Bye

[Galim]

i cannot say why. who knows what the humans behind the characters are thinking and feeling. do you know that?

by the side. this is a medievil game. and guilds HAVE powers. perhaps you should learn something about the powers of guilds in the medievil time. its not our problem if you think all happened because of ooc isntead of ic. that is your problem.

and i don't have the interest to have a whole discussion with you about that. so don't be angry if i don't answer you anymore. i know your oppinion, you know mine. that was it.

[Sess'sth]

@Galim: Sess'sth was never in the movement, The Fire Seers 'guarded' the castle for a while, but then quit. My only movement character is Grubba.


@Keikan: Yes, I heard there was a rumor about that invisibility thing... Sorry if you guys really do log in... Its just that I still see lots of people breaking the rules....


Okay, okay, my first post was kinda mean. I was blowing off some steam since a few people I know are leaving. I'm sorry. I might still stay in the game. In fact Keikan, I always wanted to be a Quest GM....... if there was an open slot. In case you want a little extra help....

[Bloodhearte]

This game has become bland and boring and I spend more time complaining ooc about things i think are abused by players then I used to do roleplaying.
People have begun to take this game a second life instead of a game and I do not share the seriousness of this game.
This game has become more of a hardcore roleplaying game then a carefree anything can happen today roleplaying game.
People expect you to stick and keep your character the way you roleplay it, you cannot change him, and you cannot stop doing what he does because if you do you called a bad roleplayer.
Fooser quit because of the bullshit powers Hagen has, he was jailed perminetly, which although in real life it would seem realistic, it is a fucking game and there is no fair way to jail anyone perminetly.
Serp quit because he saw the problems in this game.
Crosis quit because the game became bland which it is.
People I used to roleplay a lot with have stopped playing because they saw the problems with this game clearer then i did.
So now I quit



Farreba,
Grant Herion; Gorock; Bumbol Woodstock; Brodie Strongstone; Kipner Blackwood

It's too bad to see you go man. When you were around it wasn't quite like the really old days, but it was much, much better compared to the guys that are around today. Remember the days, where our characters would go on dark god sacrificial sprees? My roleplaying and your roleplaying has obviously matured over time.

I see what you mean by being flogged for even trying to change the role you play. I'll admit, my character went through quite a long experimentative period. I kept trying to "change" how he was in order to find a niche that satisfied me and other players (some of it was just crazy talk from him because of mirrors and whatnot). But as far as I know, you haven't made dramatic transitions to be called a bad roleplayer.

I can also see what you mean by the warring groups...it's just about impossible to have a proper war with anybody, because the hostile characters are often controlled by players who CONSTANTLY travel in groups, stay in the town, for like 12 hours almost everyday, then log off at practically the same time. Yes, the roleplaying is too "hard core." I've always thought of Illarion as a game you should play and have fun with on your freetime, NOT make it a second life!

I'll keep sticking around, and see what happens. It might get better eventually, all things have a rough period (even if the period is long).

[Arkadia Misella]

Hugs Grant
Love ya babe and the best of love to you. And I fully agree with Grant and Cain.

[Drogla]

well.im just gonna have to say this...

EVIL DEMONS ARE ATACKING! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, GRANT! RUN!!!!!

[Crosis]

Later Grant, be talking to ya on AOL.

btw- I agree fully with what Cain said.

[Arkadia Misella]

How can this war really end? Darlok is in game what....like once a month? maybe. Zerbus hasn't been seen for ever. The dwarves ((tialdin)) certainly wont give up. Really hard to have a war like that when everyone can be ressurected.

[Dair Essel]

I have been playing this game for relatively 1 1/2 years. Grant you were a good rper even though most my characters wanted your heart on a silver platter. Also DAMN YOU WERE BUMBOL? Total suprise.

Cain agree with you 100%

[Gro'bul]

Really hard to have a war like that when everyone can be ressurected.

Then go attack their killers right after. I am severely dissapointed in the people who do this, this is terrible rp. Just because your health bar is full doesn't mean you character is healed and in fighting condition. For me losing skill is enough incentive to not fight that much, but apparently it isn't harsh enough. I think I have a good idea of how to do this, but I'm still thinking it over.

