't kill anything and who run like cowards when something attacks (who are not new players). I think there should be about 75% of craftsman doing this.

I do not run like a coward . I strategicly retreat till I am safe from the fly chaseing me .

[Mishrack]

Wrong. Democracy, elections, and human rights existed during the medieval times and even before it in ancient Greece and Rome.

Ever heard of something called the "dark ages"? Since you probably hadn't let me explain for you; During the medieval times (aka dark ages) most past knowledge was lost. concepts such as democracy, elections and human rights did not exist, instead there was a brutal feudal system where power was divided between monarchs and the aristocrasy.

Correct. We elect our police albeit indirectly through politicians.

Do they handpick each and everyone, or do they perhaps have little election games? Sure, police chiefs and other high ranking officials are appointed, but what of the actual police force you see in the streets?

[Johann Endan]

Ich gebe da Galim recht.
All die ganzen RP Diskussionen um die Stadtwachen sind doch sinnlos. Es nervt mich extrem all die Leute zu sehen die glauben mit Umfragen und Beschimpfungen im RPG Board etwas bewirken zu können.
Es gab KEINE Rechte für normale Bürger. Bürger hatten NICHTS/WENIG zu sagen. Alle sollten sich daran gewöhnen. Wenn sie das nicht tun können, dann ist Illarion einfach nicht für sie geeignet.

Wer sich gegen Trollsbane wenden will, soll dies FAIR und IG machen, vielleicht verknüpft mit einem kleinen Quest.

Alle die es stöhrt nichts zu sagen zu haben, sollen sich Rächen (wie es im Mittelalter üblich war) oder selbst der Stadtwache oder einer einflussreichen Gruppe beitreten.
Mehr kann ich dazu nicht sagen.

[GMcFly]

Was mich im Allgemeinen stört, sind Umfragen auf dem RPG Board.

I didnt like polls on the RPG board

[Athian]

((deleted))

[Aragon]

Human rights aren't medival. Things like this was developed in times after medival.
The late medival period (12th to 14th century) ended with the beginning humanism. The humanism was the first philosophic school which had a look at the individual and therefore on the rights of the individual. But this were only ideas, discussed by few philosophers.
The main part of the ruling society acts like monarchs would act. I am the law and what I say is the law. Most of the man have no rights, were bend to their lords. The period of the absolutism didn't bring human rights to all people. Human rights for all people in europe first happened in the late 19th and in the 20th century.

And also the athenic democracy (only a small town state in greek) and the roman republic were only small timewindows in history, where the aristocracy had most to say and the normal people haven't got real rights.
The romans later had their caesars, reigning with brutality and power.

The medival times beginn in history in the 5th century with the fall of the roman empire (the one with caesars as absolut monarchs). In the early medival times and also in the high and late medival times (10-14th century), there wasn't such a thing as democracy, elections and human rights.

As for Lyrenzia it was made with elections because of the players who aren't able to play in a real medival time. This was the only reason for elections. An oligarchie of the guilds, reigning without any elections and possibilities for the "normal" fellows to participate would fit much better. But than I hear the crying .... that it is sooo unfair.

[Galim]

Yes, thank you for this words Aragon. i fully agree. oh, about lyrenzia i want to say something. Yes, in the medievil times there was something like lyrenzia. it was a bound of guilds. merchants and the leading persons of craftmanguilds have founded bounds for their goals. just like lyrenzia, which is a bound of guilds. but these bounds haven't had elections, or votes. important where the power the guys had. how much money and which position. and they decided and done what was best for themself the most time. not what the citizens wanted. that was the first appearence of democracy in the medievil times. such bounds of guilds and merchants. not more.

and just fo a remind. just the upper class of peoples had rights. the lower class, workers, farmers and these guys, where not really free. they where under they leadership of the upper class, and without the allowness of that class they weren't allowed to walk around freely. yes, they were something like slaves. so, in illarion you can be happy to be that free and have that many rights you have now.

[Aragon]

What you wrote about guilds happened only in towns with the upcoming class of mercenaries and craftmans. And mostly it where the free towns, which belonged to no territory but only to the emperor itself.
This development started first in the late medival times, but grows much important in the times after medival.
The normal land population haven't got such things.

[Galim]

yes, but trolls bane isn't the normal land population . as the first, most important and biggest town on the isle, it is a town for such a bound =)


@athian
that was you wrote there have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. please read again and think about it.

[Hagen von Rabenfeld]

but i don't think it's the fact that the guard themselves are being played wrong but the fact that many a time they attack without warning or rp

Do you care to even give a single example?
And no, our chars are no idiots, who will warn people, they banned yesterday and warn them over and over again, when they did so a day before. If we would play our role more stricter, you would not even receive another warning, when you show up again after you were banned. But that would be too medieval RP for you i guess and i could soon read another senseless post of people, who were "slain without a thought".
Don´t make yourself ridiculous.

