Illarion.org

Dyluck wrote:Impose law? Who said anything about imposing law? I would like to see where you read that the rules and regulations that we write must be obeyed by anyone other than the guilds of the Lyrenzia Foundation.

Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy

Here is where Lyrenzia said it would have laws only within the guilds of the Lyrenzia Foundation. We all now how the laws work now

Lyrenzia Foundation wrote:The Lyrenzia Foundation has added the following existing contracts of ownership to their agreements:

The Ceremonial Cave was founded by the first settlers and is now owned by the public and maintained by its occupants during the time of its occupancy.

And now it belongs to the Grey Rose, they claimed it without money and without asking the first settlers.

---------------------------------

And as for the Town Guard, is it not hypocritical if they start fights in town to get fights out of town? Does that make sense to any logical thinking men or women?
Hagen von Rabenfeld pummeled Johnathan Hamlet because he felt that Johnathan might attempt something. He abused his power and kicked Hamlet out of town for doing nothing but notching an arrow into his bow. Did he break a new law? Who said it was illegal to notch an arrow into a bow?
Who gave Hagen this much power?
-----------------------------------
Open your eyes. Do not be afraid of Lyrenzia. It is weak if you who are against it just stand together and become united. I will stand beside you if you are brave enough to go public.

Grant Herion
Leader of the Movement

Grant, people elected the members of Lyrenzia representatives themselves. Why should they suddenly be against them? Why do you plan to destroy a well-running political system?

Well, as an elf I never was truly interested in politics but I can say one thing for I live in Trolls Bane since a certain amount of time: Lyrenzia runs well aslong there is noone disturbing the town from outside.

Since in Lyrenzia more than just one race meets each other there need to be rules that are respected by most of the inhabitants. Where I come from, we just live as elves and we needed almost no rules for we respected each other. We lived as a well running elven comunity and still do so with great success.

If Hamlet would have respected the postition of Hagen wich is a position of an elected townguard with a high reputation nothing would have happened. It's more than offensive to raise your weapon against a townguard, especially as a non-citizen.

With regards,

Lyrenzia LIED to you, you fools.

Your so blind, its amazing how many people do not understand! They LIED, Cheated, Stole, and Oppressed. Then they banned, Jailed, or possibly even killed those who opposed them!

And you sit there, while the trade economy crumbles, and the Grey Rose run amok tossing people out saying "Oh well, thats what we voted, it must be right for us."

Nonsense.

But then what do you expect of a citizen opressed by liars?

~Unsigned~

Who elected Hagen as a town guard?
So becuase he offended Hagen, Hagen had the right tp pummel him? WHat kind of elven society did you live in dear?

Grant Herion

Grant Herion wrote:

Lyrenzia Foundation wrote:The Lyrenzia Foundation has added the following existing contracts of ownership to their agreements:

The Ceremonial Cave was founded by the first settlers and is now owned by the public and maintained by its occupants during the time of its occupancy.

The Grey Rose never defines the Ceremonial Cave than their property. The cave is owned by the public. The Grey Rose is only an user, who maintains the cave.


The Town Guard is set by Lyrenzia, the Circle of the Grey Rose and some inhabitans of Trolls Bane.

--------------
Lennier
Noble Knight of the Grey Rose
Councilor of Lyrenzia
Councilor of SMACC

Grant does has point...Me remember Grey Rose once kicking out peoples 'cause they say it their cave... But that was while back. Me not care to go back.
And still something me sees every day, races hate other races. Tell others to leave when have no power to. What lyrenzia do? Nothing me knows of. Me thinks theys citizens under Lyrenzia. Hypocrits. What town guards say goes. No matter what other person does. It wrong...

-unsigned-

Maybe Grant has point, but he shud no be allowed in town. Not evryone Town Guard throw out shud be banned, jus Grant. Why? He hypocrite too. He say he no fight war in town, but today he attack Cheif Veralion of Bloodskulls with magic in town! What he try start war with Skulls for? No matter, he died when he was betrayed by trusted member of his own side.

GRISHNAK BLOODLUST

Hagen has the duty to protect other citizens from harm and to prevent any battles inside the town borders. With his experience of former battles with you he exactly knows your behaviour and did the absolutely right thing in my eyes.

I fully stand behind him and I am sure there are many others who do so too. There is no need to rake up the citizens to battle against their own government. That's a destructive behaviour and leads nowwhere.

with regards,

Do no even begin to speak of 'my' behaviour or 'our' behaviour. You do no know who yous talking to lady.
For all you knows, me could be friends of Hagen. Me never attacked him anyway. Me saying some peoples are corrupted and yous fails to notice it.
-unsigned-

The other Unsigned poster is right.

And battle experience? Who cares!

Its not how many you've slain, or captured, or even saved that makes a man any better then anyone else.

fools.