Anyways, sad to see you go Grant, I had some really invigorating fights and grand schemes along side ya, and it was great fun.

[Cain Freemont]

Seems some of the talented roleplayers are agreeing with Grant and I "100%"... one would think that would mean something needs to change. I just hope that GMs are willing to listen.

[Gwynnether]

oh.. no more princess-grant-drawings and jokes any longer.
what a pity.



wish you all the best grant and the others.

bye.

[Rynt]

I myself have lost interest in this game. I know people who have also lost interest. This game has just gotten stupid and boring. Playing it now is more like work than fun.

[Drex Thaendrak]

Strangely enough I manage to play a criminal within Lyrenzia and even have fun with it. People who say Lyrenzia would restrict them just didn't think enough about the possibilities they have now. Where does Lyrenzia restrict you?
Laws: Have always been there, just not been written down. Before Lyrenzia was foundet you got slaughtered for everything you did that someone did not like. Now you go to jail. I will not talk about jail times or Hagens agressive jailing habits here, but I understand him.
Bureaucracy: Before you had nothing. Troll's Bane was a place of anarchy, everyone did what he or she wanted and it was plain impossible to have something done for the town as a whole. Now you have a place you can go to if you have a request.
Town walls: So you have to walk now... How restricting.

Sorry, but this idiocy of Lyrenzia restricting your roleplay is plain rubbish. Actually Lyrenzia opened many new possibilities. Lots of them were already used, however not in a perfect way so they caused great annoyances to some players. Others just wait for you to find and use them. Stop complaining and start thinking.

[Guardian Angel]

Here's what I think about an organization built of all the guilds:
Its bullshit. When Lyrenzia was formed, all that was basically said was "join Lyrenzia or don't be part of Troll's Bane." That isn't the part that I care about. Its the reason that people joined that pisses me off to no end. People had their guilds join Lyrenzia, rather than opposing, because they knew that Lyrenzia was made up of old players and GMs. That's the only reason so many of the guilds joined. They thought that Lyrenzia was actually going to be beneficial, as in provide quests for people that have more than one real solution. PLAYERS hoped that Lyrenzia would provide the game with more flavor, not all the stagnation it has caused in game. I will stop mixing IC with OOC when the original IC/OOC problem with Lyrenzia is resolved.

Hello, I understand that you are feeling emotional about the loss of your friends and enjoyment of this game, and I sympathize with that. However, for anyone who is calm and neutral, your arguments are obviously showing more rage towards people with your assumptions of "why people joined Lyrenzia" (which doesn't makes sense because they didn't have GM jailing powers until after they grew) and the assumption that "players with power in Lyrenzia kiss GM ass", which shows me this is fueled more from a personal dislike of certain players or political concepts. Rather, you have put little to no focus on debating exactly the problem of how the system of Lyrenzia has functioned and how exactly it can be better changed.

As for your complaint that you cannot overthrow Lyrenzia, I can only ask what exactly you have done against an organization of a dozen rich and powerful guilds with numerous fighters and resources, that makes you say you have succeeded? I don't quite understand what you think you have done that should give you an automatic victory over Lyrenzia. Then I also wonder as I look at this in reverse, is it possible for say Lyrenzia to "destroy" the Movement after they have been beaten and jailed so many times?

What is wrong with the original concept? I mean, guilds are formed all the time so that people become stronger as a group, and now a giant guild of guilds is formed to become even stronger, and this is all of a sudden supposed to be a horrible influence on roleplay? Are those players not allowed to roleplay their characters cooperating for some reason? I ask that since that was all it really was when it started, and you seem to emphasize how Lyrenzia was some horrible wrong the MOMENT it started, showing me again that you seem to have more against the people or political idea itself rather than the actual jailing ability that came later, which is the only real "special" feature of Lyrenzia that anyone else coudn't have done.

What is it exactly that has really changed? If you were able to play a bad guy properly and not get chopped by the strong local defenders, is it now not just a matter to avoid the guards so you don't get thrown in jail? Or is it just that most of those people were never able to play a bad guy properly in the first place? What if there was no jailing but the good guys happened to be so strong that any bad guy would still have no chance? Are you going to be saying that those good guys are suddenly the reason for making Illarion stagnant and boring everytime they defeat bad guys?
Is it so horrible just because now its more challenging that the dominant strategy should be sneaking by the defenders rather than just hack and slash them?