My character Athian is a good example of someone who takes time out of his day to harass the guard and yet has not been attacked by them. which i think is very good rp, becasue no one in there right mind would attack a Warlock (rped anyway) or any other magical character without some magic support of there own.

In which small fairy world are you living? Oh i see "my char is MIGHTY, so all who do not want to get harrassed by the guards, just PG people, dont be so stupid!". Well frankly, you are wrong, but find out the reason IG and next time, contribute to the meaning of the thread or do not post at all.

[Ishans Schatten]

Illarion ist zwar eine Zeit die dem Mittelalter ähnelt aber sie ist nicht das Mittelalter wie es war sondern eine Fantasy Welt die in eienr ähnlichen umgebung Spielt.
Im Mittelalter gab es keine Wahlen, keine Rechte(ausser für die Wohlbetuchten), keine Magie, kein langes blabla.
Das Mittelalter war kalt Brutal und meist ziemlich Unsozial.
Es gab kein Demokratisches System und es gab kein recht der Freiheit es gab nur ein Recht und das war des Recht des Stärkere und Reicheren.
Denkt dran Illarion ist ans Mittelalter angelehnt aber keine Mittelalter Simulation, sonst müsste sehr vieles anders laufen.

[Guillermo Ballesta]

Someone who don’t know how the life was in the medi-evil age should please use google and inform himself about this time and develop his rp at least a LITTLE bit to fit this time.

In my oppinion polls like the one we had today in the RPG forum are just laughable...and the best that can be done is to give this polls the IG importance they have.
None.

We even had more absurde polls...I remember the voting about the city walls.

Just imagine a medieval city, surrounded by monsters and politic enemies like Northerot...and the citizens saying that they dont want walls because they are a sign of cowardliness.
Thats a joke, isn´t it?

Besides I dont like these kind of polls in the RPG forum.
The ones that vote are not the citizens, not even the characters...just the board accounts.

[Hagen von Rabenfeld]

I should really make a couple of board accounts for nothing but these dumb polls. Jim, Frank and John of the Guard-Fanclub, who are blindly supporting my opinion. What? That is unfair? Others are doing this IG and let several of their own chars work towards the same goal. But untill now, i have been simply too "dumb" to copy such a great idea for an online PRG. Wow, now you have opened my eyes, now i know, how i become a really admirable roleplayer, thank you all.

This is actually rather odd, because you always hear of people who head sick of the gaurd, and not of the people who enjoy having them and feel safe

Of course it is odd, as some POs use a couple of chars (better:board accounts) to announce the same opinion, to make it look like a multitude of chars share this opinion. And, oh wonder, IG the situation does not look like, as described by these (of course objectivly expressing the CHAR´s opinion, not their own or the one, their main char has) "concerned citizens". The measures, some people use to get their chars an IG advantage, remind me of my childhood. In a kindergarden there are more mature ways to support one´s opinion, though.

[Nartak Ironmaster]

Since Illarion is a game, based on medieval times, it's important to do medieval-like RP. Believe me, it's way more fun to everybody, to play your character like someone who lives in medieval times instead of playing him like yourself and your political opinions.
In Medieval times, the rich people, the aristocrates and the kings had the power over the guard and the armys, who mostly fought for their kings without any thought about "freedom" or "democracy".

For example take the played Char Caitlin, who is looking and acting like a witch. Some characters who act medieval like start to insult her as a witch and become mad when they see her. It's quite funny and very good rp to watch that and rp with her that way.

So i think, medieval RP is something very important to all of us.

[Lennier]

Ich gebe Ishan vollkommen recht. Bei aller Liebe zum Perfektionismus und den Hang zu irgendwelchen Zuständen und Weltanschauungen vergangener Tage, sitzen wir hier an einem Spiel, in dem es sicherlich nicht darum geht, irgendetwas versäumtes nachzuleben oder zu simulieren.

Sicher wäre es schön, mit anzusehen, wenn die Spielerschaft etwas bewußter an die Sache rangehen und an einem solchen Mittelaltergehabe teilnehmen würde.

Doch dann würden wohl 95% aller Leute irgendwelche Leibeigenen, Sklaven und andere sozial unterbemittelte Leute spielen müssen. Auf Dauer würde das einem Spiel wie Illa wohl aber nur schaden....
Zumindest glaube ich nicht, dass eine größere Menge an Spielern dies lange mitmachen würde. Keiner will auf lange Sicht einen Verlierer spielen, den man wie Dreck behandeln kann. Es liegt wohl in der Natur des Spielens, dass der Spieler sich dabei erholen, entspannen und den Alltag vergessen möchte. Dazu gehört es nun auch einmal, dass die meisten Leute zumindest im Spiel besser dastehen wollen, als im realen Leben. Sie wollen einfach erfolgreich sein mit dem was sie tun...


