Hopeful of decept - Magic

Falk vom Wald · Post by **Falk vom Wald** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:45 pm

As Galdriel already said, this is no quest for the gamers to solve anything. It is part of a changing, and -surprise surprise: right, magic system changes a little bit. This was important to do before the new combat system can be installed and it will come without a char- or skill wipe. But it will change some things, spells in the first row. So now, you don't need to fear your char can not spell anymore afterwards. Satisfied? And one more cookie for you: it will take some more days, not some more months.

But finally I am really asking myself, whether next time changes should simply announced as technical reports: "Pay Attention, don't use the hammer any more to look for coal, just carry hammer and shovel with you an click twice on the one rock deep down in the cave with some different groundtile underneath" - wouldn't this be perfect? No need for brain-using, anyone can directly go out and gain his whatever he likes.

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:34 pm

I personally think implementing game renovations, land changes and other game variables in the way of small/long quest, non-playable/playable story lines in game/forum all go to make Illarion's dynamic history rich and colourful. Just as the atmosphere of the game is also enhanced. Not only that but the way in which we as players interact with the game varies keeping the overall dynamics familiar yet encourages us to think and experiment. Just as these new changes implemented in the form of above mentioned ways offers characters possibilities to exploit the changes and new found knowledge, making for good spontaneous character development and role playing possibilities.

Although (and let as all be honest here) game changes can sometimes be frustrating if not at times a little irritating, I find it very rewarding when I discover something new or work/find out one of the new game designs, don't you? I very much hope that unless majority requested or essentially necessary game updates and modifications are not broadcasted via standard forum/news post stating the exact details of the new features, rather subtly announced through means of quests and story lines. All be it some players find the length and frequent consistency of these 'quests' a hindrance and annoyance to their way of playing for various reasons. I think they should flow with it.

I also sense a varying opinion in the ability of the GM's both in game and out. I personally think that although the odd one at the odd time can be some what heavy handed and mildly offensive in manner and style, overall I am of the opinion they see the big picture and are ideally capable and very imaginative in their way of working, implementing and dealing with the challenges they encounter from game and players. Constructive criticism from players I have noticed is and has been worked on for better or worse.

In all the game is it's role play, it's history and it's community, I think as players and GM's we need to respect each other just that little bit more, talk plainly and maturely putting aside likes and dislikes and show willing to accept and understand answers and points of view even if they are not to our liking.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:19 pm

Personally, I'm with Drathe on this one.

Kiss ass

Maybe, but unlike you, I hold respect for the people who take the time from their lives, to enhance our in game and out of game lives.

Whether good

or Bad.

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:22 am

Retuner maybe they wouldn't have to take so much time if they actually listened. If most of the people say No we don't want a quest like that. they would make it anyway and have to deal with people complaining.

As for thecoal thing. the drought could have changed WHAT metal we mine for. like instead bronze or something therefore people would have to look for it and discover it's secrets. But how (and sometimes where) you mine col Doesn't just change for no reason. I think you need to pick a way to mine (and everything else) and stick with it.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:02 am

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:05 am

The Returner wrote:Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

No, he's making valid points. You're just choosing to ignore him, like the rest of the people who blindly follow the GMs without asking any questions. This concept of following blindly is useless.

The Returner wrote:Maybe, but unlike you, I hold respect for the people who take the time from their lives, to enhance our in game and out of game lives.

And I don't deserve respect and my opinion doesn't count, just because I only play the game? This concept is useless as well. Without players, the game would not have a purpose, would it? And don't tell me "well, without GMs, we wouldnt have a game," because I do appreciate the good things they do for the game, but when they do things that over 75% of of the people disagree with, I think that its time to question what the GMs exactly are doing. People make their own quests because they no longer want to be involved in the quests that the GMs make, which are always these quests that drastically hurt everyone's character, while only a choice few are able to do anything about it. This idea is worthless, as it only wastes time that could be spent with character development.

Point: All you're doing is agreeing with whatever the GMs choose to do. Think about what they are doing, on occasion. It might surprise you.

