Two Questions about the Rules/Game

Leothorn Broadleaf · Post by **Leothorn Broadleaf** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:28 am

1. Why is powergaming illegal? I understand that this is supposed to be roleplay, but if Illarion were real...(the goal of roleplay), there are people who would be "power trainers". I mean, in real life, there are some people that have extraordinary strength because of intense physical activities...'training' at a young age.

2. Why are there no experience points? Is there any other way that defines how experienced your character may be other than your stats?

I was just a little confused about those two things.

//Leothorn Broadleaf

Crosis · Post by **Crosis** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:41 am

1.If there is good roleplaying behind doing something, it's not powergaming.

You can roleplay a "power trainer" if you wish, but as soon as you start killing things for unrealistic amounts of time, it's powergaming.

2.There are experience points. You just don't know exactly how good you are at something, for your skills are shown in shades of red.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:59 am

1.If you have extrodinary training as a child, let your character's starting stats show it. People can only train for an amount of time before getting tired, its just how it is. Training for the sole purpose of gaining skill an unreasonable amount of time is, powergaming. Some days my character works harder than normal perhaps because he has to fill an order, there will be a shortage of something soon, or he almost has enough money to buy something he really wants.

2.It is also defined when you read the book of self-awareness, it tells you in adjectives what your skill is. Such as "You are a grandmaster in the craftsmanship of blacksmithing", or, "You are a raw-recruit in the art of parry".

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:19 am

This is a RP and we don't bear PG!
You may increase your possibilities but only by staying in the game not only for max your skills.

Rynt · Post by **Rynt** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:40 am

Why don't you Roleplay a power trainer? Stand in the middle of town and do combat drills, practicing thrusts, and then do a little practical training, like fighting a few mummies ( Notice I said a few )

Bjorn Baleyg · Post by **Bjorn Baleyg** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:19 pm

That's actually a good way to do it, and pretty accurate too. Think of a modern fencer - they spend a lot more time drilling on their own than actually fighting someone.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:23 pm

Every character has to earn a living. And he will get bored fencing ALL DAY. And hungry. And tired. And he will like a good talk with others.

Training is not allowed in town by town laws - it is too dangerous if two people swing around their weapons when a third person can walk around the building edge or stumble and get into their way.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:51 pm

Damien, you live in germany, unless you want to come over to the middle of the usa and enforce it, I will continue.

It is not against any ooc rules to fight in town.

Nyntar Beliothiel · Post by **Nyntar Beliothiel** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:50 pm

No Gro'bul, it is not against any ooc rules but it is against town law which is strictly enforced by Lyrenzia. If someone could prove before the Lyrenzia court that you were fighting in town, you could be sentenced to a mandatory retreat to the villa known as prison. That is only if you're brought before the court and proven guilty however, and all this must be witnessed in-game to do so. As for rping this, sure you could say that there is nobody online and therefore none to catch you at your sparring if this is the case, but if holding true to honorable rp you must realize that the town is not deserted as it seems because no players are online, it is still full, they are just indisposed at the moment. Sleeping or gallivanting wistfully in groves of trees under the starlight or what have you. People are still around and you could potentially be witnessed committing this crime even if there are no other players online. This is one important fact that I have noticed most "outlaws" seem to forget. Once the town is free of characters they walk in and continue on with their normal lives as if they have every right to be there just because nobody has chased them away yet. A town guard should see them unless they are evaded in some rp way. A humble beggar could see them as he wakes from sporadic coughing as he slowly succumbs to TB. The town is always full, even when it's empty.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:40 pm

You forget Nyntar that nothing needs to be proven ingame in a court of Lyrenzia. I know plenty of people who got jailed by lies and others that got out because of lies. lies in character of course.

Nyntar Beliothiel · Post by **Nyntar Beliothiel** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:22 am

Grant, I think you're a little confused on the topic of roleplaying a judicial trial. If they are to be convicted or released of their crime in question, the accused and/or accuser(s) must in this game, as in life, prove to the court officials or jury that their side of the story is correct. They may of course do this through lies or other such means, but their case is still proven. Saying that the court finds it to be true doesn't necessarily mean that it is true. They are judged based on the information provided. The side that wins the case has proven their case more proficiently and sufficiently than the side that lost, and this is what caused them to win. Thus, they have given sufficient proof as to their claims, even if what they provided was untrue. The truth of the words spoken is for the ones deciding the case to decide. This is all rather obvious and I’m surprised you would think this some shocking news.

