Dying not taken seriously

Aaron Groveburry · Post by **Aaron Groveburry** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:31 pm

Ok, I know this has been purposed before, and I tried to search for it, but I couldn't find it. So, since I can take a poll on this forum I will have to do it manually.

I think that people don't take dying seriously, they just say..."If I die trying to fight this monster, it is only once death." Not good RP at all. I say we should have a certain number of deaths once your char is gone. But then that brings up the problem of lag while fighting, or bad pkers who kill you for no reason. Here is the poll...////
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Stimmen Sie, ich weiß zu, daß dies vor purposed worden ist, und ich habe versucht, es zu suchen, aber ich könnte es finden nicht. Deshalb da ich eine Abstimmung auf diesem Forum ich nehmen kann, es werde manuell machen müssen.

Ich denke, daß Leute Sterben ernsthaft nicht nimmt, sagen sie nur. .."If, den ich Versuch zu kämpfen dieses Ungeheuer sterbe, es ist nur einmal Tod." Nicht gut RP überhaupt. Ich sage, daß wir einen gewissen Anzahl Tode einmal Ihr haben sollen, gegangen ist verkohlt. Aber dann, daß auf das Problem des Rückstands bringt, während Kämpfen, oder schlecht pkers, der Sie aus keinem Grund tötet. Hier ist die Abstimmung..

How many times of death until your char is GONE!//Wie viele Zeiten des Todes, bis Ihres verkohlt, SIND GEGANGEN!

1. One time//Eine Zeit
2. 3 times//Drei Zeiten
3. 5 times//Fünf Zeiten
4. 10 times//Zehn Zeiten
5. Never//Nie

Please post a response and leave your number you choose.//Stellen Sie bitte eine Erwiderung auf und verlassen Sie Ihre Zahl, die Sie wählen.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:53 pm

This only punishes those who are PK'ed and who are not powergaming.

Aaron Groveburry · Post by **Aaron Groveburry** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:04 pm

No, this makes the game more realistic, and people shall think before they get into a fight or go fight a demon. I changed the title so it is more fitting to the topic.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:09 pm

This can be done merely by having good roleplayers enough, and with using the 'ban' button on the rest.

Guillermo Ballesta · Post by **Guillermo Ballesta** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:34 pm

If someone plays a char for many month or even years...has friends there, or is married...and gets killed by a PK or even by an accident (misclick), and looses this char...this whould be pretty hard to understand.

I whould leave this game for sure if something like this happens.

Akario · Post by **Akario** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:35 pm

Although I am not IG yet I can tell you how bad of an idea this is. Your right, people will think twice before fighting a demon, but they will probally never do it because they are worried about losing their char that they've worked on for a long time. Also, if a character was deleted, people would have to re-apply... and personally, if I had a choice between waiting anywhere from 1 week to 2 months when I died and the choice of going to another game, I would chose the other game.

Klith · Post by **Klith** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:14 pm

I would hope my char never dies. This is very unfair, I remember town attacks ran by GM's ... one time there where demons right by the cross and there were several people being res-killed there, at least 10 people would have lost their chars then if this was in place.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:43 pm

I dont like this idea either, it's too permanent. How about a small random chance of losing 25% to 50% of all your skills. This would deter most people from sensless death but is still recoverable with time.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:55 pm

What I think they should do is... Well, listen, Kieken told me that dieing once, then coming back to fight again can get you banned, so obviously you dont want to get banned.
I propose that the Gms make a place/island/room somewhere you can only access when you die. It would be really boring with nothing in it enjoyable. It would just be a long line of tiles your character would need to walk to be able to return to the island.
So the road could be 100 tiles long? During this time the player would cool off a bit and not be hot headed and want to fight agian. And this will also let the other party of players relax and calm down a bit too.
At the end of the road then there would be a portal or something (like at drahken's castle) that the character would walk into and he would be taken to the library (the place where every character starts in the game).
What do you guys think?
Oh, and the dead character wouldn't turn into a ghost at all during this time.

Akario · Post by **Akario** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:24 pm

Perhaps while on this 'death isle' a seperate set of character bitmaps could be used that would be like a white character who is slightly transparant. It would look the same as a normal avatar, just a transparant white. Or if you don't impliment death isle, that would be a good effect for a ghost.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:58 pm

I had this same exact idea, except it's like a maze kind of, and the more you die the more obsticles you have in your way. Obviously as soon as you have so many obsticles you can't get through it, your either completely dead forever, unless a god you've been faithful to or some other reason your resurected.

Aaron Groveburry · Post by **Aaron Groveburry** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:37 am

Akario, first if you powergame then you will be sad to lose you char, but this is not a place for PGing. Also, Grant has a nice idea. But what I am aiming at is the on going story line. Because then no one can be defeated until they wish, and that doesn't give you control. Such as if Grant fought Darlok, lost he would just come back another day, or if Darlok died, he would just come back. Do you see where I am getting at?

