Sorry

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Post by Banduk » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:26 am

Sorry

Ich habe überlegt, ob ich das hier in meiner Muttersprache schreibe, mich aber dagegen entschieden.

Please excuse the bad English. I did not want to write this text in my native language, which half of the readers do not understand.

I’ve asked the staff to remove me from the staff. My request was met. Sad to say now my finished but not yet published packages such as collection chests, glyph forging, artifact magic and some minor changes most probably will not find a way into the game.

The short version why I want to stop working for Illarion is simple:
I don’ believe in Illarion anymore. I think Illarion dies and I don’t think the responsible staff is able to change the situation.
I don't want to leave and I feel very bad leaving.

In detail:
1. Illarion is being developed to die sooner or later
Illarion once had a unique feature. But with time this single selling point was watered down while other powerful games discovered just that.
Instead of strengthening the one and only argument to play Illarion the staff focused on the doomed task to catch up in graphics and handling to top titles. That way Illarion became ordinary and exchangeable.
Take the VBU. From the point of the first announcement and introducing VBU rules the player numbers dropped dramatically to a much lower level. And the roll out of the VBU gave the game a short stray fire just to end where it was before. So far all the work invested into the VBU looking worthless from the point of effectivity for the total game. (see https://illarion.org/statistics/de_hist ... layers.php)
It's idle to be upset about this, but hard-to-change structures and endless static quests do not improve the role-play.
The possibility of creating something unique with the VBU was awarded in favor of easily realizable but unnecessary features such as countless NPC’s. Sad to say the track followed by the trendsetting staff even turns away from the only unique feature in Illarion more.
But I must blame myself for not recognizing this in time too.

2. Team work on like
In fact there are only 2 persons able to accept a SW change (Nitram & Estralis). All others have limited capabilities.
This is used to block any developer not liked.
You may be curious why the glyph forging is not in game? It was almost finished 12 month ago in October 2017, is available in test since November 2017 and finally done in February 2018. It was even used multiple times to ease players (e.g. https://illarion.org/general/de_news.php?page=2). But it was not the idea of the trendsetting staff.
Let’s show how I feel Illarion development is working it with an example I invested about 2-3 days, the priest NPC’s.
Not that I like more NPC’s in game. Here’s my PM I sent to the responsible person in that case:
2018-02-03
https://imgur.com/o0GqgAL

I did all (or in other words the only) NPC's you sent me. But I'm heavily confused, since there was Cato Lupis only. in the link.

Shall I commit the npc to the dev server?
If so please take into consideration that Estalis will not allow to merge it as long as it comes from me. If you commit they will be merged within hours.

Basically I'll do the other NPC as well. It will take me about 45 min per NPC, most of the time for testing and gathering the missing information.

BUT
I totally disagree with these NPC since according to my opinion we have already much too many NPC and the new priests will rather hinder RP at the altars by cycletexts. Nevertheless I'll do them. It's just another brick on the tombstone of Illarion.

Banduk
Nevertheless I helped to make the German texts and converted 8 out of 11 to the final code.
That doesn’t mean my changes were acceptable. To get the changes in game I choose another way. I sent the finished code to another developer who published it. I sent the finished files at the 2018-03-03 and magically the changes were accepted into the game at 2018-03-11.
Please compare it with the onionball adaptations due to Mantis #11643 https://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=11643#c16767 prepared for upload at the 2018-02-28. These are still not accepted.

3. Why should I believe in a game, the predominant developers don’t want to be promoted and predominant player don’t believe in?
One of my tasks was to force public relations. For details see here: viewforum.php?f=77
Since PR is a never-ending process and if no money is available requires support I was lost all the years. It doesn't mean I could have done it better. For example I never found a hook to start Twitter.

I don’t blame newspapers or web pages for not answering to one of my over 100 mails or letters. Illarion simply is too small to be of interest to them.
But I blame the predominant developers for doing nothing!
  • For years we know we lose the most new player in the registration and character creation.
    Neither the developer with sufficient knowledge did any (except claiming it to be bad) nor didn’t they even want to provide necessary information to adapt the process and teach people willing to do the work. It took me more than a year before I gave up asking for help to set up a development environment for that issue. For details see the blocked developer forum.
  • In spring 2016 Drakon was able on my request to create a new larger logo, applicable for T-shirts and other devotalia.
    Since that day I tried multiple times to get a permission and an Illarion promotion mail. I even talked two times in person to the responsible developer and all I got were nice words. The only thing remains is a single shirt I own (viewtopic.php?f=77&t=41965).
    A conclusive explanation would be the lead staff doesn’t want Illarion to be promoted.
And I blame remaining players for doing nothing too!
  • Even if creating Illarion YouTube movies almost ended at court for me, more I blame the missing reaction of almost any player of Illarion to YouTube or Facebook activities of others.
    YouTube, Facebook and Twitter are the remaining fee PR platforms we have, but any activity becomes useful only, if they are shared. 3-4 players were willing to share only. Everybody else was much too ashamed to show he like Illarion.
    Or more likely everybody else doesn’t like Illarion.
  • A question how to promote Illarion (see viewtopic.php?f=77&t=42070) ended with the fully agreed by almost everybody conclusion: “Illarion is too shitty to be worth to be promoted”.
Any more questions?

4. – … Fox Dungeon, Blocking History Publication, Dagbladden, Order to Stop Work by Lead Developer, Fear of Changes and many more
There are far more points and examples I could use but let’s take time to mourn our once thrilling, addictive and very good role play MMO.

I'd really like to work for Illarion, but feeling all you do is for the basket is really too much.

