New Fighting System / Neues Kampfsystem

[Adano Eles]

He won't kill you instantly, so you can outrun him. You just shouldn't carry too much when you leave the mine.

Some people should also experiment with the double axe. I am not sure if it's just my character but it seems a little bit too strong compared to twin swords.

[Val De Gausse]

Also when wielding one dagger with no shield, you attack about as fast a sa sword. You should speed that one up just a bit.

[Zeshyrr]

I can't believe that this is everything you all wrote about the new system.
I expected at least 20 pages within 10 hours.
What about "heavy" monsters? Did you try them? Does it feel good? Should they become stronger? What about PvP? PK?

Martin

Well here are my suggestions based on my observations:

• The effect of armor as protection is too little. There seems to be no difference in damage taken with armor or without. The difference between wearing different kinds of armor or clothing (ex.plate vs. chain) is not well defined too.
  
  Animals like pigs take too many hits to kill. They are not monsters and they should be easier killed.
  
  Two handed weapons do not do enough damage compared to using weapon and shield or one handed weapons. Especially the very big weapons like the axe should do more damage.
  
  Daggers should have a higher rate of attack. Their damage is so low this is very necessary.
  
  I tried the heavy monsters. It feels good but I think they are strong enough. The best fighter needs help to defeat them now so I think it is fine.
  
  I do not think PK will beso easy now because no one can kill any one else in one hit any more.
  
  I have not had the chance to experiment with PvP completely yet but from the few PvP I have had since the new system I feel it is fair.

Zesh

EDIT: I have done further testing and discovered I was wrong about the parry rates. Pay no attention to that suggestion please because I have found the parry rates are fine as they are.

[Derthag]

I love the PvP side of the new fighting system, and i must congratulate you martin. I like the way that now someone with lower fighting skills than you can hit you, instead of it being impossible for them to break through your armour, and i think that it is a great idea as it adds to the realism and makes the fights seem more intense.

Thanks for the new system.


~The player of Derthag

[John Irenicus]

I like the new system. It gives you much more time to rp fights with monsters or players. I didn't fight players yet, but I think it will be fine.
The ogres must be very hard for new ones. Even if you are well skilled they are a danger, I often saw new players come from the cave as a cloud.
Two handed weapons are ok, when I fight with them, they are much stronger then one handet weapons.

The new system makes pk more difficult. PKs are not able to kill someone with one hit now, so you have time to run. Second point is, that no two shild mage can be blocked by 5 people who stand around him, while he is casting and taking everyone down.

Don't chance too much, it's great as is it now.

[Grant Herion]

Yes, ogres are a lot tougher now, they hit you a good deal, even with fair parry and full armor. Very dangerous...

[Bloodhearte]

I can't believe that this is everything you all wrote about the new system.
I expected at least 20 pages within 10 hours.
What about "heavy" monsters? Did you try them? Does it feel good? Should they become stronger? What about PvP? PK?

Martin

Sorry. Guess I've been lazing out.

I like the how the heavier monsters are actually considered to be a threat. As Adano mentioned, ogres. I mean, 14 foot beasts carrying giant weapons should hurt.

As for PvP, I think it's good, but there could be a few changes (IMO). When I hit a person with a two handed sword (a very big slashing weapon), I would expect them to be injured at least fairly quickly (though not quite as quickly as the old system). I was hitting a mage, wearing no metal armor, and it was taking several hits just to get his health down halfway (I remember hitting much harder than that in the old system, so it isn't a matter of my attributes/skills).

Maybe the damage could be a wee bit more severe if there is lesser armor on, and if I'm hitting with a two-hander? (If you're wondering, yes, the greatsword is my favorite weapon ) If the damage is very devastating, the sword can move fairly slow due to its weight.

I think the smaller the weapon is, the faster it should be (not near as fast as something like fists used to go though...that was way too fast). They would hit for less of course, but have the speed advantage. For example, daggers move at a more constant rate than swords.

Other people, please throw in your 2 cents. I could be wrong.

[Zeshyrr]

Don't chance too much, it's great as is it now.

I agree completely. The new systen is a very very big improvement on the old one and it is great as it is now. Only a few minor problems exist.

The two problems most people are finding I have observes are that two handed weapons do not do enough damage and smaller weapons like daggers do not attack fast enough.

Bloodhearte I agree with you.

[Milo Hayfield]

Definately make pigs much easier to kill. It takes far too long.
And it is great that punches are much slower. You can't do as much damage with them as before, which is good.

[Adano Eles]

Are there even stronger monsters then ogres available to experiment with at the moment? Both caves have been shut.

[martin]

I'd like to have other peoples comments on the following topics:

* Two handed weapons don't hurt enough
* Small weapons are too slow
* Armor does not protect enough
* Pigs etc. are too difficult to kill (which weapons did you try?)
*

[Belegi]

1) Two handed weapons don't hurt enough
2) Small weapons are too slow
3) Armor does not protect enough
4) Pigs etc. are too difficult to kill (which weapons did you try?)