If you think Lyrenzia is being run so poorly, why don't you debate about how exactly you would change Lyrenzia so that it is run properly? Because it seems to me that you have transfered to the game something personal against the idea of a government take over and the people behind it, more than it is that you actually have something against how the abilities are being roleplayed.

[Guardian Angel]

I agree with Drex, I mean this has so many posibilites for political power struggles, conficts over crime and territory, manipulation, the beginning of class seperation, etc. Now you can really feel the difference in lifestyle from your status and power and being branded. Now it actually feels more like the everyday person is not some superhero who fears nothing, you actually have to worry about society's greater power, the town not just some gathering place for all wierdos good or evil whenever they feel like it.

Instead of waiting for Drakhen to come around every leap year, you can do all sorts of little things and struggles against a constant enemy whether it be the government or the rebels. Now there's actually a deeper reason to have confilct rather than with just plain dumb or plain evil people. I mean the struggle between those in power and those below, the difference of morals and opinons, of life and realities, how different people decide where to side with no clear line between black and white, just simply beautiful and classic.


Also it's nothing personal, but those people you called talented roleplayers who support you.... well I'll say some are nice people, but I wouldn't give them all a roleplaying trophy just yet. They're probaby pretty good in your group, but the standards in the english players of illarion are not really that high now that's all.

I don't know, but just maybe the roleplaying style that you and your friends enjoy were not really what the staff of this game truly intended for this game? Perhaps you enjoyed this game more for reasons other than for their own ideal roleplaying experience which they intended?

[Galim]

i agree with guradian angel. he/she...well...it is right .

i understand that this way. you was ooc angry because you don't liked ooc what is wrong with lyrenzia. that there is no imrpovement, that everything needs too long, that they don't do anything for more flavor in roleplay. but you and others started to try to change this ic. instead of working together with the players to improve lyrenzia, you just tried to get rid of it. there is your problem. if you just wanted to have lyrenzia doing better work, than you would have tried to change it to a better lyrenzia, but no, you and others tried to get rid of it. because you hated the idea of such a leading group ooc. lyrenzia haven't changed the roleplay of the players in any way. well, not of the "noncriminal" players. it improved the roleplay of the criminals because they MUST think now, work more sneaky, use their brain to be a successful criminal. that is an improvement. your arguements against lyrenzia base on complainings against the laws, the townwalls and the guards. you mean this have brought stagnation and boring roleplay to the game? that isn't true. it was the problem that lyrenzia didn't work the way it works at the moment. the most guys of the council are not seen very often anymore. they needed too long for any desicions. but that are things you could have changed with other methods than fighting and complaining at the wall.


and about the changes of the game. iam not long enough in this game to can say how it was in the early days. i just playing since a year and 3 month or something like that. but for me, the game improved extremly. i like the more realistic stile it have now. and all the new things haven't no, or not much influence on my roleplay. well, it mades the game more interesting. if you miss the times, were you was able to carry everything, doing everything, be everything. than i and others cannot help you. this game is still the game of a group who started it. it is their project. and it is still in the testingphase. and i think you want too much from them. it is unfriendly to criticise they guys who are working that hard on this game the way you are doing it. their game. the put alot of work and free time into this game, and all what you guys can do is, complaining. that is not right. and you should think about this. more respect for the guys who are making this game. because they do a good and hard job.


i think many of the old players are gone because they think the game started to be boring, right?. well, perhaps you just played too long? i mean, after some time of playing you done everything, you are everything and so on. your characters grew strong, there wasn't much to do for them anymore. you had thousands of campfires, storys. and much more. no wonder that this started to be boring. but is this really a problem caused by ig organisations or the gms? is it really because of the technical changes? i don't believe that. the technical changes made the game more difficult, they broughts more differences to the game. and you complain that they made your roleplay boring and take all of the fun you had? i cannot see why and how that can be. even with all the technical changes, you can still roleplay. can still fullfill a role you want to play. but just because you cannot make 100 platemails at one day anymore doesn't means less roleplay fun. it means it brings more joy to be able to make 3 one day, because it is something special now. because you worked for it. and worked hard. damn, my character must smith damn alot of platemails for his roleplay as an priest, and it is much harder for me noe than it was in the old times. but i don't complain about it. because i know it means it will be more fun to have success. all my work, and roleplay, will have more worth for me, because i needed more work for it. and it is the same with everything.



that were my few words about this. perhaps i missed the point again. but that don't interest me. oh, and sorry for some of the earlier words from me in this thread. bit it was really late, and english isn't my mother tongue. feel free to bash me around for my opinion.