I'm not asking for anarchy, but I don't want things to become how it looks like they may...[/quote]

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:14 am

And how does it look cain?

Like change? oh heavens no, not change!

No, he's making valid points. You're just choosing to ignore him, like the rest of the people who blindly follow the GMs without asking any questions. This concept of following blindly is useless.

its called, we play their game, they make us happy.

Heres a wonderfully valid point:

When your a guest in someones house, do you grave rob their things and ideas, while ignoring the hospitality thats shown you?

This isent a "concept" is a reality. Without admins and GM's illarion wouldent exist, and we all know you need reason to complain, so thats why it does exist, apparently

which are always these quests that drastically hurt everyone's character, while only a choice few are able to do anything about it. This idea is worthless, as it only wastes time that could be spent with character development.

Those choice few, who solve quests, like in reality? puh-lease cain. I think your ability to find new ways to complain, is quite striking.

Might i add for the record:

A roleplaying game is like a stage play, only that everyone can take part, and the plot is open. What happens next depends mainly on your own behaviour. It is all about improvisation. Our task as "creators" of Illarion is, to provide a set (the game world) and to enable all players to enter this world (by setting up a server and providing the software). Your task as player is to play a person in this stage play and to act - from the person's point of view - logical. A computer software like this can only enable you to do things, that the programmers thought of before, but you will surely have more ideas. So you must overcome this lack of flexibility in the software by creativity, but more on this topic later.

and:

The world of Illarion should be like a medieval country. To make this more interesting, we added things like magic, strange peoples (elves, dwarves, ...) and a lot of gods to the setting. We thought about a time, before complex machines were created. Besides these changes, n the normal rules of nature apply like on the earth. The world is currently restricted to one island. If the population grows and time passes, we will add other islands, which are, of course, already known of and the poplulation of Illarion maintains contact to them.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:26 pm

Most of you confuse the ability to join, participate or involvation into a quest, or rather the choise not to, with the imunity to the consquences of these quests.

Global Quests affect all, no matter if they are informed, willing or involved.
Its a matter of fact with that you have to live, or your Characters.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:07 pm

but when they do things that over 75% of of the people disagree with

Nice figures. I assume, that you have done some intense research to back your claimed numbers with, right?

About quests made by players:
Perhaps the players just, get it, enjoy making their own quests too? Player-made quests aren't exactly what I would call new things, you know.

Avaloner · Post by **Avaloner** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:11 pm

Cain and everyothers that complains do you ever thinked that this is a RPG ok slow to write R-P-G understand no Hack'n'slay no Powergaming Game a RPG. My chars are mostly not in these great quest i play my quests and try to get in others. Ok take an bad rl problem talk about the worldwars do you think anybody want to join a war? no but when you see the war like a "quest" and everybody must stay on the right side and fight against the bad things than there is hope so lets take this quest as a war the bad are the inner zirkel of magic (i think) now everybody else must stand against them and fight for the gods..and maybe for the magic.
Maybe we should made a offlineclient there can all theses littel complaining childs powergamin and the others can play there rp in the normal client.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:46 pm

The Returner wrote:And how does it look cain?

Like change? oh heavens no, not change!

smile you. I'm all for change, but when you change things without thinking, what happens? People smile up.

Caranthir the great wrote:
but when they do things that over 75% of of the people disagree with
Nice figures. I assume, that you have done some intense research to back your claimed numbers with, right?

About quests made by players:
Perhaps the players just, get it, enjoy making their own quests too? Player-made quests aren't exactly what I would call new things, you know.

Oh yeah, I spent all my free time researching what percentage the people disagreed with quests. Right. I was making an estimation... say that with me... e-s-t-i-m-a-t-i-o-n based on what I have seen. I never wanted to get dragged this far into a fucking flame war, but obviously that was out of the question. I made some valid points, and what I got back was a bunch of low-blow insults and negative points. Thanks a lot guys, you know, for actually reading what I had to say. Shows how many friends I really have here.

