Ghosting and for what Reasons?

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Post by Caine Trevall » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:51 pm

Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Cheers together,

i have a few thoughts lingering in my mind for a few days now and wanted to share them with the other players, and hear their opinions on the topic since somehow it wont let me go ;)

The Topic i want to talk about is "ghosting for Minor Reasons". As a little example:

Character A offends Character B by slandering him, mocking him, making fun of him, etc. Character B is MUCH stronger than Character A and knows it, so he draws his Weapon and starts fighting. What happens next? Character A falls back, and gets immediately ghosted by Character B.

What im asking myself is just, is this really the right approach for Roleplay itself? Is it legit to act that way just because you feel that you BELIEVE that you are in the right and the Game engine permits it? Is it the meta-knowledge that the other Character will revive at the cross why Players decide to let their Characters act that way or are they usually that "barbaric" that they dont care for other peoples lives?

Don't get me wrong, i don't want to offend anyone, but i dont get such an behavoiur. is it just to show others that your Character the "Uber-fighter" or what is the Reason to do so? Why not instead fight, let the Character fall back and rub his loss into him? That way Roleplay is made AND the other Player doesn't get salty because he has now repairs to do, Maybe lost some precious item and has to play in a way he maybe even doesn't WANT to? If the Character still has a big mouth after he fell back he can be still ghosted anyway as a last resort.

Usually i take RL as a reference when my Character acts. Meaning i DONT go around and start stabbing someone in the back just because he gets on my nerves or pisses me off, with the knowledge "Hey, he might die but he will be in a better place now like Nirvana, Paradise, Valhalla, etc" (at least if i were religious in any way) and ignore any other possible consequences to him or myself. Besides in my opinion it's not a matter of Real Life or Roleplay/Game but just a matter of common sense at all.

So let me know your opinions, expiriences, or just thoughts about it.

cheers,
Caine

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Post by Djironnyma » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

I totally understand your points and agree with many of them. Anyway as mostly this coin have two sides. In my personal experience there are also often new / weak chars which are played very disrespectful, risky and cheeky even if they know they are much weaker. There is often the feeling they just play this way, because they have nothing real to lost. Someone who don't know how to hold a sword should not insult a guy in a full plate armor if he is played with some respect for his own life (or at least with the fear of being beaten to the cross).

But furthermore, please dont make any strange comparisons to RL, that lacks on to many points. We dont live in a dark medieval world with a magic cross which make it almost impossible to kill anyone, with knowledge about the afterlife and with unequal laws.

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Post by Caine Trevall » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:04 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

A nice point of view. True, there are sometimes Characters like the "oh so famous" Mary sues. Of course it must be cosidered if it's just a new player with near to 0 Roleplay expierience or just a Troll character On a personal Note: I already had one or two encounters with these Trollchars. But i never ghosted one of them. I just took them into my personal Roleplay, decided that Caine would see them as Insane and even had a few good talks with other Roleplayers about these events. And in the case of New Characters, well. If these players want to learn, then why not teach them the basics instead of letting them learn the probably harshest way, by ghosting? In the worst case these New players would just stop playing after their first encounter with another player, and if im not mistaking, the community reguarly "cries" for more players, so doing such things would be counter-productive as well.

And sorry if my little example was misleading. I wasn't trying to compare the world of Illarion to real Life. Im fully aware that in OUR world no such things like Undead, Dragons or Magic (maybe unless the kind that "Magicians" do, like sawing women in half) exist. I just wanted to write of an understandable example on how common sense should probably dictate a bit more how some characters act. If i actually wanted to COMPARE something, then i would have compared Illarion to the world of Conana the Barbarian/Cymerian/King/Halfnaked swordswinging Bodybuilder, as in THAT setting, a completely different mindset exists like (personal) "Might makes right".

cheers,
Caine

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Post by Dantagon Marescot » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Honestly I think that is the most valid RL example that could be applied to Illa. You shouldn't just go around stabbing people and expecting them to reappear at a cross, just like I wouldn't go around stabbing people in RL and expecting a defib unit to bring them back. How do I know that Cherga will send them back like she has the last 100 times. Maybe she is sick of your BS and throwing yourself into danger and decides you are done.