Grubba · Post by **Grubba** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:28 am

Aaron Groveburry wrote:Such as if Grant fought Darlok, lost he would just come back another day, or if Darlok died, he would just come back. Do you see where I am getting at?

Yeah, this would happen, IF they were bad Roleplayers. Remember, this is a role playing game. Just think, if someone kills you, they have defeated you, and you dont wanna go after them again because..... well they already killed you, so they might do it again, and (in real life) you never know if you will somehow be 'brought back' by whoever you worship.

In real life, if a miracle happens and you are resurrected, you wont just go up to whoever killed you and start fighting again, because you dont wanna die again, because maybe you wont come back this time.

Akario · Post by **Akario** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:35 am

Grubba wrote:In real life, if a miracle happens and you are resurrected, you wont just go up to whoever killed you and start fighting again, because you dont wanna die again, because maybe you wont come back this time.

Yeah, unless your a maniac.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:01 am

I think that if you lost ALL of your items you are carrying, people would think twice about jumping into fights. I know it sounds harsh, but it works! some of the other MMORPGs I have played, there is a chance you can drop your items, and it is not fun going back to get them. It makes sence to drop all of your items as well with the current "death system" where your character is turned into spirit form. How can a spirit hold all that armour?

I think it would look good if you were fighting someone! all their armour drops to the floor and the spirit flies away to the cross

It would also help the economy. more people will be buying weapons because they keep droping them.

I really dont like the permenant death idea. It would solve the problem of rusing into fights, but would eventualy spoil the RP. If an important character dies, it would spoil everything that character was involved in (quest, story line etc)

Akario · Post by **Akario** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:48 am

You guys are trying to make people think twice before doing something. What's the real point? This is a GAME, it can't follow ALL the rules of RL. If it did then it'd be one boring game.

But I do reccomend losing some items. Not armor, or not all the time at least. One thing CIP did right on tibia, in my opinion, is the item loss system. Basically all containers (bookbags, etc) and their contents are lost, and there is a chance of losing an item you have equiped along with one skill being reduced

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:50 am

Yeah I'd like it if the reduction of skill was lowered and you dropped all your items, then I say go for it.

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:54 am

(in regards to the original post)

number 5, never.

I am extremely against a permenant loss of a character due to an amount of deaths. Skill loss is fine, perhaps implement item loss as the next step up from skill loss, but at least you can eventually recover from those. Permenently losing your character due to deaths would just...well it would suck, IMHO

Grubba · Post by **Grubba** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:42 am

Akario- Well if you are a maniac then you deserve to die, or at least be locked up.

Vindigan- You play Shadow Worlds or Diablo/Diablo II do you?

Perminant death idea- Don't like it. Say you lead a guild/clan and you have 1000 ingots stored up in your depot. Demons attack town. You die. You lost your last life. You lost your character, and all that money, which took months to gain. Say you are an important part of an in game quest. You are killed, and the quest cannot be completed now that you are gone forever.

I like the dead land maze thing though!

Aaron Groveburry · Post by **Aaron Groveburry** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 4:47 pm

Grubba, my point is that Darlok will still reign, therefore Grant's fight will be meaningless. But if Grant died, then Grant wouldn't fight darlok again..that makes sense. And it seems that the God's in this game are too merciful by bringing every person back to life that died by a zombie or any other monster.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 4:59 pm

I would hate this idea.

For anybody that wants to roleplay, especially a dramatic story, death is pretty much unavoidable in Illarion. Cain died simply because somebody was hired to assassinate him, and he was killed as soon as he logged in. I was killed countless times after my blackstoning around Trollsbane. Ever character has been killed at least once (or at least almost every character). Darlok was even slain before by hobbits during the war against them with Xerake. Heck, even my fairly new character was killed at the beginning of his birth when he was an aspiring swordsman who got a bit too close to some vigilante hobbit-mage and zombies.

Therefore, there would be no characters around long if this were implemented...

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:07 pm

Vindigan wrote:I think that if you lost ALL of your items you are carrying, people would think twice about jumping into fights. I know it sounds harsh, but it works! some of the other MMORPGs I have played, there is a chance you can drop your items, and it is not fun going back to get them. It makes sence to drop all of your items as well with the current "death system" where your character is turned into spirit form. How can a spirit hold all that armour?

I think it would look good if you were fighting someone! all their armour drops to the floor and the spirit flies away to the cross It would also help the economy. more people will be buying weapons because they keep droping them.

I really dont like the permenant death idea. It would solve the problem of rusing into fights, but would eventualy spoil the RP. If an important character dies, it would spoil everything that character was involved in (quest, story line etc)

And lose my wand, firesword, mirror, and other rare items that cost more than 20 ingots or so to get back? No thank you.