@Avaloner: The topic was never a matter of whether the game was RPG or Hack n' slash. I was talking about the quests. I know its not a hack n' slash game. But you probably take me for stupid like everyone else here.

You're all fucking singling me out because I'm the only one who has anything to say against one or two points made. Tch, thanks a fucking million. Nice job, ganging up on the only person who has a differring opinion. Now who is afraid of change?

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:55 pm

They do it all the time Cain, Nerevar-Avaloner in particular. It is funny when they come seemingly out of nowhere with hated for you because of different beliefs. Avaloner said he hated me on an off-topic thread, and i dont even know him

Just don't reply anymore Cain, it isnt worth the trouble or the space it takes up on these forums.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:55 pm

Its just, 75% of the people here disagree with you Cain.

And as I already told your character once:
"Calm down."

Darkform · Post by **Darkform** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:00 pm

without change there is only bordom .

the only thing about the quest i don't agree with is how the drought was done . ther should have been some way to farm even if it ment a maxed out Peasant skill actted like a no skill in peasantry at all .

there should be a way to use any skill unless that 1 skill is the only skil being efected ((like when changes on how the skill works in game requires it to be not used for a week)) .

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:35 pm

Here's the thing. We are, as far as I know, beta testers for a free game. If a player has an opinion about an aspect of the game, from bugs to features (including quests), they should be allowed to make their point about how they feel about it, good or bad. If another player disagrees that's fine. The problem is that players with differing views tend to rubbish each other rather than just state how they feel about the subject. While these verbal attacks are entertaining on the RPG boards, on the other boards it is more personal and non productive.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:26 am

I do believe Cain has violated rule 3, Keikan.

I think he needs a time out.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:35 am

Although I do agree with the quests and GMs, I have to agree that you are a bit on the arse kissing side, Returner.

It's up to Keiken whether Cain needs a "time out" or whatever you're implying.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:51 am

personally, no one who deals out F-shots over a game, on a forum, should be playing it.

and whats it to you if i'm on the "arse kissing" side?

as if no one else around here sucks up, eh?

please.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:51 am

The Returner is just a nice person, since when is that wrong?

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:48 am

The Returner wrote:personally, no one who deals out F-shots over a game, on a forum, should be playing it.

and whats it to you if i'm on the "arse kissing" side?

as if no one else around here sucks up, eh?

please.

I reserve the right to "F-bomb" you all I want when you throw low-blow insults in my face. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

You, and the people that are intentionally pissing me off, are the ones who are kissing arse.

@Keikan:
My character and I are different entities. Don't mix the two.

@Grant:
Thanks for being the only one here to stick up for me, or at least understanding what the hell I'm saying. I'm starting to wonder who can even read a post that has useful content anymore, and who just labels every suggestion as some kind of stupid complaint.

@All else: I'm gone from this thread. You're welcome. I know this makes you happier, knowing that one less person is committing some kind of Illarion heresy. Tch.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:13 am

Damn, I knew I shouldn't of used invisible ink.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:56 am

I reserve the right to "F-bomb" you all I want when you throw low-blow insults in my face. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Name an insult BEFORE your outragous rampage of cussing.

Ya see, thats what I thought pal.

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:43 am

Oh Com'n Cain I supported you. People are just sucking up. You can't tell me that all of these thigs have a roleplay excuse. Removing that depot in near the mill. Just an inconvinece. to keep the economy up my ass. the economy is fine when people just sell to Eliza leaveing more time to roleplay. I mean you force people to powergame just to make a cent then you accuse them of powergaming? Puh-Lease. I mean when I used to herblore near the tavern people would walk by me and say "hey can I join you?" I would often be found herbloreing with Vivi, Felkin, other hobbits. I would end up getting maybe 50 firnis and talk the rest of the time. but I didn't mind. I roleplayed, had fun. Now I have to go way the hell outside of town to get herbs where I won't see a sole. It IS good roleplay that herbs grow in patches. But it wouldn't be a big secret and there would be big patches of some, little patches of others. I think bulbsponge would be a fungus, growing on walls. And you could see them. People wouldn't keep it all hush hush like some secret stash of gold. Finding a vein of gold...yes people would keep that secret but herbs? I mean come on... It's a game I can work hard to earn things in real life .All though it isn't work its time I could take that time and work at a real job and make real money. I play Illarion for medeval roleplay. But when there a modern judicial system and a enviroment patrol...or what ever it was that discoverd rot holes. Thats not medeval.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 am

