Illarion.org

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:39 am

In the distant future

Quest to overthrow lyrenzia (complete)

Next Quest:
Overthrow the GM's and steal there powers!

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:43 am

And my point to you, as I've already said again and again, is that it doesn't need to be "fair" for everyone to get.

GM powers are not something that is competed for, so why should it be "fair" to get?. It is just something that can be given by a GM just for the purpose of any quest (obviously by players with good records only in most cases) that they deem worthy of.

Obivously then, an idea as big as Lyrenzia and how much it has changed the world and created politics, was large scale "quest" enough to gain the support of the GM powers.

Drogan Thunderhammer · Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:44 am

Grant Herion wrote:Well, most characters that get GM powers have to do something to get GM powers,
examples:

Darlok
Dyluck
Myself

Many others who get certain GM powers have to do certain things to get those powers. I am not jealous of the prison keys, I am saying that it isn't fair that councilors/anyone get prison keys for doing nothing.

Why should the captain of the town guard not have the ability to put a person into prison? That's his job. What quest would you suggest that a character, who's role is that of a town guardsmen have to complete in order to gain access to a key to the prison?

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:45 am

What kind of quest is it? It is hardly a quest since it is nearly impossible to over throw Lyrenzia.
Think a moment, you fight the town guard, you lose, you go to the cross and there yo urest, but what happens then? HAgen jails you 10 hours, maybe even perminetly.
What kind of quest is that?

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:45 am

Guardian Angel wrote:And my point to you, as I've already said again and again, is that it doesn't need to be "fair".

GM powers are not something that is competed for, so why should it be "fair"?. It is just something that can be given by a GM just for the purpose of any quest (obviously by players with good records only in most cases) that they deem worthy of.

Obivously then, an idea as big as Lyrenzia and how much it has changed the world and created politics, was large scale "quest" enough to gain the support of the GM powers.

And how much its ruined the game for others

and how much politics would be useless

and how much it magicly took existing ideas, and implemented them, with no mention of the original creators

and how much it degrades players it doesent like

oh wait, am i going to much IC Again? too bad.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:46 am

PRONOUNCE IT: "Forum "bye" has changed to an OOC argument *me looks at his watch* at 7:45! Damn every hour....they are dropping like flies."

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:48 am

Hagen should have had to prove his abilities to be captian of the guard, I dunno, he could have thought of something to earn the right to have the jail keys.

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:49 am

Grant Herion wrote:What kind of quest is it? It is hardly a quest since it is nearly impossible to over throw Lyrenzia.
Think a moment, you fight the town guard, you lose, you go to the cross and there yo urest, but what happens then? HAgen jails you 10 hours, maybe even perminetly.
What kind of quest is that?

A big one. A big huge quest with seemingly no real end, changing the face of the world of Illarion. A roleplaying game is one huge neverending quest.
I don't know, how many times I'll have to quote myself again on the same thread:

You're right. It's the ooc power. That's what the gripe is really about, isn't it?

Why can they not be an exception? Is there some competition for GM abilities that there should be some kind of fair race for everybody? So your gripe is that their superior abilities tilt the playing field for Lyrenzia against which you supposedly feel an ooc need to fairly compete against when you are fighting with them ic. You see speical GM abilities to be something that's supposed to pop up during a "quest" and then goes away, and you don't like the fact that Lyrenzia is regular players doing everyday things and not just a 5 minute event.

Well, you know what, you have to understand that this game of Illarion is one entire big quest. If Some things disappear after a while, and some things are not easy to go away, whether characters or organizations, and that's how a roleplaying world is. As long as Lyrenzia satisfies some condition that the GMs feel they can still logically do what they do (whether by numbers or money, etc), then it may keep staying that way. There is no "default" situation that the game must reset to. The world changes everyday and you have to deal with the situaiton that comes up.

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:51 am

i was only kidding, but i suppose it would have to be like any major revolution a country has gone through.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:51 am

Right... Lyrenzia is one huge quest that is solvable... RIGHT...

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:53 am

Grant Herion wrote:Hagen should have had to prove his abilities to be captian of the guard, I dunno, he could have thought of something to earn the right to have the jail keys.