You see, I need my wand to fight. I need my firesword to fight. There would be no point in having "rare" weapons if I could easily lose them because I overestimate my opponent.

The solution for dying is just to roleplay right. There. End of story. Just use common sense, and think of the roleplaying before your character.

That, and there are town attacks, lag deaths, and ogres that bash players to death all the time because of fatigue.

The skill loss is already penalty enough, there shouldn't be adjustments on the death issue anymore.

However, if I were to change it, I would like Grant's idea. But if that were implemented, then I would suggest no more skill loss anymore. Why? Because the player that killed you in a duel wouldn't have to be afraid of some moron resurrecting and attacking again, so there would be no need to double the punishment. And, players wouldn't return immediately to begin powergaming once again. (The 5**** characters that are able to beat up most experienced players still irks me)

I think if there's somebody that is roleplay death/duel improperly, they should simply get disciplinary action with the GMs. Why can't punishment be an untechnical thing?

Willem Time · Post by **Willem Time** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:22 pm

You see though if Grant fought Darlok and won it would only be good roleplay for Darlok to lose his postion as a ruler. But then after the battle darlokwould be able to grovel in a hole or something in till he has recovered enough to fight because it would be horrible roleplay to pop right back up and start fighting again
you could do is make health regame slower or lose your manaso you would have to wait and make a battle fatiuge system so your charactor would slow down have less a chance of blocking less magical effects etc.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:24 pm

I know this is more third post in a row here, but ideas keep coming to mind that deserve a seperate posting IMO.

Anyway, Aaron's idea would be a good one, if this were, say, a first person game where death wasn't common all the time; but it is in Illarion. Realistically, death doesn't come so darn easily with everybody.

So, here would be my idea on the death issue that would make permanent death a good idea:

You don't necessarily get "killed" if you are in a dungeon full of monsters like demon skeletons. Let's say, instead, you get knocked out and remain trapped in that dungeon or cave until somebody comes to rescue you, make you wake up from your unconciousness somehow. It would be boring for the player that was defeated/exhausted in battle, so that would be a good penalty. And, you wouldn't be able to wake up after a certain time limit, so people wouldn't help another person powergame, waking them up constantly.

Basically, when your health is fully gone, you remain unconcious, not dead. This goes for duels as well. And you wouldn't be able to wake up until after a long period of time, and somebody would wake you up.

The only way death would come, permanently I believe, is if you fight and get knocked out too often; it's very unhealthy for you, so it's common sense to let yourself recover after such a defeat or such. For example, demon cave, get knocked out. Then as soon as you recover, you begin to fight again, and get knocked out. Doing this too often in short periods of time should kill you permanently.

Anybody else like this?

Akario · Post by **Akario** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:12 pm

no, I don't like that idea either. Please think if a char was deleted how long it takes to sign back up! Eventually all of the players patience would wear thin. Also, I think the current system is just fine, of course the death isle idea is nice too.

Derinoar Fallvictor · Post by **Derinoar Fallvictor** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:33 pm

Hmm, I played a game called El for a while and when you died you where sent to a underworld/hell type place which before you could leave you'd had to find the way out.

Klith · Post by **Klith** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:05 pm

Bloodhearte wrote:

you get knocked out and remain trapped in that dungeon

The only problem with this is; if you were in a dungeon and you were knocked out, most monsters (rot worms, spiders, demons, ogres etc) would be impelled to eat you. I doubt this would apply for skelletons though, having no digestive system I doubt they would feel hungry.

Here is my proposal:

When alive you can go to the nearest temple or other sacred place which is aligned to whichever God you worship. Here you pray to raise your 'appeasement' level with that God, you must pray at least once every week to appease your God so that if you die they will have the mercy to bring you to life again. If your appeasement level is too low then you are sent to a place like 'hell' where your character is tortured. While you are tortured you lose some of your skills (some more than others) untill the God's feel you have been punished enough for your lack of worship and you are ressurected. The time tortured could be determined by how low your appeasement level is.

It would make people more respectful to the God's and as some of the better roleplayers already pray, they would be least effected, but considering they are the better roleplayers they would already take death seriously enough.

Any thoughs or criticism?

Edits: Spelling and grammar.

Aaron Groveburry · Post by **Aaron Groveburry** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 am

Klith...this is a great idea.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:08 pm

Simple, easy solution. Get rid of the crosses. When you die, you disappear and are logged out of Illarion. You cannot log back in for, hm..i dunno ...an hour? half an hour? So there is your punishment...you wont lose skill or items, but it shall prevent you from just popping back up. Only thing is I am a jerk and I would say make it a 24 hour process....I figure it would take a while for a body to ressurect and all. This would also prevent spawnkilling.

Caranthir the great · Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:12 pm

Good idea, Arkadia.

If the system would be 24 hours, then there might perhaps be a option for Gm's to cancel the punishment in case the person was PK'ed.