Pronon Palmsuger wrote:Oh Com'n Cain I supported you. People are just sucking up. You can't tell me that all of these thigs have a roleplay excuse. Removing that depot in near the mill. Just an inconvinece. to keep the economy up my ass. the economy is fine when people just sell to Eliza leaveing more time to roleplay. I mean you force people to powergame just to make a cent then you accuse them of powergaming? Puh-Lease. I mean when I used to herblore near the tavern people would walk by me and say "hey can I join you?" I would often be found herbloreing with Vivi, Felkin, other hobbits. I would end up getting maybe 50 firnis and talk the rest of the time. but I didn't mind. I roleplayed, had fun. Now I have to go way the hell outside of town to get herbs where I won't see a sole. It IS good roleplay that herbs grow in patches. But it wouldn't be a big secret and there would be big patches of some, little patches of others. I think bulbsponge would be a fungus, growing on walls. And you could see them. People wouldn't keep it all hush hush like some secret stash of gold. Finding a vein of gold...yes people would keep that secret but herbs? I mean come on... It's a game I can work hard to earn things in real life .All though it isn't work its time I could take that time and work at a real job and make real money. I play Illarion for medeval roleplay. But when there a modern judicial system and a enviroment patrol...or what ever it was that discoverd rot holes. Thats not medeval.

Sorry Pronon, thank you as well.

@The Returner
I dont know if you bothered to notice, but the cussing was not just at you. The world doesn't revolve around you. I was referring to quite a few people when I was swearing.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:56 am

Pronon Palmsuger wrote: It's a game I can work hard to earn things in real life .All though it isn't work its time I could take that time and work at a real job and make real money. I play Illarion for medeval roleplay. But when there a modern judicial system and a enviroment patrol...or what ever it was that discoverd rot holes. Thats not medeval.

a) Were you around between the years 500bc and 1600ad?.

b)Might I add, that technicly, Hobbits didn't exist (although you yourself play one) Therefore, your also taking part in this "Fake medIevil roleplay."

c) I hear many places hire this time of year, though i've yet to find a job myself.

d)

The Knights Templar were a monastic military order formed at the end of the First Crusade with the mandate of protecting Christian pilgrims on route to the Holy Land. Never before had a group of secular knights banded together and took monastic vows. In this sense they were the first of the Warrior Monks. Although originally a small group of nine knights, they quickly gained fame largely due to the backing of Bernard of Clairvaux and his "In Praise of the New Knighthood". Bernard at that time was often called the Second Pope and was the chief spokesman of Christendom. He is also the one responsible for helping to draw up the order's rules of conduct. In European political circles, they became very powerful and influential and feared by the King. This was because they were immune from any authority save that of the Papal Throne. After the crusades were over, the knights returned to their Chapters throughout Europe and became known as moneylenders to the monarchs. The Templars fought along side King Richard I (Richard The Lion Hearted) and other Crusaders in the battles for the Holy Lands.

That is real life. Notice the Simularaties?

This is a very similar thing to Lyrenzia's Grey Rose "Protectors" Maybe a guild council like lyrenzia wouldent exist, but its system did, and worked, in the time period after the first crusades.

If you knew such medevil history, as you act so flambiently so, you would know this already.

Otherwise, do not complain about things you never knew so well to start with. Your argument is flawwed.

I do not have a quarral with either of you, nor do i wish it, but complaining about how a game is run, and doing something about it, are far different.

