Another PGER stopper

Alsyth Astha · Post by **Alsyth Astha** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:20 am

Instead of hurting yourself, how about the gm's designate points. These points make it so you can only max out lets say 3-4 areas. so you can have 2 fighting, 1 job. So once you use up all your points and you start to learn another area, one area looses experience. This would make it so you can only have one profession or 3 if you don't fight. what do you think?

Drogla · Post by **Drogla** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:20 am

dont like it-just becuase you can fight with a hammer, sword, adn a bow doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to know something of herblore. Perhaps you can only master so many, but Age and willpower(as you set when you made yoru charector) and other similar factors should also be taken into account.

Perhaps something will be dont in the future

Alsyth Astha · Post by **Alsyth Astha** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:24 am

butpeople have so many grandmasters in too many areas, then they preach good roleplay. Your brain can only hold so much information. Got this idea from Diablo 2 where you can max out one area of expertise.

Derinoar Fallvictor · Post by **Derinoar Fallvictor** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:24 am

Honestly i don't like it, you should be able to dable in a lot of stuff..people alround the world change jobs or do more than 3 things, i aslo thing people are trying to fix something thats not broke, we DO NOT have that many pgers yes there are some but make all of these pg stopers ruins the game for people who rp well

Alsyth Astha · Post by **Alsyth Astha** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:25 am

I agree, but I hate the little hurt your finger idea so I offer this as an alt.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:41 am

There was an idea like this proposed a while ago and i agreed with it than, and still think it would make it better! People will still be able to "dabble" in all the things but wont be able to be a master in all of them. For example, if you were learning a skill, as you got better at that one, your others would go down at the same speed as that one skill going up.

I think the majority of people that will say this is a bad idea are the old players who maxed out all the skills when it was easy to do so, or the people that wanna be masters in everything.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:58 am

If skills were reduced then a PGer would PG the skill they lose, so they wouldn't stop PGing they'd just PG longer. Should this be incorporated into the game I would think that by fighting you would only lose crafting skill and that by crafting you should lose fighting skill. Using magic should reduse fighting a little, but not crafting skill.

Alsyth Astha · Post by **Alsyth Astha** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:01 am

This stops a passive powergamer who slowly maxs out a bunch of stats so they can be a master at many things. With this more jobs will appear, possible lumberjack profession, or weaver might be as important.

Avaloner · Post by **Avaloner** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:04 am

I think this idea was already mentioned somewere on the board and in the end i believe there was an decidion that you will have in the endversion one masterskill and 2 other good skills.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:55 am

i think the fightingskills and the craftmanskills should be handled separated.

Fedaykin · Post by **Fedaykin** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:12 pm

i think not so.

If you want to be a realy good fighter. A master of fighting. You have to study very hard. So you haven't enough time to learn a different profession than fighting.

So you have to decide what you want. A master fighter. Or a master blacksmith.

Or a bit from both but then you are not able to master both skills.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:29 pm

I think that before any agreed anti PG code is put in place ALL characters should have their skills set back to zero. The loss should pose no problem for older characters as they can RP the loss and regain their skills at the same rate as newcomers.

Derinoar Fallvictor · Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:26 pm

My problem with this is that, Illarion was always seemed more free to do what you want then other rpgs.In other ones they have set class and jobs and junk in Illarion you could shake things up..IMO i think this would ruin that a little...and Illarion doesn't use numbers for skill levels so why should it use them to stop your skills?

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:32 am

No-one I know roleplays a master blacksmith-fighter-mage-etc so this wouldn't restrict anyone's roleplay. Also remeber that when you lose a skill because you are gaining another, you can always change your mind and train another one.

I think that before any agreed anti PG code is put in place ALL characters should have their skills set back to zero.

Agreed. Then we wouldn't get any "Illarion isn't about skills!" talk from the older players who dont have to work hard for for their master status because they got them before the skills were made harder.

If skills were reduced then a PGer would PG the skill they lose, so they wouldn't stop PGing they'd just PG longer.

But the PGer would soon realise that when they train another skill, the other skill they trained on would slowley decrease and so would quit the game because they cannot master it. LEss power gaming and more roleplaying!

Alsyth Astha · Post by **Alsyth Astha** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:36 am

I got my skills when it was hard, and reseting won't stop pg, just make pger powergame more. I don't think PG is a big subject right now, but I was offering this as an alt to nilo's idea.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:51 am

This is what the problem with Illarion is today. People keep wishing for MORE technical limitations and less encouragment of good roleplaying manners.

Let's take Bruce Lee as an example. The guy was a pretty damn good fighter, but that didn't stop him from reading (and making) countless books, notes, philosophies, etc. He was very intelligent as well as fit.

Not to mention he knew a ton regarding the medical sciences of the human body. He wasn't even 35 when he died.

So people have the ability to be good at a WIDE range of skills. Being good at one often doesn't limit the other, provided you have the dedication to actually get good. The trouble is, people these days are looking for the quickest way to get these skills while not doing an ounce of roleplay to encourage it. Not everybody can be good at everything, but some can. It depends on who has the best characteristics and IG motivation I suppose.