~unsigned~

Only the one who has nothing to hide will sign his messages,
so why do you hide your signature? You will not be harmed by anyone for your opinion about Lyrenzia, it's no lawbreak to discuss about organisations. Sign your posts with your name and i will start to give you good arguements, but saying "Lyrenzia LIED to you, you fools." is not the way to speak with townsfolk if you want them to understand your opinion and why you think that way.

Randelon Morgental

People of Trolls Bane!

I just suggest not even to answer to a group of thugs and cutthoroats who have no other goal than establishing a criminal anarchy on this beautiful island.
Everyone knows what kind of persons they are.
Its just a waste of ink.

Regards
Guillermo Ballesta

Ballesta, if the best you can argue is to not read or respond to this proof of Lyrenzia's lies and corruption, then Lyrenzia is indeed doomed.

Grant Herion

Dear Grant Herion,

did you respond to the proofs of criminal activity of you and your guild? No you didnt, there is no argument to deny this. But I´ll let you continue with this topic so that the few people who still dont know you and your greed of power learn a little bit more.

Regards
Guillermo Ballesta

I am not asking for power here Guillermo. I am asking for someone to lead the people who hate Lyrenzia in a guild. But it seems like there aren't any brave enough men or women to do this task.
And what proof do you have that I or the Movement have done illegal activies? Do you think that the Reborn Movement gives a shit about Lyrenzia? We didn't even care until you kicked us out of town. We never worried about you. You brought this on yourself. Now taste the fruits of your decision.

Grant Herion

You ask for proofs?

here you have them again...Guillermo pins up some parchments
((http://forum.illarion.org/viewtopic.php?t=9395&start=30))

I just read through your post Ballesta. And it seems that you cannot read. There is a difference from the Original Movement and the Reborn Movement. Perhaps you should read on it? Rustus Ocklam was also kicked out later on, if you spent the time to show the whole story and not just your wishful thinking side.

And as for Ferrari, perhaps you should look who was accusing him: Nerevar? The Hoard ring a bell silly boy?

And as for Fooser, I believe in second chances. I would hope you wouldn't kill someone because of past mistakes. And also, Fooser attempted to pay the Silverstar Merchants. But he never found them. Perhaps you should try reading what you copy instead of blindly copying them, it makes for a better arguement.

Grant Herion

Grant Herion wrote: Nerevar? The Hoard ring a bell silly boy?

and a former member of your guild...silly princess?

And yes..there is a big difference between the old movement and the reborne one...the difference is that you changed your plans, goals and ideals again...as you did a houndred times...who do you think will trust someone like you? besides your thugs?

Regards
Guillermo Ballesta

And as for your second anti-grant reputation post because I have no real arguement: Perhaps you should read when it happened and how i have changed. Perhaps you should learn that when you are among cut throats it is better to appear crueler then them rather then soft or else you are indeed dead.
And as for Darlok appealing to my guild, can I tell him not to do this? Is it my fault he did it? I wouldn't think so.
And Zerbus is an honorable elf. He is just on the wrong side. I have tried to convince him to change sides, but he does not. So again, your arguement or rather anti-Grant post is shown in the light rather then the shadow.

Grant Herion

Please, just go on writing...every time you do it you show a little bit more of your real face.
Now we know that in fact you like Zerbus, he is just on the wrong side.
Hmm...and Fooser needs a second chance...or should I say a third chance? That whould match better. Swifteye is a nice guy just because he was accused by nerevar, a former member of your guild. You forgot to mention Ashburg? Does he also need a second chance? And do we need the "army of the cutthroats with a second chance"?
What else do you want to tell us? continue please...

Regards
Guillermo

Guillermo, you still don't seem to be able to comprehend the words i write. The Original Movement and the Reborn Movement are two different guilds with different goals.
Ashburg is dead. I have attempted to resurrect him, but he has not come, it is bad karma to speak ill of a dead thing.
Again Guillermo, your whole arguement is based on believe the Reborn Movement is the same as the original Movement. Silly iggnorant child. Try reading up on things you critize, and then maybe you will actually have a fool proof arguement.
And alas, I will no longer argue with you on the subject the Movement being evil. Most people know it isn't. And that is why people in town who are not town guards do not care if I am there or not. The people you try to protect do not agree with you.

And now, back to the real topic. Try explaining or justifying why Lyrenzia lied to the people it rules.

Grant Herion

Its obvious that we know different people, because the people I know agree with me.
But as you see noone cares about your problems...beside me.
In fact Im the only one wasting my ink on this topc.

Regards
Guillermo

Nice way of admiting you cannot form an arguement.

Grant Herion

did you form an argument? or is your only argument that you changed your mind, which happens quite often? I guess this is the only argument you have to offer us, and thats the reason noone cares about your points.