Die Probleme, die in Illa manchmal, öfters oder auch andauernd herrschen, sind in meinen Augen einzig und allen darin begründet, dass zwischen den Spielern kaum Respekt herrscht. Es ist ganz allein ein OOC-Problem der Spieler, die nicht verlieren wollen, die nicht nachgeben wollen, die immer nur gewinnen wollen bzw. anderen ihr Spiel nicht gönnen, wenn dieses gegen das eigene geht.

Also, mit etwas mehr Respekt gegenüber den Handlungen der anderen Mitspieler und so manches (wohl nicht alles) wird gut. Dieses Mittelalterzeug ist doch fasst nebensächlich...

[Nartak Ironmaster]

Doch dann würden wohl 95% aller Leute irgendwelche Leibeigenen, Sklaven und andere sozial unterbemittelte Leute spielen müssen. Auf Dauer würde das einem Spiel wie Illa wohl aber nur schaden

Wie wäre es denn mal mit Gauklern, Händlern, Dieben, Nekromanten, Bettlern oder Piraten? Es gibt so viele tolle Möglichkeiten, doch fast jeder (es gibt zum Glück "noch" genügend Ausnahmen) ist nur darauf bedacht, einen stumpfen Superhelden zu spielen.
Ich habe schon viele Chars ausprobiert, die keine Superhelden waren, sondern minderbemittelte oder einfach durchschnittliche Leute und es ist jedesmal eine herausforderung und ein Riesenspaß, es auszuspielen.

Es sind die Superhelden und Übermagier, die dem Spiel Illa schaden, nicht die Leibeigenen und Sklaven.

[Ishans Schatten]

Ja es macht mal spass einen "Looser" zu Spielen wenn andere drauf eingehen und es ist abwechslungsreich. Aber nicht jeden macht es Spass einen Bauern und Sklaven zu spielen, ohne eigene Meinung. Nicht jeden macht es spass als bettler rumzurennen, nicht jeden macht es spass auf Jagd, Waffen, Gold, eigenes Haus, und 90% aller anderen dinge die die Engine eigentlich kann verzichten. Wir reden da auch nicht von wenigen sondern Chars sondern ca 95% aller chars müssten dan unter diesen bedingungen Spielen weil diese die Armee bevölkerung halt ausmacht.
Dazu kommt dan das du damit Leben musst selbst keine Rechte zu haben selber keinen willen und selbst keine eigenes Leben.
Sprich die möglichkeit der eigenen Fantasy , des eigenen Chars, sind einfach nicht mehr gegeben.

Ishan bzw Eron "mein Vater nennt mich Dummkopf" Steinhauer

[Galim]

wir reden nicht davon was man spielt, sondern wie man spielt. wie man die welt betrahctet. du kannst gerne einen dieser dutzenden superhelden spielen, doch dann solltest du dennoch mittelalterliche ansichten vertreten, und kein demokratischer humanisten anarchist sein.

[Fedaykin]

Es geht mir meiner Meinung auch nicht darum 100% autentisch zu sein, es ist nur sehr schade wenn Charas die entsprechende Mittelalteransichten haben unspielbar sind weil sie grundsätzlich als böse Buben oder andere Schlimme dinge angesehen werden, weil sie ebend nicht die "öffentliche Meinung" vertreten. Das ist das schlimme daran. Was interessiert mich ob Char X Inzuchtgeschichten Mittelalterlich sind, oder seine Ansichten Frauen gegenüber. Was mich aber interessiert ist wenn Char y seine Rolle angepasster weise Mittelalterlich spielt und deswegen 95 % der Leute auf ihn rumhacken wie ungerecht, böse, gemein und korrupt er sei. Sorry das ist nicht sinn und zweck des Spieles. Es geht hier darum das sich solche Leute welche die entsprechenden Polls machen oder sich über entsprechende Handlungsweisen aufregen, auch mal gedanken darüber machen wieso dieser Char so handelt, und nicht einfach blind rummeckern.

[Luise Talblau]

...sowas wie Demokratie, Wahlen...

Ich frage mich immer noch, warum es dann solche Vereinigungen wie Smacc gibt.

PS: Wenn wir nur noch mittelalterliches RP spielen würden, würde die Stadt wohl leergefegt sein, da jeder in den Feldern ackert, Herr PO Galim.

[Brodir]

weil smacc eine vom gildenrat eingesetzt organisation ist um deren interessen zu vertreten. deshalb. auch im mittelalter gab es dies. das hat mit der wirklichen demokratie aber wenig zu tun. wer google nutzen würde wüsste das *fg*.