Economy

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:33 am

Trollsbane has a huge advantage over the three other cities (silverbrand, greenbriar, and northerot) for one simple reason in my eyes. Eliza. If the banning of an enitre cities population from another city truly happened, both would suffer economically. Right now, with northerot being citizens being banned from Trollsbane, even if northerot banned the people of trollsbane, Northerot would still suffer far greater. I think each town should be able to ahve its own npc...
Silverbrand could buy and sell blacksmithed items
Greenbriar herb and farming
northerot...well Im not too sure
and trollsbane...not sure either..
This would give each city a kind of economy of its own, and therefor make the other cities a little more important
I mean, greenbriar says only their citizens are allowed there....does that even effect anyone else? no. Instead of an entire city saying no to the island, it is just like a small piece of land you cant go on, but you could get your items elsewhere. I jsut dislike the idea of the other cities pretty much relying on Trollsbane for gold coins from Eliza. This may also help trade among players seeing as Im sure some races wouldnt want to travel to certain places.
Is this even possible to have implemented, or is it a bad idea all together?

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:03 am

hmm...and isntead of all the guilds joining lyrenzia..a trollsbane thing....There might even be established a island type alliance....where cities are joining. hmmm.....wouldnt it be neat to see a couple of cities themselves allied with each other and perhaps having tensions with the other group

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:09 am

I agree strongly with this idea. I think it would be great if each individual city had their own economy and their own items that only their NPC's sell. I'm not sure I like the idea of only that individual race being allowed in that one city but I'd like it that if the cities were just heavily influenced by a certain race. Like Greenbriar would almost always have just hobbits in it but you'd get the occasional outsider, silverbrand with dwarfs and ect.

But the overall main idea i really like. It would increase player trading and it just seems neat having to travel from place to place in illarion to get certain items, instead of just having them all at your fingertips.

Also, i don't know if this is already implemented, but would it be possible to change some of the races starting locations when a new character comes into the game. I was just thinking mainly the hobbits and dwarfs right now as they're the only ones with their own personal town.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:19 am

I dont like the idea of having gates that are locked....but however, if there is a war like that is going on now, a ban of people is fine....But it isnt just all fine and dandy...banning a large portion of your people would in fact hurt your economy....So lets say silverbrand goes to war with greenbriar....There goes all the hobbit blacksmiths if there are any....and the likely-hood of silverbrand getting potions would be alot slimer....I dunno...just with lyrenzia and the npcs...it almost is getting tot he point that if you arent with them you are screwed...lol

Drogla · Post by **Drogla** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:20 am

i like it as well
but if the EHG or Northerot stopped all others from going into their land, that would be bad for everyone else who wants good available only their
and if someone wanted something from the Silverbrand, they cant get it less a dwarf gets it for them. only dwarves can get into the silverbrand
over all, i like it

Urii Vandos · Post by **Urii Vandos** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:36 am

I see your points but I disagree with some of them.

First of all, I don't think the Evergreen Halflings would want an NPC in Greenbriar, because it would bring in unwanted visitors. As a whole, I imagine the halfling economy being based more on barter than on currency, although this may not be the case with the halflings currently, because halflings are by nature collectors and love to store things away in their hobbit holes. Bartering is perfect for their love of comfort. You exchange one item and you get something back that you wanted all the more.

Second of all, I think it makes perfect sense that Silverbrand is locked away. The dwarves are secretive and miserly in manner. If they had an NPC, it would only make the dwarves that much more rich, which they certainly don't need.

I also think there's some confusion between Trollsbane and Lyrenzia here. Although Lyrenzia's actions may make it unfair to outsiders, it's great for the game. It brings conflict, and conflict is the meat of plot. In this case, it's not the program or the makers of Illarion making it harder on the players, it's an in-game situation that's making it hard on the players and it should be an in-game situation that solves it. Since everyone is the protoganist of their own rp, consider this a conflict that your player needs to resolve, and many have been trying.

Why does Trollsbane have the only NPC's? I would say it's because Trollsbane is a profiting republic with a marketplace and a harbor.

Northerot, on the other hand, is a fringe, upstart government in a rocky, desolate location and little trade with its neighbors.

Silverbrand is less seperate from Trollsbane and more of an exclusive club for dwarves deemed worthy with a locked-away, underground location. Many of the dwarves are involved with the government of Trollsbane and bring their trade aboveground. The rest simply trade with their kinsmen, which makes both parties happy.

Greenbriar also could be explained much like Silverbrand, only with less involvement with government matters within Trollsbane but nearly as involved in trade. They prefer keeping their tiny island simple, with only houses and fields, and a single tavern. This gives outsiders little reason to visit, granting them the privacy they want.

I think the above also explains why differant races shouldn't start in their racial cities. Their racial brethren don't want them until they've proven themselves. These folks paid for their cities and they're not going to let any person just stride in and take their resources.

Before a city has a good enough rp reason to have an NPC, I think it would need at least the following: A dock, a marketplace, a cross, a tavern, and a smithy, possibley more. Without these things, a city simply wouldn't have the economy or the population to warrant full-time marketeers.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:30 am

Maybe we should let the halflings decide themselves, instead whe deciding for them. Maybe they actually want a NPC for their market. You never know unless you speak to one.

~Misjbar~

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:13 am

First, on a side note - Urii
-->>because it would bring in unwanted visitors.<<--

That REALLY does not sound halfling-like...