Guillermo

I am not saying anyone is wrong and I do belive almost everyone or group has it's flaws

and now for what I am going to say here .

yes it may be a inconvinyance for so many to be band from Lyrenza land , and it herts trade .
but think for the long-term a moment if this keeps going as a dispute then the Reborn Movement will end up suffering after they defete Darlok . because of the bad feelings bettween them and Lyrenza .
so best thing for movement members at this time to do is to avoid coflicts with town guard , so that when the war with Darlok is over the ones not band befor the battle may be able to enter the city without the guard tossing them .
as far as I know of movement is not trying to take over Lyrenza therefor they should focuse on the real goals and not wast time trying to fix someone elses government when there oun could use a little help as is .
when Movement wins aginst Darlok the government set up would be seperat from Lyrenza would it not ? hypathetical question dosen't need a anser

note by Darkform

Guillermo, I think his arguement was why Lyrenzia said all it said and did all it did. The questions he wrote on the first scroll...

Bumably yours,
B.J.Woodstock

The ceremonial cave is still public property...so this is just wrong.

And the only thing the townguard does is to keep banned persons out of the city.
If someone is silly enough to face or even attack the townguard its his problem.
The Guard only attacks if someone doesnt obey the rules of our city, even then we dont attack without a warning, if you think that we have fun fighting you are just wrong. But sadly there are people who definetly love to fight.

Regards
Guillermo

That is a good point Guillermo, I think you got him cornered. Better go for the kill! Trust me, I used to be a patrol officer!

Bummy

To Grant,

you just wrote this:

Do you think that the Reborn Movement gives a shit about Lyrenzia?

Indeed, you didnt care about the laws in town and thats exactly the reason you are banned. The same applys for Northerot.



Perhaps you should also read your own announcements again. This is from the reborn movement topic:

1)The Direction: The plan is to dethrone Darlok the Deceiver and his ally Zerbus and all who ally themselves with Darlok.

2)Well, I will be either King unless there is another who believes they have more invested in the land then me.

3)Why: The reason for dethroning Darlok is because he has commited crimes against humanity.

1. Do that. But Northerot is up there north, not in Trollsbane. We do not like our town as a battlefield.
2. Trollsbane will not help a criminal to replace another criminal. In fact the blackmailed citizens who built the castle, or would have to starve, invested much more than you, not only their safety but also their good name, while you were laughing at them.
3. Crimes you helped him to commit. And with great joy, as everyone, who knows you from these times still knows.



For what you just wrote:
That is your basic problem, dear Grant. If you learned one thing from your master, then how to bear such great ambitions, to change sides as it suits you. Examples(and dont make me to quote your own writings again, you should at least know what you have written yourself):

1. You thought you would get an office in Northerot, because you fullfilled your master´s bidding. You did NOT oppose him, when he caused the drought, but almost two months after this, when it became clear you and your old (which still had a somewhat similiar personell as your current one) movement wouldnt get glory and offices.
2. You fought against the temple guard of Zelphia, who never came into trouble before, claimed not to be aggressive, then tell your men they should attack on sight, turn the direction again and this continues to this day.
3. You just came into trouble with the Bloodskulls and your comments on this are also contradictionary.
4. One day you come and tell the town guard, that it is allright for you to harbour sentenced murderers and that you give a "shit" about the laws, the next day you come to us and grovel because you say a comon enemy makes allies of us and wonder why we do not help you to get the crown of your former master. You fight in town and come back even after you had to crawl to the cross and say you do not want to battle with trollsbane, but with Darlok?
6. You grovel to the countess of the grey rose and the same day your men attack the guard because they do not accept, that we do not let the criminals, that you harbour in your ranks, walk on our streets.
5. Even now you grovel before Zerbus, a servant who also sided with Darlok, when he blackmailed the town with starvation. This is because you fear his fighting prowess, not because you are fighting against people that

...commited crimes against humanity.

To summarize: Yes you changed your ways and will do so again, if it suits your ambitions. You really remind people of a disapointed boy, that doesnt know how to explain the trouble he got into, without loosing face and your men (those who werent criminals before) and those, who obey the law in this town, bleed for this, instead of those who commited those crimes against humanity, you say you want to fight. The only idea that comes to your mind as a suitable explanation is, that everyone is plotting against you, Lyrenzia with the man, who let this town starve, the temple guard with the sinner Darlok, or wasnt that with Lyrenzia and the guilds of this town with each other and those who left your guild, because they saw for whom they should die. All against the only just person who wants nothing but dethrone an tyrant. And what i list here is written by your hand. If you did not write them, then dismiss the person who did this, he is making you look stupid.



~Hagen von Rabenfeld~
~Guardsman~

You tell him Hagen! Don't give him an inch! Your invincible! No one can stop you!

Bumbol
Town Patrol Officer