Ein offener Brief an die GMs / An open letter to the GMs

martin · Post by **martin** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:02 pm

Nartak Ironmaster wrote:Dann bitte ich um eine offizielle Stellungname, die von den GMs kommt und ihre gemeinsame Meinung dazu ausdrückt.

Das wird es mit meiner Meinung dabei nicht geben.
Ich habe keine gemeinsame Meinung mit Keikan, Damien, Neon, Alatar, Galdriel und anderen, ich hab meine eigene.
Es mag wohl sein, dass wir, was manches betrifft, eine haben, andere, komplexere Dinge werden aber wohl nie unisono vonstatten gehn koennen. Jedenfalls nicht mit meiner Stimme, vielleicht koennen sich die anderen Herren ja einigen.

Mit welcher Methode, wie dus so schoen sagst, bist du denn nicht zufrieden? Kannst du das konkretisieren?

Martin

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:37 pm

These 'veterans' are doing this for the good of the RP community, right? Yet they seem to operate in secret. NOTHING that operates in secret will ever be a good thing. You are doing it for the good of us? Why are we not involved in what is good for us? Are we seen as so pathetically incompetent that other people have to think for us? I don't want to roleplay in a community that had people thinking for us in secret. Frankly, I don't feel very comfortable roleplaying here any more. It's all become too much of a harrassment to bother anymore. It all seems unwelcoming nowadays, far more than it used to. Like Brendan said, an idea has been proposed, and you basically tell us we are idiots.

A group of 'Respectable Citizens' decide to take care of problems...and mess everything up for other people. Crap happens when people decide to do things like this. It doesn't work.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:40 pm

Dónal Mason wrote:These 'veterans' are doing this for the good of the RP community, right? Yet they seem to operate in secret. NOTHING that operates in secret will ever be a good thing.

Wrong. You simply don't know that it is a good thing, which is because it is secret.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:44 pm

If everyone had a say, then nothing would ever happen, if everyone needed to agree on somthing like at current, it would not be possible, they gave suggestions, I replied as to how they would be ineffective, however everyone seems to be ignoing my post, which makes me feel that people refuse to see the truth past their original assumptions.

And if you knew everything your governement was doing, there would be an uprising, the governements of the world, have to keep things secret from people so it can work, it's the same with this, if it was publicly accessable it would not function properly.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:48 pm

You don't really understand people very well, do you? For alot of people, if they can't plainly see a good thing then, to them, it isn't a good thing. It's what people think about it that's really important, not what it really is.

If the 'veteran' roleplayers have a say, why not me? How do you gauge roleplaying? How do you really prove you can roleplay well? You can't. That's why this whole Veteran squad isn't a good idea.

Nartak Ironmaster · Post by **Nartak Ironmaster** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:54 pm

It's a quite good idea but you have to change things.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:55 pm

Thats because people are ignorant, and if one person says one thing to others and they believe them instead of the others they keep that point of view regaurdless of the evidence to prove it's a good thing. Besides that board has been around for less than a week, there has not even been enough time for any action to be taken on what is being discussed, and people are still complaining that we are a secret police force which we are not, nor do we have any need to good disruptive gamer hunting, if we know someone is destroying the atmosphere in game we discuss what has to be done, if a new player shows talent but isn't so great yet, we find someone to teach them. We discuss possible new rules, and what warrents banning, this was all done is secret previously but y the gm's alone, nobody cared, so why do you all cry about it now that players are involved, people who play the game, and know what the players like and dislike.

Christiana · Post by **Christiana** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:55 pm

donal, sorry, but i think you dont know for what the rpg veterans are. they say not what good or bad rp is, this has someone written somewhere in this thread.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:02 pm

Nartak, it was fine as it was, but you went ahead and screwed it up for what ever reason I don't know nor care, but you betrayed the trust certain people gave you so no matter what reason you give I wont believe you now.

Give me one unfallable idea to change it and fine. Otherwise shut up and stop complaing without any better suggestions. I already destroyed your first 5 points made in the letter as I am sure Martin did.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:03 pm

It's Dónal, if you are going to attempt to patronize me, at least get my name right. You have also not read what I have been writing. I did not say that they decided what good roleplay and what bad roleplay was. I said that it's very difficult to say what good roleplay and bad roleplay is.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:06 pm

We don't judge that, we just judge roleplay against what destroys the game atmophere, people who use huge numbers of potions in fight, rekillers, people who abuse the game technics, and people who abuse the cross to fight non stop even after death.

Christiana · Post by **Christiana** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:08 pm

martin wrote:Its not about the fine line between RPG and non-RPG, but about what is CLEARLY no RPG.

this means things like powergaming, random killing, shouting ooc stuff in town again and again....

short: no rpg!

if you say in town "sorry i must log off" so is it no problem. this is not the task fpr the veterans.

and like mothia said, there are other things they talk on the new board. they have nothing to do with you or someone else in the game.