Derinoar Fallvictor · Post by **Derinoar Fallvictor** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:52 am

^ I fully agree

Higher_Justice · Post by **Higher_Justice** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:15 pm

I agree with Galim. Fighting and Magic, shouldn't be affected by Crafting and so on. Maybe you could have say two master skills in Crafting, and maybe two or so good ones, and handle Magic and Fighting differently.

But I mean, A Blacksmith that can't fight well? Or a Lumberjack who can't swing an Axe at an enemy? If you introduce this Capping system, for RP reasons you might need some sort of Skill Synergy thing going, like points in Blacksmithing increase a particular fighting skill, and I think thats too much hassle for the Team.

Remember the phrase K.I.S.S, Keep it Simple, Stupid.
That stupid just comes with the Saying, I mean no offence to anyone =D

I think that by adding unneccesary complications, you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Sorry, just hovering about the boards whilst I wait for my Questions =D

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:30 pm

Simple? Well, I don't really like this you can only do X things, so if you can make socks, you can't make bread.

Perhaps we should instead think how a normal blacksmith/ carpenter/ glassblower/ tailor can earn his bread without the need to become a master one?

If you really need some technical limitations, why not simply have the learningspeed for crafsman-skills to decrease (never to actual zero, though) after you have gained X amount of skill?
This meaning that when you have reached X amount in mining, Y in smithing and Z in tailoring, the learningspeed slows down?

But to be honest, I don't think that there should be any further artificial limitations for one's skill learning capabilities.

Fosco_Overhill · Post by **Fosco_Overhill** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:07 pm

Caranthir the great wrote: But to be honest, I don't think that there should be any further artificial limitations for one's skill learning capabilities.

I agree! Though being a master in like 8 compeletly different things wouldnt be that great of rp,But what about people who have things that relate to each other, like a durid they neeed Herb Lore/Glassblowing/minning (sand)/and Duridy

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:24 pm

Wrong.

A druid needs, what a spurise, herblore.
The rest is not nessesary for this vocation.

Exactly because of this "I want to do everything myself"-attitude, I am for more limitations.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:33 pm

Keikan Hiru wrote:A druid needs, what a spurise, herblore.
The rest is not nessesary for this vocation.

A druid could probably buy the herbs from other players. My character is great at finding herbs and sells them for low prices to druids.

But maybe that is taking it a little too far

Keikan Hiru wrote:Exactly because of this "I want to do everything myself"-attitude, I am for more limitations.

exactaly. People should be more relient on others for their reasources instead of being totaly indepentant. It would make character interaction much more frequent and I know when you talk to someone for the first time, talking about selling and buying is a good topic to get to know the other character

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:01 am

The problem with trying to rely on others for your supply is that not enough people are online. Of those that are online, most don't want to be distracted by people asking them to sell them things all the time, and the ones that do sell tend to have really high prices since no one else sells the things they do. I have heard of people charging five times the SMACC rate for things because they know it's hard to buy from anyone else. Gold for beginners is much harder to come by these days.
Perhaps if the shop sold for twice the smacc price thus giving people the chance to get the things they need, but also an incentive to buy from players if they can.

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:02 am

Sorry but do you mean for the shop to sell items for cheaper or more expensive than the shop is selling now? When you said twice the smacc price, I got the impression that it mean to make it more expensive than the shop is selling now, but that wouldn't make sense to me in terms of giving people a chance to buy them.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:20 pm

I was trying to say the shop should sell items at 'X' times the SMACC price. This would mean people could buy things from the shop if they had no other choice but would rather buy from players themselves. I wrote "twice" as an example but, within reason, anything higher than SMACC price would be alright.

I also should of made clear that the cheaper things, things under 70G for arguments sake, should be made available in the shop.

Edit : added "I also..."

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:44 am

Then I guess this whole deal should come down to honesty. It seems like people are trying too hard to make their characters without any weaknesses of any kind. If players could be more honest and easygoing with their characters while keeping it in context, Illarion would be much more fun.

Remember, the MUDs like RuneScape and Tibia are FULL of technical limitations. Look at the sort of players those kind of games attract. Not that they may be horrible, but they probably aren't interested in roleplaying.

But, if we have more people in town hiring other people to do things for them, it would give newbies a fighting chance of starting from the ground up to whatever success (or lack thereof) they want their character to get. Yet at the same time, something would always be in demand from older players, so they don't have to make constant trips to Eliza to make a profit by powergaming craftsmanship skills.

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:18 am

I hate it. If you do that, you make it like other games, and i dont want it to be like other games.... It should be just the way it is

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:56 am

Characters with flaws are the good characters. Guards who take bribes, a failed Magic-User, a stupid orc who can't find the right end of a sword....All flawed, yet would be quite fun to roleplay.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:34 am

Bloodhearte wrote:But, if we have more people in town hiring other people to do things for them, it would give newbies a fighting chance of starting from the ground up to whatever success (or lack thereof) they want their character to get.

Last time I was online, I started talking to a halfling n I noticed his number was quite high so i thought maybe he had just started reacently so I asked him if he could pick me some apples or other ingredients for cakes. I didn't nead them but thought it was a good way to "give" him some money

If we all gave the newer players a chance to make some easy money; giving them easy jobs, instead of letting them fight mummies for it, then maybe we will get more character interaction.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:15 pm

but using the numbers to decide who is new and could need help or something else isn't the fine way of roleplay