I was only relating to Gro’bul that he should keep in mind that even though there are no characters in town while he is training, there are witnesses. These should be roleplayed of course since they cannot be seen. Now, if he does make the mistake of breaking the in-game laws and a real character does witness them, he could be put on trial and it would then be up to himself and the accuser(s) to prove their case against him. Naturally someone could make false accusations against anyone else or false claims in court in their own defense. Any child could understand this much, but thank you for pointing it out to me since it bares no relevance to the point I was making and is also common knowledge.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:31 am

You forget Nyntar that unlike in real life, players of this game like to have drama because that is what makes this game fun. So, some judges will convict certain persons because the judge has something against a certain person. Such as Tialdin will always vote guilty on Fooser and Arkadia; no matter the evidence.

Nyntar Beliothiel · Post by **Nyntar Beliothiel** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:43 am

Wake up Grant. That happens in real life as well. Judges are bought off, hold grudges against certain individuals, juries are threatened, witnesses suddenly become missing. This is obviously not the norm, but it does happen.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:45 am

And than 9 times out of 10, someone digs up the dirty laundry. But, because people in Illarion can conduct trades out of game, this isn't going to happen, is it? You'll be lucky if you here of 1 of these cases out of a million.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:54 am

Judges get bribed yes but not for the same reason lyrenzia judges do anyways... Either way, we both proved our points.

Leetha · Post by **Leetha** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:57 am

Sorry to interrupt guys, but I think what Nyntar's point was that, in the example of a bad society element, if this person was being searched for his deeds and were cast out of town because of it's rules, and if this person was playing it's real role he would probably try to hide on the outskirts of town instead of going in town and act like a commoner, just because no other player is around. Town should be seen as a place where people are living, and whether or not there are players in town, one should be expected to keep his role once the character is in Illarion and living it's life.

Nyntar Beliothiel · Post by **Nyntar Beliothiel** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:59 am

True, Paul, with regards to a large market area in current day society. It would be much harder to hide the dirty deeds of some when there are many looking on, but in a smaller forum such as a medieval court ruling over a single town, which is what Lyrenzia does in this game, it would be very easy to cover over the tracks if one wished to do so. If you question their rulings you find yourself in prison. We're not talking about modern day society here, Paul, I was relating to Grant that officials do not always make the honorable decision for many reasons in real life, as they don't in the game. Now, in the time period of this game such a thing would be more prevalent as it could be covered up easier. In a larger forum it wouldn’t even need to be covered up unless desired, the latter making life easier for all in question in the long run of course, however the King would rule and his decision would remain final, or whatever dictator or monarch or what have you, held the throne or ultimate power. That is not to say it happened all the time, but it did happen and was more widely known, yet there was very little you could do about it unless you had better connections to power than those who were involved, which is doubtful.

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:22 am

Actually Grant, I don't get your point at all, in regard to what your opinion of how fair the court is has to do with the topic of roleplaying properly in a town full of people. It sounds like you're just trying to bad mouth Lyrenzia again for whatever personal reason since all you talked about is how you think the court is unfair and judges can be bribed or hold grudges, which has nothing to do with Nyntar's point. The point is criminals should be worried about witnesses and bystanders in town that could land them in jail. The fact that you think bribery and lies might also land one in jail doesn't change the previous point.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:58 am

For minor offenses, who's really going to call Lyrenzia if it doesn't affect them? If you see someone driving 5 miles per hour above the speed limit by your house, are you really going to call the police?

Also, the more townspeople there are, the more people against Lyrenzia there are. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone is in favor of whatever cause you are in favor of just because they aren't there.

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:10 am

paul laffing wrote:For minor offenses, who's really going to call Lyrenzia if it doesn't affect them? If you see someone driving 5 miles per hour above the speed limit by your house, are you really going to call the police?

Also, the more townspeople there are, the more people against Lyrenzia there are. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone is in favor of whatever cause you are in favor of just because they aren't there.

So then why do you make the same opposite mistake of saying more townspeople means more people against Lyrenzia?

In any case, "Lyrenzia" is irrelevant to the point. The factor is "crime". More people equals more witnesses to crime. Whether it's Lyrenzia that comes after you for it or whether it's someone else, witnessess and bystanders still equal trouble for criminals in town. Any criminal should still have to tread extremely cautiously in town and avoid main places.

And what do you mean "minor offenses"? I would equate that maybe with "towncasting" as small vadalism. I don't think murder is going to go unnoticed by bystanders though.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:21 am

I think the point is, if a wanted muderer walks into town, when no human player is online, he can go around town, as if no one is there, they can use the shops, and they do use the shop, forrgetting that the shop keepers, would probally call for the gaurds if it was real life, and then they leave town again, and they can say what they did was ok because no human characters were there to catch them.