Dónal Mason wrote: I said that it's very difficult to say what good roleplay and bad roleplay is.

ok, then it has nothing to do with this thread?

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:10 pm

Ah, you mean half of the current population of the game! I'm sure you will do a good job of routing these awful troublemakers, and that you will be able to find them all and actually end up getting rid of them! I am confident in your abilities!

Nartak Ironmaster · Post by **Nartak Ironmaster** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:10 pm

You also disscuss about RP of people

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:18 pm

Natürlichhat jeder einzelne GM, und jedes Staffmitglied, seine eigene Meinung dazu.

Ich persönlich unterstütze Martins Stellungnahme vollständig.
Dazu gibt es natürlich auch einige andere Meinungen im Staff.

Alle sind sich jedoch darin einig, daß dieses Board, auf die Weise wie es aufgestellt wurde, die effektivste und zugleich Aufwandsminimierendste Lösung ist.

Im Grunde ist es nichts anderes, als einen Teil der Arbeit, die bisher nur von den GMs getan wurde (welche nicht immer und überall online sein können), auf ein paar Helfer zu verteilen, ohne dabei die Verantwortung ganz auf deren Schultern abzuladen. Die einzige andere Alternative, die uns einfiel, wäre es gewesen, mindestens zehn neue GMs aus allen Zeitzonen zu rekrutieren.

Wenn ihr eine bessere, effektivere, dem Spiel dienlichere Lösung parat habt, RAUS DAMIT.

So langsam reicht es mir, daß einige Leute Trotz besseren Wissens Dinge Boykottieren, die die Spielatmosphäre verbessern sollen, bloß weil SIE SELBST nicht auf besagter Liste stehen.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:18 pm

4.) We don't think that Rp is judgeable. There are experienced and unexperienced players and everyone of them have their own subjective opinion of what is good and bad rp. We guess none of us want to see his Rp being tested all the time and find himself under pressure with that burden of worry on our shoulders. Therefore we claim punishments just because of concrete rule violations, as they are written down in the rules.

Then why is there only a select few? If you can't judge on who's rp is good are bad why is this open to some people?

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:18 pm

Nartak, the meaning of that is how the people play, we call it roleplay because thats what it is called in this game, you could call it playing style if you want it's all the same, the point is finding people who damage the game atmosphere, the gm's did that already, but now a small group of players can discuss the course of action that needs to be taken against the players, oh and we only have one topic about a player open, because he is the only person who has been causing trouble recently, we don't have a list of everyone in the game and go, "His roleplay is crap ban him, her roleplay is crap ban her." If we decide that someone who isn't roleplaying up to a certain standard we get someone to help teach them.

Also Dónal I've never even seen you in game, nor have I seen you active on the rpg board, so you have absolutly no right to decide game matters in my opinion.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:20 pm

Read the whole topic Val, I think the reasons for that have been posted about 6 times already, hell I think I even posted it in the last couple of pages.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:22 pm

Rule 1) Don't trust the player...

(thanks Gro'bul, I love that rule)

and I believe in it too. I really only have two players that peeve me because of a mix of two things, bad rp (mostly minor so I don't bring it up) and then preaches to me.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:23 pm

Have you thought that perhaps this is not my regular forum account? I am currently waiting on a new character. This character, in fact. What right do you have to judge me, because this character is not active? You are judging me on character activity! You think I have no right to decide game matters because you don't know this account!

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:24 pm

@Dónal

Then why hide behind an unknown forum account? What are you affraid of?

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:25 pm

I thank you all for a free demonstration of exactly why what is done is not done in public.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:25 pm

It's genrally considered wrong to post in an argument with an unkown board account, post with your main account, or else you deserve to be ignored.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:26 pm

I'm not hiding, I just happened to be on this account when this topic caught my attention. If you want to know, my other forum account is Rynt.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:28 pm

My point was to point out that he proved a point with his account...

your last post had a point too, pointing out you thought I had no point.

What point was that?

Have you thought that perhaps this is not my regular forum account? I am currently waiting on a new character. This character, in fact. What right do you have to judge me, because this character is not active? You are judging me on character activity! You think I have no right to decide game matters because you don't know this account!

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:29 pm

pointyness aside, Val, what's your point?

Anyways, I don't quite see what the problem is here. Some players eventually become GMs. This usually cause no stir. Then, some players are chosen arbitrarily to aid the GMs in their duties. How can you claim not to be hypocritical if you don't mind GMs but you do mind these people?

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:29 pm

I thought so when I saw your location. However I haven't seen Rynt in game for a long time either, nor have you been active on the rpg board to my knowledge, so why should you decide what happens in game?

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:31 pm

I think we should atleast see the board but not be able to post.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:31 pm

Simple question: Why?

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 pm

I think we should atleast see the board but not be able to post.

Why? Can you see the GM board? no? Are you ready to rip this community apart in order to do so?