Item analysis

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:45 pm

Item analysis

Dear players,

we have conducted a quick analysis of player inventories. We considered only characters that logged in this year and have a minimum online time of 10 hours. The results are pretty surprising, but see for yourself.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ouwxa ... 3GF0fUfAZn

I would like to start an open discussion about the results. I don't want this to become a nerf contest because I think we should be happy that some of the mechanics of Illarion are well used and obviously enjoyable. Still, I would like to collect points that suprise you, that you consider odd and what your observations are in general. Note that "Player 1" is just a placeholder and is used for different players in different diagrams.

I'll start with one point to give the discussion a spark: What the Moshran can a single character do with 700.000 red elder :shock:?

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Post by Katharina Brightrim » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:13 pm

Re: Item analysis

May I point out the following proposal that was addressed against such a behavior?

viewtopic.php?p=711133#p711133


That's my opinion about the result of your analysis. Point 3, it is.

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Post by Vern Kron » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Item analysis

You know, honestly, most of this stuff makes a ton of sense to me.

I can understand where a majority of these items show up, as well as why.

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:04 pm

Re: Item analysis

I honestly don't understand this intense aversion to item hoarding. So I mean to challenge it.

First we have to get into the mind of the hoarder. Why is he/she hoarding? Do they have plans for something they want to do in the future? Are they perhaps a leading role and thus supply things to members of a group or guild? Are they just bored and hoarding things on their spare time?

Eh?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:37 pm

Re: Item analysis

I would like stress that this is not about nerfing, preventing or punishing but about understanding.

Like whicker baskets: they cannot be sold nor donated, so people keep them. In a similar way I would like to understand why other items are stored in high quantities. The aspect of town leaders storing items for building projects was also identified.

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Post by Lia » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:57 pm

Re: Item analysis

Possible reasons why people hoard items .:

- They do not want to have to interrupt her work all the time in order to collect material again.

- They want to have enough material if someone wants to buy something.

- They are collecting for a profession which they would like to learn later.
- They collect for the guild / order / house in which their character is.
- They collect to have material for building projects in stock.

- They collect to have something to sell in case of financial need.
- They collect because she or her character is simply greedy or likes to collect things.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:14 pm

Re: Item analysis

Very good points, Lia. Can you correlate these points to specific items?

Here is the complete top 20 for non-stackable items. Note we evaluated the inventory of 163 characters.

treasure map 15542
violet potion 9595
golden diamond ring 8663
wicker basket 7659
red potion 5333
leather bag 3882
horn 2753
rope 1711
king's crown 1552
silver obsidian amulet 1508
sickle 1333
charm of the icebird 1274
hammer 1208
pick-axe 1196
golden topaz amulet 1171
bottle of beer 1138
elven composite longbow 1027
broadsword 948
shovel 929
peel 901

And here are the stackables:

red elder 797611
stone 607403
arrow 489120
copper coins 348248
silver coins 259814
gold nuggets 230557
honeycomb 210401
blackberry 188973
bough 180807
naldor wood 175488
coal 156940
anger berry 156271
apple 141698
flour 140014
cherries 126450
strawberry 123379
iron ingot 123340
berries 121314
stone block 109657
copper ingot 109517

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Post by Vern Kron » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:15 pm

