Paralysis Times

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:51 pm

I suggest that you lessen the amount of time a person suffers from paralysis, or at least make it possible for a character to speak during paralysis. I, and two other players, were recently subjected to multiple paralysis spells, lasting a total of five minutes each. We didn't even get the oppertunity to plead with the spell caster, meaning if we had to log off at the time, we couldn't even try and explain.

Thanks for the time,
Brendan.

Gurik Elvenstar · Post by **Gurik Elvenstar** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:19 pm

yea i was frozen for 5 minutes the effect of the spell lasts to long

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:43 pm

The freeze time is dynamic, as far as I know, depending on several points of the target.

There is even the chance that the caster messes up the spell and gets paralysed himself.

(I didnt look deeply in the mechanics, so I may be wrong)

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:44 pm

Paralysis is just unbalanced... Period...

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:45 pm

You cannot throw this into the room without suggestions.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:01 pm

Yeah, well I am working on that.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:18 pm

well I haven't paralyzed a person with the new system, but pretty much all the monsters seem to have the same paralysis time, then again, they all have probobly about the same magic resistance and whatnot.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:23 pm

well, the person who paralyzed ya brendan was a damn good mage. she have alot of skills. me, for example, can paralyze someone for 4 or 6 seconds, if he have no magic resistance.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:34 pm

I think they should make it so you cannot be killed while being paralized... Perhaps, a mage can paralisis you, but then if it casts a spell that hurts you, your character gets out of paralisis and can drink a potion or run away.
This would deffinetly help and solve alot I think..

Kahlil Gibran · Post by **Kahlil Gibran** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:37 pm

Good Idea, Grant. I'm with you on that one.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:46 pm

Yes, I agree. After casting a second spell, the first cannot be properly sustained.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:55 am

Grant Herion wrote:I think they should make it so you cannot be killed while being paralized... Perhaps, a mage can paralisis you, but then if it casts a spell that hurts you, your character gets out of paralisis and can drink a potion or run away.
This would deffinetly help and solve alot I think..

They could paralyze you, cast an attack spell, cast paralyze ect. I think it is fine the way it is, especially since 3 decent attacks or a flame take nearly all your mana.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:59 am

Grant Herion wrote:I think they should make it so you cannot be killed while being paralized... Perhaps, a mage can paralisis you, but then if it casts a spell that hurts you, your character gets out of paralisis and can drink a potion or run away.
This would deffinetly help and solve alot I think..

Doh... I back that up!

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

Grobul, if you can be paralized for five minutes from one paralisis, then one flame would kill them since they wouldn't be able to heal themselves. And do not forget, a mage can carry potions and simply drink them while casting.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:09 am

Grant Herion wrote:Grobul, if you can be paralized for five minutes from one paralisis, then one flame would kill them since they wouldn't be able to heal themselves. And do not forget, a mage can carry potions and simply drink them while casting.

Whoever has this sort of power could easily kill them anyway with a single parylisis, then take them out one by one, so it wouldn't make much difference. If rushing head first at a mage is a poor tactic, why use it? Strategize.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:33 am

Strategize? Uh... Explain...

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:33 pm

Yes, so you are facing the enemy mage. You have an assortment of many different weapons and different kinds of armour.

"Hmm maybe I'll try the..." *PARALYSED!*

#me takes a bow *PARALYSED!*

"Maybe I'll wear..." *PARALYSED!*

If one paralyse can kill you you would have to kill them in one hit, which is near impossible because all you need to do is reach for a weapon and your paralysed.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:43 pm

Exactly!

Fighting System - Takes forever to take someone down now
Magic System - Paralyze and take your dandy ol' time!

Meaning you can't kill mages anymore in like 1 - 2 hits before they get paralyze spell out.

Falk vom Wald · Post by **Falk vom Wald** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:47 pm

There is one aspect missing in this discussion: The duration if the paralysis-spell depends on the difference between the speller and his victim. In other words: 5-minute-paresis is technically impossible, 30 seconds are possible when strong mages (strong= good valued in the essential attribut and skills) meet weak victims (weak= bad valued in magical defending skills and attributes. If two equals meet, nearly nothing happens.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:55 pm

Yeah but increasing magic resistance is almost impossible. You usually die within a few spells from someone.