1) untrue

Mess up with Belegi and you´ll see that this is not true. In addition, it´s good that the system is not as deadly as before

2) no, big weapons are too fast

Attacking every two seconds can´t be considered as too slow

3) There isn´t much a difference between the different armors, but it is good that you can be hit regardless of your armor

4) True

Another character of mine wasted half a quiver of arrows to kill a sheep.

[martin]

I'd be interested in the total armor you weared when testing these things.

Martin

[Fooser]

I'd like to have other peoples comments on the following topics:

* Two handed weapons don't hurt enough
* Small weapons are too slow
* Armor does not protect enough
* Pigs etc. are too difficult to kill (which weapons did you try?)
*

1. Not really. This new system actually helps people who used 2H weapons in the old system. In the old one a person with a shield and one handed weapon would almost always defeat someone with a 2H weapon, that isnt really the case anymore.

2. Maybe, I havent really looked.

3. What are they talking about? It's fine. Armor protection works out good with the new system.

[martin]

@Armor:
I had a look and found that armor should help a LOT. I don't know what you tried, but without any armor you'll get 10-20 times more damage then with a good one.

Martin

[Zeshyrr]

3) I don't know about any one else but my observation was not that armor does not do anything. Instead I observed that there is not enough difference between the different armors. Like wearing plate armor and wearing leather armor is no distinction defined. (Leather you should be hit harder but less often plate hit more often but less hard?)

2) For a comparison, small weapons do much less damage than two handed weapons but hit just as slow.

4) I tried every weapon including such big ones like war axe. Even with the big ones pigs take long long time to kill. And the are only pigs afterall.....

1) I apologize. I should have clarified better. Two handed weapons in general I think do enough damage. It is the huge two handed ones like the war axe that should do more I think. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that a huge war axe and a simple staff are very similar in damage?

Zesh

[Caranthir the great]

Zeshyrr, perhaps your character is simply weak?
A mummy dies from three hits from a waraxe with mediocre skills.

[Val De Gausse]

I agree with Cara...After further experiments 2handers seem to eb stronge

[Kasume]

Why does my concussion change when I am using my Firesword?

[Klith]

Because its a slashing weapon?

[Turonga Mudwater]

1. No I think they hurt plenty (a war axe at least)
2. ?
3. ?
4. yes, when using a plain sword, from a zombie, it must have taken me 30 hits (with little to no skill) With a Waraxe it still takes a bit too long, for a pig you would merely need to slice its head, it probably wouldn't fightback much.

[Bloodhearte]

I'd like to have other peoples comments on the following topics:

* Two handed weapons don't hurt enough
* Small weapons are too slow
* Armor does not protect enough
* Pigs etc. are too difficult to kill (which weapons did you try?)
*

1+2.) I've commented on.
3.) No. Armor protects just fine. I even kill skeletons when I'm wearing only leather.
4.) Yes. I have tried a dagger, which takes 13 hits to kill the pigs. A mace, which takes around 10-11 hits. And two handed weapons, which takes about 6 blows.

But to be honest, I'm not that gun-ho about my decisions. They're just little suggestions, as I think the combat system is currently fine the way it is.

[Val De Gausse]

. I even kill skeletons when I'm wearing only leather.

Yes....they hit me about the same with leather and chain...Armor does work well, but not well defined.

[Adano Eles]

Why does my concussion change when I am using my Firesword?

Are you using a shield? Shields count as concussion weapons. Fists do, too.

Armor is fine. I'm using nothing but hunting armor and I have no trouble fighting creatures.

[Damien]

Leather and chain : Ever wore a real hard Leather armor ? Double layer of thick, wax-cooked hard leather, with polsters under it ? Examine a horse saddle. Imagine leather made harder...
Such a thing is almost as protective as a steel armor, weighs much less, is much more comfortable and does not hinder your moves, if it fits correctly.
The disadvantage is that it suffers more from sharp weapons (even though you cannot push a dagger through it, the dagger WILL leave a mark), so it needs more repairs, while metal can be repaired with a hammer and a piece of wood (if not punctured).
Some processes of hardening / boiling the leather also caused the leather to smell after a while (depends on what oil or wax was used, for example wax does not smell, but fat from animals stinks alot, especially when the armor gets older than a year or two). Simple bee wax also does not work too well, there have to be more expensive plant waxes to be used (imagine scraping wax of certain leaves. Ever tried to get enough to fill a bucket or even a pot that can hold large leather pieces ? hehe.)
The most scratches on it, however, can be repaired by polishing it with wax.
"Soft" leather armors, of course, are much cheaper and used more often.

[Bloodhearte]

I never said leather armor was "weak junk" or anything like that. Leather is tough stuff, but what I like about it is that it actually counts for something than it used to in the old system. In the old system, you must wear metal to fight just about anything, or you were prone to be very wounded, very quickly.

9 out of 10 situations, my character wears leather armor. After all, he has more advantage with it than he does with metal in armed combat for...erm...let's just say 'supernatural' reasons.

[Damien]

Hehehehe... indeed. Metal can be quite disturbing though. Must be.

[martin]

I think I figured out the problem with armor.
I will think about a solution.

Martin

[Turonga Mudwater]

I see you fixed the pig thing, thanks.

[martin]

I see you fixed the pig thing, thanks.

Erm... no, I didn't. There were no changes.

Martin