I hear too much bitching,a nd not enough action, if you want the "old ways" back, bring them back then, no one will stop you if its ment to be. Or if you have anywhere near this fabled 75% slapped-together number Cain's come up with.

If you don't like the quests, leave

If you don't like the admins, leave

If you want to stay:

DEAL WITH HOW THE GAME IS RUN

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:56 am

The Returner wrote:
Pronon Palmsuger wrote: It's a game I can work hard to earn things in real life .All though it isn't work its time I could take that time and work at a real job and make real money. I play Illarion for medeval roleplay. But when there a modern judicial system and a enviroment patrol...or what ever it was that discoverd rot holes. Thats not medeval.
a) Were you around between the years 500bc and 1600ad?.

b)Might I add, that technicly, Hobbits didn't exist (although you yourself play one) Therefore, your also taking part in this "Fake medIevil roleplay."

c) I hear many places hire this time of year, though i've yet to find a job myself.

d)
The Knights Templar were a monastic military order formed at the end of the First Crusade with the mandate of protecting Christian pilgrims on route to the Holy Land. Never before had a group of secular knights banded together and took monastic vows. In this sense they were the first of the Warrior Monks. Although originally a small group of nine knights, they quickly gained fame largely due to the backing of Bernard of Clairvaux and his "In Praise of the New Knighthood". Bernard at that time was often called the Second Pope and was the chief spokesman of Christendom. He is also the one responsible for helping to draw up the order's rules of conduct. In European political circles, they became very powerful and influential and feared by the King. This was because they were immune from any authority save that of the Papal Throne. After the crusades were over, the knights returned to their Chapters throughout Europe and became known as moneylenders to the monarchs. The Templars fought along side King Richard I (Richard The Lion Hearted) and other Crusaders in the battles for the Holy Lands.
That is real life. Notice the Simularaties?

This is a very similar thing to Lyrenzia's Grey Rose "Protectors" Maybe a guild council like lyrenzia wouldent exist, but its system did, and worked, in the time period after the first crusades.

If you knew such medevil history, as you act so flambiently so, you would know this already.

Otherwise, do not complain about things you never knew so well to start with. Your argument is flawwed.

I do not have a quarral with either of you, nor do i wish it, but complaining about how a game is run, and doing something about it, are far different.

I hear too much bitching,a nd not enough action, if you want the "old ways" back, bring them back then, no one will stop you if its ment to be. Or if you have anywhere near this fabled 75% slapped-together number Cain's come up with.

If you don't like the quests, leave

If you don't like the admins, leave

If you want to stay:

DEAL WITH HOW THE GAME IS RUN

And the longest suck-up speech of the year goes to....
The Returner!
*cheezy music plays*
Now then, please give your speech of thanks and move along please.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:59 am

call it what you will.

But most people (That is those who don't need F-shots and massive amounts of spam/insults or whining) Will likely realize its the truth.

Now run along to your console, and play something more fitting to you, like spyro the dragon.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:31 am

"Run to your console"? What the hell is that? Some kind of attack against people who play console games? As if you only play your PC? As if Illarion is your life? Haha, I'm sorry to hear that.

Spyro the Dragon...heh.. that was too easy. I beat it at my younger cousin's house in a weekend.

Try a real gamer's RPG, like the .hack// series.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:21 am

Cain, it's not worth the time, if you go against the GM's you'll get all the
P-A-L's flaming you, no matter how good your points are.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:33 am

Source of slight amusement nr.1 wrote:You, and the people that are intentionally pissing me off,

Source of slight amusement nr.2 wrote:are the ones who are kissing arse.

Talking about low-brow insults.. (okay, I admit that this was so weak that I could not be offended by it.) How are these two (numbered as 1 and 2) related between eachother?

Everyone stop crying about the Gamemasters and the drought. The 'Drought' part of the quest was (as far as I know) proposed by me, not a gamemaster. Blame me as much as you want, not that I would care about your complains anyway taken that I liked the quest. That pretty much undoes the complains about gamemasters not listening to the players, huh? I like the global quests, those are nice way to stir up the game.