Skill Decay - Cody had a point.

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Fri Apr 13, 2001 9:01 pm

Hello,

This mightbe one of my overly long post's again so just incase I'll appologize now.

I just read Cody's post about skills. Does anyone really know how language skills work? I don't think they are used presently "So don't make them go away if we can't keep them trained!"
Next comes the Skill Decay in general.

Honestly I havent noticed my skills go down, I pretty much practice enough to keep them the same I assume.
Question 1) When we are NOT online playing in the game do our skills drop?

Question 2) Should skills still drop while you are practicing them?

Here are my thoughts.

Skill drop a bit fast. Perhaps the system is good, but just though of the wrong way.

Presently It seems "I used alot of assumptions that I make from logic since I didn't program it" That the Decay happens by hour or time while in Illarion playing. That allows skills to drop unless you use them... so what if I am mining most the day for money and don't fight for a day. Should my stats drop by 5% that seems alittle much.

Why not have stats drop even if not online ' however instead of calculating the decay by Illarion time, do it in inciments... Every 6 to 12 hours your skills will drop a certain amount. You must always train to keep them up.
I would say every day, but that would not regulate what the system was made for well.

Secondly, as the system is now. You can be fighting or training a skill and at the same time your skill goes down.

This is a difficult problem to have a good balance. I hope other players can list some ideas or opinions. Hopefully they will stay on subject.

Seeya in the fields.

<-- Merc for Hire -->

Schattenfeuer · Post by **Schattenfeuer** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 1:07 pm

I think the skills should decrase a certain time after the last time you used them, so if you use a skill often it wont drop. And I think the higher a skill is the faster i should drain, so that in needs a lot of time to keep this skill on a high level, and that you need nearly all your time to keep your skill next to mastership( Skilllevel 90+ ), and that its nearly take for ever to forget a skill completly.
This would make it nearly impossible to make alrounders that can cast spells as good as the best mage and that can fight as good as a good fighter, while wearing selfcrafted high quality items.

And i dont think that your stats should drop if you are of line. this would punish the people, who aren't playing Illarion often and therefore have already have low skills. And even if you are online often your char will be ruined if you are in (a?) vacation.

Alexander · Post by **Alexander** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 5:06 pm

i don't see how skills should diminish unless you get hurt badly(ie. dying) because skills like minning and fighting are inherent and would not diminish unless it is over many years time. i think if you don't use a skill it should decrease in increments so that after a certain period of time it would disappear. maybe i'll make myself more clear if you don't use minning for 4 hours of playing you lose one fourth of your skill and after 16 hours on not using, but still playing you would have no more minning skill left. these are just general outlines, but i think it would be a good and fair system. this way you have a chance to keep your skills up without them all dropping. i just don't like the fact that if i don't get attacked my perry will drop.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Mon Apr 16, 2001 9:38 pm

As you say, language skills have no use right now. Why should we write aditional code to stop them from decaying, if it has no effect on the game?
Of course the skills don't drop if you are offline, and we don't inted to do it that way.
Right now, your skills drop while practicing too, but they also rise by practice. I don't think the problem of losing one point of skill and gaining two in the next two minutes is so big, we need to care about.
The skills decay equaly, no matter if they are high or low. This makes it hard to keep the skill to mastership too, because the skills rise slower in the higher regions.

Silversmith · Post by **Silversmith** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:33 pm

The increments for the skills decreasing should be dependant on the skill and on inteligence. For example i know a skill very well like black smithing that requires inteligence to plan what i am going to make. If you do not have a high inteligence the skills that might require it decrease faster. But skills that the body program into reflexs like fighting should not be easily forgoten. I take a skill and program it into my subconscience it be comes reallity before i can think about it. So it would then depend on the body so these stats should depend heavily on if you die or not. Reflexs and Jobs difer in the way they stay in your mind. Fighting skills are more reflex then anything. You do not think what will be my next move in battle you just do it as you have trained to do it. It is not a conscience move on your part and will take quite some time unless you die to forget it. But a job or profession if not kept up with can rapidly decrease if you do not have the mental capacity to retain it. So a fighter who wants to still do something with his life would pick intelegence still so he does not forget it. Skills should eventually not decrease if they have been used in the aloted time. And the time should differ depending on the complexity of the skill. If you see holes in my thinking please ask. I might not have written it down but i have this topic well thought out in my head.

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:25 pm

I begin to understand Bror, I have no complaints

Except one

Silver you just confused the bloody hell out of me.

=)

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 8:08 am

Bror, you said before :

"Of course the skills don't drop if you are online, and we don't inted to do it that way"

Hmmm, do you mean "offline", Bror ? I hope my skills don't sink when i have a little vacancy ? Uhm...
=)

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 8:31 am

sure I mean offline

I will edit my text above

Kjallha · Post by **Kjallha** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:31 pm

Hey Bror, I was thinking and wanted ot put this out on the table.