OOC or IC?

OOC, perhaps the GMs think he is a reliable and good roleplayer? I dunno.

IC, maybe he shouldn't if he was a complete weakling, but he is reasonably strong enough, and since he is assisted by guards, his ability comes more from sheer numbers than his own skill alone I think?

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:55 am

Hagen isn't that strong... The character is actually pretty weak, but yeah, he does a good job as a town guard.
But point was, he did nothing to earn the keys. Maybe he should have had to go through tests, or maybe need to be taught from actual guards of the prison.
etc.

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:56 am

Grant Herion wrote:Right... Lyrenzia is one huge quest that is solvable... RIGHT...

Ok, so what if it's not really solvable?
Can you ever wipe Troll's Bane off the face of the island?
Can you get rid of all the ogres?
Can you permanately defeat the demon or Drakhen?
Can you get rid of all the halflings if you hate them?
Can I ever permanantely kill Grant Herion and get rid of the Movement for good even after all the times you guys have been "killed" and defeated?

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:58 am

But you see, Lyrenzia was not made when the game started like Trolls Bane, hobbits or the ogres.
I think your arguement just blew up in your face mate...

Derinoar Fallvictor · Post by **Derinoar Fallvictor** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:59 am

Can I ever permanantely kill Grant Herion and get rid of the Movement for good even after all the times you guys have been "killed" and defeated?

That was low bro

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:59 am

Grant Herion wrote:Hagen isn't that strong... The character is actually pretty weak, but yeah, he does a good job as a town guard.
But point was, he did nothing to earn the keys. Maybe he should have had to go through tests, or maybe need to be taught from actual guards of the prison.
etc.

So you're saying IC then?

Well apparently he earned the respect of the Foundation?
I mean, what "Test" did you go throught to be leader of the Movement?

I'm sure Hagen has a few share of battles or maybe some trust/ethic issue that caused the foundation choose him?

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:00 am

Grant Herion wrote:But you see, Lyrenzia was not made when the game started like Trolls Bane, hobbits or the ogres.
I think your arguement just blew up in your face mate...

I can't believe, I have to quote the same thing to you 4 times in one thread.

Well, you know what, you have to understand that this game of Illarion is one entire big quest. If Some things disappear after a while, and some things are not easy to go away, whether characters or organizations, and that's how a roleplaying world is. As long as Lyrenzia satisfies some condition that the GMs feel they can still logically do what they do (whether by numbers or money, etc), then it may keep staying that way. There is no "default" situation that the game must reset to. The world changes everyday and you have to deal with the situaiton that comes up.

And I have to add, the Movement was not created originally when the game was. Why can't I get rid of them?

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:06 am

KABOOM!

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:10 am

1. I am leader of the Movement because I started it. To relate Grant to being leader of the Movement to Hagen isn't even an arguement.. They have nothing in common and you have no arguement. Grant doesn't need to prove anything to be leader of the Movement because he started. Hagen kind of needed to prove to everyone that he had the right to get the jail keys because he didn't think of them?
I really do not understand your arguement.
2. The Movement has been beaten.
3. I keep thinking you don't understand what I am saying because your arguements don't really hold up. You say Lyrenzia has the power to jail because it is logical that they would get the right to jail because GMs want them to have that right. And also, at one time your argueing Lyrenzia is a big quest. And then after I tell you it isn't you are argueing it doesn't need to be. Your arguement doesn't have a base..
And...
Who are the players of the GMs? Do some of them have characters in Lyrenzia who are councilors? I don't want to go further because then it becomes a blame fiesta about GMs abusing powers and stuffs that I really don't like getting into...

Note: A lot of this doesn't really go well together, I was throwing ideas together...

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:21 am

Grant Herion wrote:1. I am leader of the Movement because I started it. To relate Grant to being leader of the Movement to Hagen isn't even an arguement.. They have nothing in common and you have no arguement. Grant doesn't need to prove anything to be leader of the Movement because he started. Hagen kind of needed to prove to everyone that he had the right to get the jail keys because he didn't think of them?