PO Galim

[Belegi]

My 2 cents:

I play a councillor of Lyrenzia and most of the things written here about it are plain rubbish. All what you blame Lyrenzia for is not done by Lyrenzia. Lyrenzia is nothing more then a small section in the board of the Grey Rose with some topics about current crimes, some about general politics and some about changing Lyrenzia´s laws. Lyrenzia became an ooc-scapegoat. IC, Lyrenzia has great powers and much to say, but this is only due to the fact that characters respect it. Technically, there is no way to enforce Lyrenzia´s power, and don´t come up with the jail, please. Hagen is neither a councillor of Lyrenzia nor is he a member of one of his guild. He is the captain of Troll´s Bane´s townguard, he enforces the law but didn´t make them.

If so many players dislike Lyrenzia, why don´t you try to establish an alternative? Look at Northerot; no Lyrenzia there, but how many characters actually dwell there? None.

I ever liked the idea of an independent bunch of villains in the woods like the movement was, but you overdid serveral things. Fighting here, fighting there, commiting crimes here and there, not a wonder that the movement wasn´t the best friend of righteous characters. But, well, playing the mean guys isn´t wrong. But you have to deal with this situation.

One thing: I read many times "This game became crap / shit / even worse words". Maybe the players who dislike the current game could make concrete proposals how to change it to a better game. "Removing Lyrenzia" is not what I have in mind, this is enterily an ingame matter. If you were a GM, what would you do? What would you change technically? What would you change concerning quests? Try to help instead of just leaving.

And I never kissed a GM´s butt

[Vindigan]

If you were a GM, what would you do? What would you change technically? What would you change concerning quests? Try to help instead of just leaving.

Change everything back to what it was like before the account system. Skill gains faster etc.

I think most people will agree that before the account system and all the changes, this game was more FUN to play.

And before you say "oh skills arn't important!" they must be if they are there at all! if they are so un-important, why have them? we could all go around saying "#me digs for coal" or whatever. Before the 10* harder skill gains came in, there was more time to talk to people and people would talk back to you because they weren't busy gaining the skills.

People would have more time for quests because no-one would be interested in gaining skill.

I left the game ages ago but still like to check the boards now and then. If the game improves, mabye i'll start playing again

[Aragon]

Change everything back to what it was like before the account system. Skill gains faster etc.

I think most people will agree that before the account system and all the changes, this game was more FUN to play.

I have played one and a half year before account system and also the same time after the system was installed.
I don't agree to you.
You like to see chars with names like "motherkiller" or other shit?
You like to see PKs, just murdering for their (the players) fun like "Darkwalker", "Jocas" and others?
You like to see the whole crap of non-rpers like in the former times?
You like to carry 8000 plate mails in your belt and sell to Eliza (what a wonderful economic system and what value of goods)?
You like to have each char a super magican, able to cast all things indepentend from his intelligence or other attributes?
You like to have unhurtable two shield mages?
You like to have ....
I mentioned only some obvoius reasons, why it become better with the account system and other changes.

[Galim]

thanks Aragon *sniff* #me whipes a tear away. Ya hit the point .

because so it IS. The Accountsysthem and the technical changes were just the best thing for the game.

[Alice]

No.

[Gurik Elvenstar]

yes Aragon made a good point..

[Malinne]

Sure, because of course the majority of these people who don't appreciate the limitations that interfere with our roleplay want those particular characters back. That's exactly our point, yeah. Sorry I said no the first time.

[Belegi]

Before the 10* harder skill gains came in, there was more time to talk to people and people would talk back to you because they weren't busy gaining the skills.

People would have more time for quests because no-one would be interested in gaining skill.