Nartak Ironmaster · Post by **Nartak Ironmaster** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:26 pm

Kasume wrote:Yeah but increasing magic resistance is almost impossible. You usually die within a few spells from someone.

There is a way to unparalyse someone, so it's really good balanced imho

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:55 pm

But Nartak, that is useless unless there is another mage around watching the fight. 30 seconds is still incredibly long.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:15 pm

Perhaps the paralysis should be made defensive spell by automatically breaking it when the caster does another spell?

Nyntar Beliothiel · Post by **Nyntar Beliothiel** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:09 pm

Falk vom Wald wrote:The duration if the paralysis-spell depends on the difference between the speller and his victim. In other words: 5-minute-paresis is technically impossible, 30 seconds are possible when strong mages (strong= good valued in the essential attribute and skills) meet weak victims (weak= bad valued in magical defending skills and attributes. If two equals meet, nearly nothing happens.

It sounds like most of the ones who are complaining are the players of characters who have low magic resistance and, in the majority of the cases, the corresponding attributes that influence the resistance to magic were sacrificed while creating the character in order to maximize other influential attributes relating to a potentially powerful warrior and/or magical attack. If your character has the innate ability to withstand magical attacks, the paralysis spell has a smaller effect, or no effect at all in some cases from the majority of mages. Now that some of the previously, seemingly invincible characters are no longer so, the game is much more realistic and on a whole, more fair. The days of two shielded mages are over, so too are the days of invincible battle mage/warrior. Every character should have some weakness. If you made your character with physical combat as its centerpiece of life, then they should be subject to the attacks of mages, if your character is a mage, they should be subject to the attacks of warriors, etc, and because of the new improvements to the system, they generally are. As with anything else, there are some exceptions.

On the other hand, if you created your character with very low attributes, your character should suffer the penalty while fighting with a powerful mage. Mages cannot wear metal armor or use shields, therefore if you can get close enough to one with a warrior or even to attack with an archer, they are as good as dead. A mage must have the ability to stop attackers before they are attacked themselves if there is going to be any semblance of equality in this system, and that is how it exists now. Paralysis cannot, I repeat, cannot be converted into only a defensive minded spell by making the effect of the spell wear off after casting an offensive spell, otherwise the mage would yet again be at an extreme disadvantage. They would be forced to run and hide during every battle instead of being able to display their immense and magical powers. A wizened and powerful mage should have the advantage in singles combat over a warrior, especially one who is easily affected by magic! That is why there is a mystique around the term "mage", it resonates with power and should remain so. If mages are forced to run from anything with a sword or spear, they might as well be removed from the game because they will in a sense be useless. In the same sense, a warrior should stand a chance in a battle with a mage, and they do, if they act quick or in numbers, as should be the case.

The fact remains this, if your character has no ability to defend itself against magic, then the maximum penalty should be suffered while facing a mage in combat. In this case, it is being paralyzed for the maximum time of around thirty seconds, that is the worst-case scenario. Not all targets of the spell are affected for so long, only the ones with little to no resistance to magic who were the victims of a powerful mage, even a weak mage attacking a defenseless person will not have this extreme effect. The “average” person is affected much less by even the most powerful mages.

A true mage must sacrifice much in order to become powerful in the arcane arts, their physical strength, in nearly all cases, is much lower than that of the average person because they spend the majority of their time studying (There are not enough attribute points while creating a character to distribute in order to create a potentially powerful mage as well as powerful warrior.) A true mage is at a disadvantage in nearly all other aspects of life because of their lack of strength or physical coordination that results from such long studies (limited attribute points). They cannot work for as long or as hard as a warrior, they cannot carry nearly as many raw resources or even finished products, therefore they will have troubles to obtain wealth in the most common ways. They are somewhat restricted in the means of their travel, if they are waylaid by a group of strong monsters they will have much more trouble to fight their way out of the situation than a hardened warrior encased in metal armor, thus they may need escorts. Etc. etc. The disadvantages of being a mage are many, but they are rewarded for this sacrifice by having extremely damaging power at their beckon call, if the need arises. If the ability to put this power to use is removed, which is exactly what altering the effect of the paralysis spell would do, then the mages power is nullified and they would be nothing more than a walking fireworks show, something for the children to gather around and enjoy at festivals.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:24 pm