Does someone else tell you how to choose your second in command in the Movement? Then why should Hagen have to prove himself to anyone other than Lyrenzia?

Well apparently he earned the respect of the Foundation? I'm sure Hagen has a few share of battles or maybe some trust/ethic issue that caused the foundation choose him?

2. The Movement has been beaten.

That's just because you quit. You've been going on and on after you've been "killed" so many times, and nobody could ever make you end the idea of the Movement unless you wanted to, just like Lyrenzia or any other guild. You can't just "make them go away" either can you?

3. I keep thinking you don't understand what I am saying because your arguements don't really hold up. You say Lyrenzia has the power to jail because it is logical that they would get the right to jail because GMs want them to have that right. And also, at one time your argueing Lyrenzia is a big quest. And then after I tell you it isn't you are argueing it doesn't need to be. Your arguement doesn't have a base..
And...

No, you were sarcastic about whether the quest could be "solved" and so I told you it doesn't have to be "solvable".

Who are the players of the GMs? Do some of them have characters in Lyrenzia who are councilors? I don't want to go further because then it becomes a blame fiesta about GMs abusing powers and stuffs that I really don't like getting into...

Not sure. Maybe they are, but I don't see your point or argument?

Nartak Ironmaster · Post by **Nartak Ironmaster** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:31 am

I haven't even read a single word of what you have wrote, but do you really think everyone is going to read superlong discussions on a "Goodbye" thread? He if leaving, tell him "Goodbye", and everything is ok, no one is going to read such posts.

Goodbye Grant

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:32 am

Guardian, Hagen should prove something because he got jail keys. When Grant puts someone in second in command he doesn't also give them a GM ability. Therefore once again, you have no point.

Grant was never "killed" that often, I think you are never around often enough to know this. Grant normally escapes, infact, he hadn't died for a LONG time until Silverbrand declared war on him.
And again, you are mixing apples with oranges. The Movement doesn't have control over anything. Lyrenzia has control over Trolls Bane, if they can't be stopped then there is no reason to try.
Again, what are you trying to compare?

I am not going to elaborate about the Gm players having Lyrenzia characters, I alreayd told you I didn't want to get into it.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:32 am

Of course it turns into a discussion...

Carahawen · Post by **Carahawen** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:54 am

Grant Herion wrote:Guardian, Hagen should prove something because he got jail keys. When Grant puts someone in second in command he doesn't also give them a GM ability. Therefore once again, you have no point.
.

Grant, what excatly are you complaining about? Hagen got his key because the GMs gave it to him OOC. Maybe he proofed it trough constantly good Rp? And: why should he proof it to YOU?
That had no IG reason, but it fits IG with his role as town guard. Why should he as leader of the town guards proof that he "earned" the key to the prison? That's nonesense. His position alone is the proof for this.
And: why are you complaining about Lyrenzia? Wasn't actually Northerot the goal of the Movement?

Derinoar Fallvictor · Post by **Derinoar Fallvictor** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:13 am

If you payed attaion this started out as a good'bye post, other people turned it in to a debate grant just aruged his point.

ps. Nice Avatar

Carahawen · Post by **Carahawen** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:18 am

Ok, nice as I am: goodbye Grant!

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:30 am

Grant, what is it about those damn jail keys that fascinate you so much? You haven't been able to shut up about hagen and his keys for months now... and now you even use them as explenation for running off?

Get over it, and stop drooling.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:37 am

I am not jealous lol, And I am not quitting becuase of them... *sighs*
I didnt even bring Hagne into the equation til Guardian started talking about him and relating him to me and it had nothing to do with the topic so bitch to Guardian. I had to prove my point.

Darkform · Post by **Darkform** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:58 am

Carahawen wrote:Why should he as leader of the town guards proof that he "earned" the key to the prison? That's nonesense. His position alone is the proof for this.

I think the point is Hagon is a town guard not a prison gaurd and the darn prison isin't even part of town . if town guard can jail build a town jail .

John Irenicus · Post by **John Irenicus** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:11 am

Don't say goodbye.
I start to wonder why he says that he leaves but is online with every of his chars...

Bye