You like to carry 8000 plate mails in your belt and sell to Eliza (what a wonderful economic system and what value of goods)?

Two sides of a medal. It is hard to balance a medal on its edge. Both of you are right, it is annoying to see someone crafting tons of useless goods and selling them to Eliza because he wants to raise his skills instead of roleplaying. The current state is that you can´t produce the things you want in the beginning but have to craft useless stuff, but if you make ít too easy, no one buys your stuff because everyone is a supermaster of all skills. So, what can be done to find a good solution so you can roleplay your character?

[Moskher Heszche]

If you don't like how hard it is to gain skill, you can always play a wastrel. I've had a fun time with it. My only skill is "library research."

[Gro'bul]

None of my characters have ever been jailed, however I think the system is too ooc oriented. Maybe if Lyrenzia accually had meetings, question sessions, and such IN GAME, it would feel like they are more than ooc overlords with gm powers.

[Brendan Mason]

I wish you no specific illness Grant, farewell and mind the step on your way out.

Best of luck in RL.

[Cain Freemont]

Before the 10* harder skill gains came in, there was more time to talk to people and people would talk back to you because they weren't busy gaining the skills.

People would have more time for quests because no-one would be interested in gaining skill.

You like to carry 8000 plate mails in your belt and sell to Eliza (what a wonderful economic system and what value of goods)?

So, what can be done to find a good solution so you can roleplay your character?

I have suggested time and time again that we should have the skill gain at least reduced. Think about it, if you want a medal to be balanced on both sides, you have to balance the weight evenly. Skill gain is virtually impossible, thus people can only roleplay, but no one wants to because they can't do anything graphical in game other than walk around and fail at making things. However, skill gain WAS too easy beforehand. People would master everything fast and go on killing sprees, but there was also a lot more roleplay because people didn't have to focus on only skills to achieve their goals. What I have suggested time and time again is that the skill gain should be reduced to 3-5x difficulty of the original skill gain, rather than 10x like it is right now.

I've been walked over in every idea I have ever suggested, maybe that's why no one makes formal suggestions anymore.

[Dair Essel]

Skill gain is not impossible, You can gain skill and RolePlay your ass off. I took the advice of the moonsilver website to heart. Roleplay even when nobody is around your just working. I tell you right now as soon as I say #me wipes the sweat from his brow, or #me sits on a stump to rest. I get more into the game even there is nobody around to rp with. Plus I work very Very little when there are people around to rp with.

The Problem with Lyrenzia is not that it is to OOC it is that there is only one Lyrenzia councilor kind of active in game (thats Carahwen) but she doesnt spend her time doing councilor things. Besides her there have been really only at most 5 times a councilor has been in the game. And those are Lenier(sorry if I spelt it wrong) and Damion. Damion was way back when with the near completion of Darloks castle. And Lenier(again sorry if I spelt it wrong) he has just been coming in for this new war and sitll rarely.

The only part of Lyrenzia that is a true IN-Game organization is the town guard. Because the other guild barely rp things with lyrenzia. In this way it feels that the people of Lyrenzia dont really know how to rp all to well, therefore making them a burden instead of something worthwile.
A few suggestions for Lyrenzia

1. Make yourselves more public.
2. Dont hold trials on the boards, hold them in-game(holds excellent possibilites for rp)
3. Lighten up on the prison times. If you want to see how long it is put yourself in there for 10 hours and see how it feels. Because Im telling you right now that prison time got me pissed and if I had a little less self control and my other character I didnt send a deletion request for. I would have come in and went kill happy on town guards and others. It would have been a cloudy day.(I do like that cloudy day part)

Do those things and you will increase the rp not decrease it, which no matter what any Lyrenzia happy people say, they do decrease the rp of the game as a whole. Oh and not to take away from everybody trying to be apart of Lyrenzia but Delia's character and that other one(sorry forgot your name). They did good with the election, going in game and trying to get votes. Congrats to you

[Caranthir the great]

Pardon me, but Caranthir is active.

Because Im telling you right now that prison time got me pissed and if I had a little less self control and my other character I didnt send a deletion request for. I would have come in and went kill happy on town guards and others. It would have been a cloudy day.(I do like that cloudy day part)

That last part is kind of deletation request, silly.