I agree....It does not sound very fun to be throwing spells at someone who only needs to walk up to you...with no armor and pathetic combat skills, life is a little bit tougher.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:36 am

Nyntar, you forget that a wizened mage can kill a warrior in 3 spells, which never fail now. And, a wizened mage can cast from about 6 spaces off, giving the mage ample time to cast 3 spells successfully killing the warrior.
Secondly, since when is having a warrior character bad roleplay? I think having a good warrior gets confused to often as being bad roleplay. Being anything in illarion is good roleplay, you need strong warriors and you need weak ones, you need good mages and you need bad ones. Simply because you roleplay a warrior does not mean you are a bad roleplayer.

@caranthir- that is what i proposed, and it should be implemented, my character is a mage, and I know it is completely unfair to have a paralisis spell lasting 30 seconds.

Nyntar Beliothiel · Post by **Nyntar Beliothiel** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:30 am

I never said that being a warrior was bad roleplay, Grant. The type of character that you play rarely has anything to do with your roleplaying ability; however the way you play such a character is determined by your roleplaying ability.

What I said was that some people who wanted to be very strong warriors neglected the attribute responsible for magic resistance while creating their character, and now that this attribute is necessary they complain of its effect because they don't have it. Not every character is paralyzed for 30 seconds, most are not. Most are paralyzed for a much shorter length of time, if they have the required attribute raised to a level that is not sub-standard. Why should a character that has extremely poor innate ability to resist spells have an advantage over a powerful mage who is forced to wear very little armor in order to use his weapon and does not have the attributes to make them a good warrior in close combat? The answer is that they do have an advantage over such a mage, but only if they act quickly or in greater numbers, and this only makes sense. The mage should have the advantage from a distance, and the ability to hold an opponent in place while they bombard them with their powerful spells is essential to being a good mage. If they could not hold a character while they attacked, there would be no advantage to being a mage or much of a chance they could survive in any combat situations. A warrior need only hit a mage with their weapon, or fire a few arrows past the defense of the mages, what, staff? Wand? Now I hope you see my point.

A character that has their attribute responsible for magic resistance set at a higher level is not affected by magic nearly as much as a character who has a much lower corresponding attribute. This character must then have reduced attributes in other areas in order to raise the attribute in question, while characters that left this attribute at the bare minimum or just above were able to distribute more attribute points in other areas, giving them an advantage in all facets of life other than resisting magic. Now, if you are suggesting to make the first offensive spell cast after a paralysis spell dispel the paralysis spell, then you are making the existence of this attribute and skill responsible for magic resistance negligible in regards to the paralysis spell. All characters would then be freed of their paralysis after they have been attacked by one offensive spell regardless of their skill level or attribute level, which would again put the characters who do have the attribute necessary to resist spells at the disadvantage as far as the two types of warriors in question go, because they would have in effect wasted these attribute points on this useless attribute, when they could have used them somewhere else like the warriors who are now complaining.

Again, a single warrior should be at a disadvantage to a powerful mage. With the system the way it is now, this is the case. If there are multiple people attacking a powerful mage, the numbers have the advantage over the mage. This is how it should be and how it is, Grant. That is what I said.

The reason the paralysis spell works is because it allows a single mage, someone who is supposed to be feared because of their powers, not some run of the mill merchant warrior, to be just that, feared. Mages should be less abundant than warriors because magic is something that would be a secretive art form and not taught to any bum who wished to learn it like it was in the past, and now that magic is harder to learn there will be fewer mages and more warriors/merchants. The mages cannot defend themselves against a warrior without this paralysis spell and they would have absolutely no chance of survival in facing a warrior or two if the paralysis spell was dispelled by an offensive spell, the warrior would only have to wait until attacked, drink a potion and charge at the mage. Now the game is more of a strategy game with regards to battle, as it should be, instead of a potion chugging contest as it was in the past.