Depending on the nature of the conflict, ghosting should be a last resort. Obviously if I am a fully armored fighter and a newbie attacks me out of no where, I am more likely to rp fending them off before causing stumble back. There is no reason to result to ghosting unless the person is really dumb enough to strike back without any rp after the fact. At least in a minor conflict, in a major conflict where you know the person will get back up, swallow a potion, and continue after you, it is a different story. Heck, some one is insulting your character and you decide to attack them for their petulance, if they can actually rp, why not rp the fight? Novel concept, I know.

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Post by Caswir » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Why aren't we allowed to stay as a ghost now?Whisper creepy things to people. I did notice you actually can drop items when you fall. Some of the new programming makes the game less predictable. Chaos! It is lame when you get reskilled. Why I thought playing as a ghost was fun.

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Post by Vern Kron » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:44 am

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Caswir wrote:Why aren't we allowed to stay as a ghost now?Whisper creepy things to people. I did notice you actually can drop items when you fall. Some of the new programming makes the game less predictable. Chaos! It is lame when you get reskilled. Why I thought playing as a ghost was fun.
There were a number of cases where ghosted characters would oocly harass people, and players could do 0 about it.

That's also my thresh-hold on ghosting a character. Rarely do I feel a desire to actually ghost a player, BUT there is a couple individuals who troll the game, and intentionally target me. When they come around, I just wait for the opportunity. I don't have patience for that.

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Post by Karrock » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:39 am

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

I see in this just as lack of RP. In the most situations like these, fights should be done without weapons, just fists. The draw a weapon and attack someone should be evaluated as attempt to murder someone and judged so on.

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

First off if someone attacks me from the shadows or without emotes, then they don't get a gram of rp respect period, don't expect otherwise.

On another note if someone doesn't respond or accept your emotes or rp then they likewise do not deserve your sympathy.

Respond appropriately... those who respect your rp are truly few unfortunately however don't let the negativity of others deter your creativity

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Post by Achae Eanstray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Just throwing this here as a reminder: http://illarion.org/illarion/us_rules.php#behavior:
It is not allowed to react to a rule violation of another player with another rule violation (e.g. OOC-messages). These breaches will be dealt with, regardless of the situation. It is unwanted for players to rebuke each other for rule violations. If a rule violation occurs, the Illarion staff should be informed to process the case.

The purposeful attacking of a character without clearly traceable and reasonable roleplaying reason is forbidden. Immediate killing of a character right after resurrection ("res-killing") is not allowed.
My personal idea is when
Character A falls back, and gets immediately ghosted by Character B
why fall back if it doesn't get Character A down on the ground and vulnerable? Why should Character B continue to attack a vulnerable person.. isn't that time to reflect and allow Character A to heal.. doesn't that mean Character B has won the fight then? Why ghost?

Of course that is just my personal opinion and how I would see the RP. As Artimer stated it seems every once in awhile we have trolls join the game that don't seem to follow any rules hence letting the GM know and handle that person.

I have a question to consider also.. How many RP the hurt past the engine heal time? I'm talking of even a day later? I have seen a couple of really good RPers that do that and thumbs up to them! :D

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Post by Caine Trevall » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

First of all thanks to everyone who shared his Opinion here yet, and im glad to see that there is a number of players who see the topic the way i do.

Now to Achaes Question:

I guess someone has to difference between the level of the Wound and also the pain torerance of each character.

Example:

For Caine fighting and also getting wounded is a normal part of his Life, so he is "used" to it to a certain degree. And with the time he developed a huge pain tolerance to certain kinds of wounds, what does NOT mean that he always miracously recovers from them after a day. He just knows how to suppress the feeling of pain so that he is not "that much" in Pain, even when getting hurt.