I think the Skill decay might be slightly too fast. If you consider Illarion was suppose to be a place of roleplay and not hack and slash, but you must fight very often just to keep your skills from going down... hmm that kills alittle player interaction. Also what about traders later on? They may work alot to get thier items, and for days trade and sell things. By the time they need to get more items thier skills are down much. Not to mentioned if they develpoed some fighting skills to defened themselves against thieves how fast that would drop.

Maybe slow down the decay by about 25%

Just a suggestion and I think the reasoning behind it is ok.

I'm anxious to see what you think.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 7:20 pm

maybe it is still too fast and must be reduced, but I think your argumentation is wrong:
Why should a trader keep his fighting skills up? He buys goods from one and sells to another. His skill is talking people into buying something expensive.

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:13 am

Maybe I used the wrong word.. hmm maybe treassure hunter?

Umm, A person who deals in also rare or expensive items "which hopefully soon would take much courage and skill and intelligence to gain"

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:40 am

Yeah Bror, but every merchant NEEDS at least a bit fighting skills, think of the guys he sells to who see that they payed too much for a thing that is not worth the half.... *ggg*

I mean, somehow he must defend against THE MOB....
=)

What i mean is, a trader who is rich can afford to pay his fighters, and wear expensive clothings... but in some cases, or in duels, he must know how to handle weapons a bit. And the poorer traders who cannot afford an escort need to watch themselves out

Dax' point is very good. I myself enjoy much roleplaying - with the effect that some of my skills just vanished. I have to smith, train or cast within a talk to keep em up and going, and the magic skills, to keep these up, i have to drink one mana potion after another... i guess magic skills only sink from dying ? Well, i am working to make up that loss again...

so watch out i may cast from ceilings to unpopulated places... hehehe....

(Edited by Damien at 12:45 am on April 19, 2001)

Alexander · Post by **Alexander** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:21 am

i think that it does leave specialist people such as smiths and carpenters who do not regularly get into fights or train defenseless eventually, which would require more protective fighting forces which are not in high supply right now anyway. i think it is a good system, but a little too far along for the level of game play at this time. maybe set a limit that the skills can not drop below a certain point like half of your highest level for that skill. half is just a general idea i'm by no means saying it has to be half.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:58 pm

Well, in medieval times, a soldier had to know how to repair his weaponry and armor, Knights also had to know how to handle and care for horses. That's why they all were knaves before, learn to handle horses and stuff. Some minor ironwork repairs had to be done from the soldiers themselves on the fields. And leatherworking was even more necessary for fighters... Just for repairs. They had some specialists in armys, but most stuff had to be doine by the users himself...
So, one job just includes several others partially.

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 4:07 am

I feel very strongly about skill decay and argument about the trader needing his fighting skills and working hard only for them to decay and leaving him open to attck is a valid one. Heres is a true example (its about me)

My character in the game is a carpenter so most of my game time is spent honing my skills of the craft and lumberjaking, which means I dont get to fight or train much so any skill i have in this area is important to me but alas they deacy (which is a good game feature) but to fast. For when ever I go into town I am constantly threatend by PK's and often killed to which make keeping my carpentry skill (which is vital to my charaters story and living in the game) very hard to keep up to a standard. So what does one do? leave the carpentry to take up arms? If my skills decay to fast (especialy fighting which is hard to develop if ur a specialist in a certain tarde) then ur constantly going to be practicing the same skill level over and over again coz of it, but at the same time I say we still need skill decay especialy in the craft skills because people who play like me as a manafacturer strugle to make money coz everybody make the stuff them selfs, so i recon trade skill should decay a little faster than others so as to stop people making everything they need them selfs thus making master crafts men a comodity in the game and their skills valuble as appose to just being another matered skill. This will also bring an economy into the game with the master crafts men of same trades compeating with each other for the best competative price to sell their goods at.

Right i know ive rambled on for a bit and slightly contradicted my self but there only ideas so take em a seriously as u like. its a tricky subject this.

Peace Keeper · Post by **Peace Keeper** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 4:24 am

skills decay... never seem to notice that... does that also mean if I were to say... start to seat on my butt and chat my head off for a couple hours, I can lose my skills completely???? What am I ever gonna do~~~!!!! I cant help myself from stop chatting!!! ..... right... what do we have to worry? The skill drop is usual, we don't need worry about that at all... the current drop rate is so very little and it's not effecting us much anyways... Guys shouldn't have to worry about losing skills...

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:56 am

There is no skill decay over time (except for dying).

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 11:00 am

Hehe check the date on a topic and last post before you bring it up again

Skill decay was gone ages ago.

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 7:33 pm

Every thing makes a come back Dyluck just look at fashon from the 60's and hair cuts from the 70's

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:34 am

Then are you saying we should bring back skill decay? Of course not.
But maybe now Bror will bring back skill decay just because you brought this topic back up and gave him some new idea

dragonsoul · Post by **dragonsoul** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:55 pm

wow this is an old post...it might be older than me lol