Re: Item analysis

treasure map 15542 - Many of the smaller treasure maps are not worth the trouble for people to get, but they also do not want to throw them away.
violet potion 9595 - Potions and healing items are always hoarded in every game.
golden diamond ring 8663 - If I remember correctly, golden diamond rings were used to scale from level 90 to 100 in goldsmithing.
wicker basket 7659 - A way to organize a small order of goods.
red potion 5333 - Red potions are useful for training. Guilds will store them up for new members.
leather bag 3882 - The common means of storing items.
horn 2753 - I honestly have no idea. Cows drop them sometimes?
rope 1711 - Ropes are used in very specific situations, and may be dropped from some things if I remember. However, it is rarely worth it to go and sell the rope, so it is stored.
king's crown 1552 - One of the more profitable items goldsmithing, usually made and stored until a proper time to sell.
silver obsidian amulet 1508 - A use for both obsidian and silver, which at times can be over flowing.
sickle 1333 - Not sure why there are so many, one of my characters has three.
charm of the icebird 1274 - A popular status symbol.
hammer 1208 - An average of 7 hammers per person. With different individuals expecting to build, or to build in the future, hammers are often stockpiled.
pick-axe 1196 - Mining is a common activity for when there are few people around, or when a person wants to mindlessly do something. And if a person ever decides to dig a map, it might be needed.
golden topaz amulet 1171 - Valuable goldsmithing item.
bottle of beer 1138 - People buy a fair bit of beer for rp purposes, or make it.
elven composite longbow 1027 -An item previously used for leveling in carpentry.
broadsword 948 - ^ except for blacksmithing.
shovel 929 - People collect sand/clay, but a fair portion will keep atleast one shovel in a depot, if not one in every town, for map digging reasons.
peel 901 - People want to bake the bread.

And here are the stackables:

red elder 797611 - red elders are one of the easiest to find herbs, so they are gathered frequently to scale up herblore.
stone 607403 - Nearly useless item, that is gathered in every mine. It just collects.
arrow 489120 - Arrows get burned through so quickly, it is important to have a ton of them.
copper coins 348248 - This is actually just 34 gold spread across a large number of characters. Just loose change, basically.
silver coins 259814 - This is 1,593 per person. People are willing to trade in some silver, so it's not uncommon to have atleast a couple hundred silver ready for trade usages.
gold nuggets 230557 - Gold nuggets accumulate when looking for merinium.
honeycomb 210401 - I am not for sure on this one. It's used for cooking, as well as candle making.
blackberry 188973 - Used in food, and maybe potions? (Not sure). Fairly easy to get as well.
bough 180807 - These are gathered from a ton of different kinds of trees, and just accumulate. Not nearly as bad as stone.
naldor wood 175488 - Naldor wood is gathered in the process of going for heartwood. It is a less popular resource than merinium, and only shows up in a couple specific instances, as opposed to stone which shows up in every mine.
coal 156940 - All ingots require coal. There is no escaping a need for coal as a smith.
anger berry 156271 - Not sure.
apple 141698 - Apples were previously collected during the 'do little while mc drops' phase. It gave players something to do, while their mc lowered. Having a solid back up food supply isn't a bad idea either.
flour 140014 - Tons of cooking recipes require flour, in the same way that ingots require coal.
cherries 126450 - Same as apples, but less cherry trees exist.
strawberry 123379 - Strawberry cakes are a staple of many diets.
iron ingot 123340 - Iron is used in blacksmithing and armor making, in huge amounts. It's nothing to use 30 pieces of iron in pursuit of a perfect crafted item.
berries 121314 - Not sure, but probably cooking related.
stone block 109657 - Refining stone blocks were a good way to sit at the depot and do something, while not having to do much at all.
copper ingot 109517 - Copper is used a little in all forms of metal working, and is useful to have a few on hand when needed.

As for /why/ characters do it,
Fictionally, it makes a ton of sense. A large bulk of our characters went from close to nothing, or had plenty and it was stripped of them, to learning to survive. Most characters in game are hoarders. Honestly, I find the beginning of the game exceedingly difficult for different character types for different reasons. That leads to a feeling of scarcity, which in turn feeds the need to collect /everything/.
More so, what else is there to do in illarion when there aren't people around? Sorry, but emoting by myself isn't something that is that interesting to me. At least if I am in game, and no one is around, I can collect items while I am tabbed out doing something else.
I could, of course, go hunting or fight some monsters, but that turns me away from people still. Further, if I am not in an ultra-safe position, then fighting isn't really worth it. I might get a little bit of coin, and a bunch of broken junk that no one wants, to sell to an npc for a smattering of copper.
So I collect things. Usually with a long standing goal, or one that I made up. "Better get 1000 apples incase we get besieged by skeletons again!" I wish I was kidding, but that is how my character views the world. At literally any given moment, any terrible thing could happen, so we have to be prepared for darn near anything.
But also, sometimes I am bored, or work was annoying, or whatever. So I really just want to wander the woods and milk some cows, or collect some berries.