Anyways

There are very itneresting points here, but I think the time isn't right yet. Both Northerot and Greenbriar are relatively young. They can't be expected to have a large population yet, and as such not a very sophisticatd independent economy either. The way I see it, they are still growing, and cannot survive yet on their own. In the future (not sure how long), when enough people live there, you'd more or less expect there to be sepeate npc's, which as far as Im concerned, merely represent a strong local market.

I hope this makes a bit of sense, am very sleepy so might not

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:07 pm

the player of Grant reads about Northerot and its soon to be econmy under his regime and drools...

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:45 pm

I agree with Arkadia. Illarion needs a decentralization of the economy. Today, eveything happens inside and in near of Trolls Bane. All other areas and cities are died (there was a time when they lived?).

In my opinion, all ideas, which can hold chars in other areas would be a good idea. But how we can reach this decentralization?
Maybe it would be enough to set more npc`s. Maybe we need more start points for new chars. Maybe we need a depot system for each town. Maybe we will need some more than all of these proposals togehter.

Or do we need an other philosophy of roleplaying?
I agree, it is very hard to play outside of Trolls Bane. But i think it is not impossible. Some players only are very lazy and have no respect to others.
For example, sometimes i see people of Trolls Bane, who carry their goods to the depot of Northerot, although they are enemys of them. The players only think that they could save some minutes, if they have not to go to Trolls Bane each time, when their bag is filled. Something like that have not to be.

Maybe Lyrenzia should set a curfew for all citizen of Trolls Bane

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:50 pm

okay...at whoever said this..im tired so im not sure who...but you said "Wait until their ecenomy gets better" like getting a dock or whatever...well...frankly I just dont see it happeneing without any help.

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:54 pm

Arkadia wrote:hmm...and isntead of all the guilds joining lyrenzia..a trollsbane thing....There might even be established a island type alliance....where cities are joining. hmmm.....wouldnt it be neat to see a couple of cities themselves allied with each other and perhaps having tensions with the other group

You could try this IC, what with your new found position up North and all

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:42 pm

I saw the title "economy" and I got wondering about a somewhat different thing. Now that the ingots are gold instead of silver, wouldn't there be some deflation because gold is more prized that silver?

Derinoar Fallvictor · Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:21 pm

Grant Herion wrote:the player of Grant reads about Northerot and its soon to be econmy under his regime and drools...

Reads the messages and does the same...

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:52 pm

Grant Herion wrote:the player of Grant reads about Northerot and its soon to be econmy under his regime and drools...

Regime? I think its time to bring George Bush into the game.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:28 pm

Crosis · Post by **Crosis** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:51 pm

Mishrack wrote:First, on a side note - Urii
-->>because it would bring in unwanted visitors.<<--

That REALLY does not sound halfling-like...

To make this clear:
Would halflings want orcs (or evil characters for that matter) running around in their town? No. And that is how we are in Greenbriar. Now if someone friendly and respectfull of the property visits Greenbriar, it's not likely they would be kicked out, or asked to leave. At least I know I wouldn't play Crosis that way.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:22 am

well, greenbriars npcs could be right by their entrance...or heck..make it more fun and make it in the middle...I would say let the town decide where their merchants set up shop

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:37 am

On the contrary, with Northerot's military it would already be able to kick the snot out of Trollsbane.

I believe the NPC merchant Eliza is only there because we don't have enough players to support a full economy, and nobody would make money off their trade. Maybe the developers are waiting until we have enough players and good roleplay to support an economy, and we wouldn't need Eliza anymore?

It's obvious that the developers want this game to be mostly player ran, to increase the roleplaying atmosphere rather than some monotonous NPC repeat the same dialogue for over a year...

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:52 am

well, I have ideas for Northerot, some need ncps involved. Liek fishing, it needs an ncp who will buy and sell fishing equipment and such, otherwise it is a useless skill because no one buys fish.. at least not many people do.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:14 am

Before more palyers are added I think those server crashes and massive lag fests need to be addressed. Seems like any time I get on and there are like 20 more other people on..boom, down I go time and time again.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:15 am

Is there any way a GM like Master Martin or such could say whether or not it is possible, and maybe chime in a bit, because if there are some really good reasons not to have it done that havent been said, I will shut up.

Urii Vandos · Post by **Urii Vandos** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:34 am

Mishrack,

I didn't mean to imply that halflings don't want anyone on their land, but rather that they prefer a calm suburban environment without large crowds of outsiders stumbling through. A marketplace, especially one that sells specialty goods that can't be found in Trollsbane could be detrimental to their way of life. It would start with outsiders using the marketplace and end when outsiders started walking into their homes or using their fields.

In the case of Grant's character taking over Northerot, if he really revitalized the economy and there's good reason to believe that goods would be shipped there on a regular basis, then it would make sense for Northerot to get one buying and one selling NPC. If it becomes believable that Northerot's economy could outdo the economy of Trollsbane, then I could see more NPC's. It could be argued, however, that Northerot favors trade in items that are of low value in Trollsbane. It could be fair if their NPC's trade in different goods, though, but balance should be maintained.

One problem, though. There's a good reason for Trollsbane to have a monopoly on NPC's. It gives newbies the ability to interact with other players of whom might otherwise be off somewhere else. There should be a way to get around that, though. Maybe the trek between Northerot and Trollsbane could be made more dangerous, somehow. Possibley, though, roleplaying itself would solve that; for example, with more people moving between Trollsbane and Northerot, possibley thieves and murderers would start eyeing the way between.

~~Mitch