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Post by Lia » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:18 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Sorry for the English speakers, but before I get into bad English and make it hard to unterstandable, I prefer to write in German.


Solange es Charaktere gibt die jemand vollgerüstet , bewaffnet und wissentlich stärker, beleidigen und provozieren, solange wird es auch Charaktere geben die halt die engine nutzen und die Person zum Kreuz schicken.

Es gibt einfach nichts nervigeres als Charaktere die das ständig tun. Oder sogar es selbst dann noch tun wenn sie bereits Schläge kassiert haben.

Und das tun selbst welche die weder Neu noch Trollcharakter sind.

Ich habe sogar schon Charaktere erlebt die einem weiter ins Gesicht lachen und weiter provozieren während sie Schläge kassieren.Und wenn sie frisch vom Kreuz kommen wenn die Schläge engine waren

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Post by Q-wert » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:32 am

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

I ghost when my characters have the intention to (permanently, truly, gone forever) kill.
My characters react to ghosting as if it was an attempted kill/murder.
To me it is as simple as that.

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Post by Caswir » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

I was thinking, ghosting in this game reminds me of the reaper. Or ghost irl or the angel of death. Like the ghost of your character sees you through death (to meet the goddess cherga) and back to the cross, but eventually every character dies. The reaper works the same way in life, or so according to folk lore, I mean if you believe in such things. So in this way the game is realistic.

Ghosting in the game happens, all the time. The magic wands had an interesting effect to the gameplay I thought. Ghosting is like love, and what is it good for? ...Nothin. Well except now degrades, destroys, and drops* the items I am carrying.

*not sure about this last one as I do not ghost much.

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Post by Brightrim » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:20 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Q-wert wrote:I ghost when my characters have the intention to (permanently, truly, gone forever) kill.
My characters react to ghosting as if it was an attempted kill/murder.
To me it is as simple as that.
I second this.
Too many characters put themselves in danger as if they know they will be sent back, having no respect for the idea of death (or even pain).
You should treat ghosting and being ghosted, or the potential of being ghosted, as if it would mean permadeath, and not as a" 99% sure I will make it back alive" scenario.

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:43 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

^third, I assumed this was everyone's way of seeing it, a wrong assumption. :?

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:49 pm

Re: Ghosting and for what Reasons?

Achae Eanstray wrote:Just throwing this here as a reminder: http://illarion.org/illarion/us_rules.php#behavior:
It is not allowed to react to a rule violation of another player with another rule violation (e.g. OOC-messages). These breaches will be dealt with, regardless of the situation. It is unwanted for players to rebuke each other for rule violations. If a rule violation occurs, the Illarion staff should be informed to process the case.

The purposeful attacking of a character without clearly traceable and reasonable roleplaying reason is forbidden. Immediate killing of a character right after resurrection ("res-killing") is not allowed.
My personal idea is when
Character A falls back, and gets immediately ghosted by Character B
why fall back if it doesn't get Character A down on the ground and vulnerable? Why should Character B continue to attack a vulnerable person.. isn't that time to reflect and allow Character A to heal.. doesn't that mean Character B has won the fight then? Why ghost?

Of course that is just my personal opinion and how I would see the RP. As Artimer stated it seems every once in awhile we have trolls join the game that don't seem to follow any rules hence letting the GM know and handle that person.

I have a question to consider also.. How many RP the hurt past the engine heal time? I'm talking of even a day later? I have seen a couple of really good RPers that do that and thumbs up to them! :D
Sorry I did have to respond, I'm not saying I'd break the rules in any way if my char defended themself with an emote, however, don't expect me to be happy (or anyone) that they just kinda ultimately disrespected by another member of the community. The game is about rp, so when it's not it may (or may not) irk the 'victim'. Logically a character who was just shot at from the shadows or ambushed by surprise (no emotes) would react in a snap fashion. The issue here is obviously that both the player and character are obviously caught off guard and both have a right to be irked.

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