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Post by Evie » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:16 pm

Re: Item analysis

Vern Kron wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:15 pm

As for /why/ characters do it,
Fictionally, it makes a ton of sense. A large bulk of our characters went from close to nothing, or had plenty and it was stripped of them, to learning to survive. Most characters in game are hoarders. Honestly, I find the beginning of the game exceedingly difficult for different character types for different reasons. That leads to a feeling of scarcity, which in turn feeds the need to collect /everything/.
More so, what else is there to do in illarion when there aren't people around? Sorry, but emoting by myself isn't something that is that interesting to me. At least if I am in game, and no one is around, I can collect items while I am tabbed out doing something else.
I could, of course, go hunting or fight some monsters, but that turns me away from people still. Further, if I am not in an ultra-safe position, then fighting isn't really worth it. I might get a little bit of coin, and a bunch of broken junk that no one wants, to sell to an npc for a smattering of copper.
So I collect things. Usually with a long standing goal, or one that I made up. "Better get 1000 apples incase we get besieged by skeletons again!" I wish I was kidding, but that is how my character views the world. At literally any given moment, any terrible thing could happen, so we have to be prepared for darn near anything.
But also, sometimes I am bored, or work was annoying, or whatever. So I really just want to wander the woods and milk some cows, or collect some berries.
Ditto

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Post by Brightrim » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:55 pm

Re: Item analysis

Vern Kron wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:15 pm
golden diamond ring 8663 - If I remember correctly, golden diamond rings were used to scale from level 90 to 100 in goldsmithing.
Golden diamond rings could make you about 10 silver profit per ring when buying ore and raw gems from merchants.

So an unlimited amount of raw diamonds and ore from the merchants (I still want to see npcs have limited stock per week, personally), combined with the prices, allowed diamond rings to be the ideal gold grind in Cadomyr. Combined with the relatively high price per ring, it was also a perfect target for investment to avoid taxes.
Buy the materials
->
Make them into diamond rings over time
->
Only sell enough rings for the material you want to buy, while keeping the rest
->
Grind infinite money in the safety of town while dodging taxes.

Then with the change and balancing of the crafting systems pricing
(Great job on that btw, devs. It was weird being able to profit off of buying and selling to npcs with no gathering or other players involved)
this method went away, so I reckon 8500ish of those rings are probably remains from the PGers of those times.

So the pricing issue was fixed, but I still see issues from that example:

Taxes: People hoard to avoid them. Is this metagaming? Should it be fixed via coding, an ooc rule, or in game measures? Or is it not a problem that our characters for some reason find a loop hole to avoid paying coins to the realm, then mostly ignore it in RP?

Unlimited resources: It might be pricey, and you won't make a profit from it anymore, but should it really be possible to buy infinite resources from an npc? I think it'd be nice if the npc merchants had limited stock that resets every in game month, and that items you sell to npcs would increase the stock, while items you buy decrease it. Both for increased realism, and the impact on the market in forcing players to interact more.


But I agree with Vern Kron on the hoarding and grinding. I see no point in emoting by myself, and it's counter-productive to go away from town to do something when wanting RP, so I usually end up grinding something in or right by town in case some RP opportunity arises.
Or just standing there, toying with my bag to prevent the client thinking I'm idle, because why not lower MC while I'm logged in in the first place.
Might as well give myself the illusion that I'm not just wasting my time.

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