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:50 am

The mages already can't have any armour on, or they have pathetic leather armour. I can (max) paralyze somone for 17 seconds or so. That is with Yeg Kel mastered. However, somone said earlier that it is the same for the monsters... I disagree. I used one paralyze on a mummy, and it was frozen for about 35 seconds, two paralyzes and it was frozen for about 50 seconds.. ANyway, Paralyzing is already a defensive spell, and I think you should have to be a good mage...

On the other hand, i think it would be very cool to be able to defend yourself from spells and make them back fire... See the link: http://forum.illarion.org/viewtopic.php?p=119012#119012

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:05 am

Ok Ok for starters... I don't like reading big posts 12 o clock at night. But I read the first paragraph! Woot for me.

Anyways you said things towards attributes going to wrong things, for starters... My character's attribute suck. Suck Suck Suck Suck Suck SUCK. I had no clue what stuff did and what stuff didn't do. How is a new player suppose to know how to distribute their attributes? BAM! They know what everything does, best strategies. And such! Also, making your attributes to become powerful, is in which case, "bad roleplay"

Not knowing what your attributes do for you adds to the "Holy shit what the hell am I doing" sense.

You also mentioned something about you saying that fighters only need to hit the mage or a few arrows. For starters, I know nothing about archer abilities. Yet I DO know fighting and combat ways. It is impossible to 1, 2, or 3 hit and kill them anymore with the new fighting system. It is almost impossible to kill mages because of this factor. Yeah, you might get 3 hits on the mage, but even WITH leather armour and maybe some good parry, this is hardly anything even with a powerful axe or hammer. Just drink a greater healing potion and fully restored. Takes seconds to drink a potion and no penatly against drinking one.

You also mentioned something about the offensive spell hurting or damaging a paralyzed person and then removing the paralisis. Well, yes that makes sense. What you say. Yet once again, we have no apparent clue as of what our attributes mean when creating a character. This may not be the best solution to the problem of paralisis, but there is sure something needs to be done to balance the paralyze spell.

Again... No, mutiple people attacking a mage does not really mean that the mage will lose. All the mage has to do is paralyze all of the warriors and flame them with blue flames. I believe even with low magic skills you can pull stunts off like this because of the sheer power of flames. It's what they say in Dark Age, DOTs, Damage Over Time, Just paralyze the enemy, and flame each one of them. Then just keep refreshing the paralyze spell untill they eventually reach death. Just make sure you have plenty of potions for the stunt.

Mostly what I complain about the new systems and such is that previous "bums" who wanted to learn magic off the street still have these awesome powers with their already easy learned, should be hard, skills. There are people running about that got off easy with good magic. They are from the previous old system and it really affects how it should be done. I see less magic of course, but when you see it. It's usually old members with super natural powers now becuase of the new close combat system.

The new close combat system made it even a bigger potion chugging contest.

Ok so I read it all, but I read it quick and through the topic review.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:22 am

Kasume may be a bit bitter on the topic of paralisis and ice flame being that i stuck him in one for awhile. I noted that alot of characters who assumed themselves powerful warriors, usually the one who could kill a person in four hits or less, find themselves at loss when it comes to dealing with magic. simply because they never taught or thought to bother having there character learn to deal with magic, back in the old system where all they really needed was one or two solid blows to decide a match.
As for ice flame being to strong, i personally don't have that problem, my character can stand ice flames a bit longer then most, but i've been in a few myself, and if it's an untrained hand that cast it (like myself) it's not nearly as effective as it would be from a more learned mage.
back to paralisis. done it and had it done to me. if a person used one paralisis and one ice flame. unless there a very high skilled mage it doesn't normally last long enough to kill someone. in any case where i use that combination. i normally make sure to slap my enemy with my staff in the process.