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Post by Jupiter » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:22 am

Re: Sorry

Banduk wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:26 am
You may be curious why the glyph forging is not in game? It was almost finished 12 month ago in October 2017, is available in test since November 2017 and finally done in February 2018. It was even used multiple times to ease players (e.g. https://illarion.org/general/de_news.php?page=2). But it was not the idea of the trendsetting staff.
Wrong.
It's not in the game because I haven't finished reviewing it, because I am a lazy person. I removed e.g. killer playing from your code ( https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion ... dfc0aa093b ). Furthermore, I want to remove creation of ritual places and instead just have static ones to create hotspots (I think you suggested that in one post somewhere as well). So if you want to blame someone, blame me.

I will not comment on the other stuff you said, and I will not reply in this thread again, since I find that to be a rather unfair treatment from your side. If you want to discuss something, I would prefer to discuss it directly. You have my moblie phone number, feel free to call me (I am busy until 7pm, though).

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:40 am

Re: Sorry

Banduk is right. Many of us have been saying these things for literal years.

I think the decision to create ritual spots is a great one. One of the MAJOR deterrents for me in the development of illarion is that the design is forcing people to work together when the player base is so small and people are forced to play with groups they may or may not want to even play with. Why fear a player that is self sufficient in a world full of 20 people? It's simply counter-productive. Forcing a player to do anything is bad design, if someone wants to become self sufficient because their character doesn't fit the current structure then whats the issue? The sandbox Illarion used to be is dead, from the proposals and active work I've seen Banduk post he is actively trying to bring that element back.

@Banduk, I think you've done alot of good work and I hope you don't feel underappreciated. If things continue south for Illarion there is another project under works called Eiradur that maybe you could get into in the future.





Trolling and flaming removed, appreciate other comments.
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Post by Drathe » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:01 pm

Re: Sorry

Hmm, well, that's a shame your leaving the team. I've heard about some of the good work you've done, that everyone has done.

Does anyone still actually work on this game any more? Still have the motivation, drive or time?

Bit of a cringe moment really when I read stuff like this, when I log in randomly and see the same few die hard players on the online list and maybe catch one in passing in game. I still love Illarion.

But as has been said many, many a time over the past years and counter argued against into taking the game into this stagnant, generic place, this schizophrenic identity, just take a moment, brief and fleeting and imagine what the game could have been if instead of the VBU (which wasn't an update but a reworking - arguing semantics there possibly,) it stayed the sandbox island it was. All the time and energy that's gone into this playerless bipolar game could have been put into making that island the best of what it was and was known for. The features players wanted and the graphical quality of what we have now. It could have been excellent and far more manageable! There were more features, more players, more diversity, more story, more player freedoms and roles years go compared to now! All this time and energy could have been used to sharpen that into something with a polished shine. Instead of reworking the same crafting, fighting magic, etc system over and over again and making something so un-unique, so generic. Urgh, so many NPCs now for what? To fill the empty text box for lack of player interaction.

Anyway, the game had to change to attract more players to help fund the server and keep the game alive. More players for funding, more players, players. Will the game server shut down soon?

Shall we just do it!? Just stop wasting all this time and energy, stop pretending this direction was a good plan and go back to where it all began? Be strong, come on, take us by the hand and lead us back to an Island full of what once was? Dreams, story, individuality and players. :) "If you build it, they will come."

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:45 pm

Re: Sorry

Dear Banduk,

as I wrote in my PM, thank you again for your contributions to Illarion. That you leave the team with bad feelings and that you feel like your efforts are not appreciated enough is sad, but sometimes that's the way it is.

There is just one thing I'd like to correct:
In fact there are only 2 persons able to accept a SW change (Nitram & Estralis). All others have limited capabilities.
This is used to block any developer not liked.
Actually, around a dozen persons have the rights to merge pull requests into the development branch of the script repository. Everyone who can push to the development branch can also merge. For the client and server, even I have to issue pull requests that get then reviewed. That is just the standard process for a project hosted on Github and has nothing to do with personal preferences.

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Post by Lia » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Sorry

@Banduk I think you are exaggerating and you speak only the bare frustration.
Yes, there is some truth in it, but the way you approach people here is unacceptable.

And how do you know if the players really did not do anything to promote Illarion? You can not do it right.

@ Topic?

The fact is that the Illarion is vegetating and it does not deserve it. But when hardly new ones come, and from those who come half go again. And even old players become inactive because they no longer have fun on Illarion, who exactly should then advertise for Illarion?

Since I have no idea what the devs are doing or not doing, So I can not judge.

But while we're at the community, I'm criticizing all the players who moan at Slightly when he does not jump right when and how Player want.

He's the ONLY GM and he's always trying to support the players if they have a request for him. And all can really bring some respect for that.


So yeah sorry for some Spelling mistake

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:47 pm

Re: Sorry

For someone always claiming that everyone else is acting unacceptably, you sure have a way of making cutting remarks with no purpose and seem to get away with it.

What does players and Slightly have to do with this post? Why is it whenever someone is frustrated here it ends the same way.. are there any patterns perhaps?

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Post by Karrock » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Sorry

Statistics say we have 52 active players. I would say this number is lower. Perhaps if the game would be REALLY directed to those who play it situation can be changed for the better. Actually I think the many ideas are directed to the one (or ones) who code them or to the not existed people. Here even exist people who make strong impressive impact and don't play through ages and even don't create anymore anything here except their hypothesis what will happen (I speak the most of people who discuss about the Lore, but mechanics too).
Maybe if ONLY the proposals and ideas of active players would have real impact this game can survive and expand number of the players.

Thanks for reading

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Post by Karl » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:24 am

Re: Sorry

One main town to resolve your playercount issues

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