clan colors

DJ TraK · Post by **DJ TraK** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 4:13 am

i think the calns should be able to give a clan member a distinguishing mark or a color for a cloak so they can be see as a member. this can also help distinguish a person among large number of the same race. i was surruonded by 8 other elfs and was trying to find a friend and needless to say it got a little confusing. just an idea

Master Gohan · Post by **Master Gohan** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 4:40 am

Er yes i think that would make it much easier.

Marlon · Post by **Marlon** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 7:08 pm

Thats an Very good Idea!!!
I Think its good

DJ TraK · Post by **DJ TraK** » Sat Mar 17, 2001 7:52 am

you think this is posible martin?

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Mar 17, 2001 12:19 pm

not at the moment, since the amount of graphics would increase too much.

we would have to make for each character different cloors/outlooks for each animation phase and each direction, that would mean: for 12 (planned) chars times 4 phases times 4 directions, we have 192 single graphics.
when we want to have e.g. 10 different outlooks for each (which is not very much!), we would need 1920 single graphics *only for characters*.

thats far too much at the moment, sorry.

martin

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sat Mar 17, 2001 11:17 pm

i thought i came up with that idea... oh well.
Yes, you see, look at faldon.
The download takes forever then they
download all the graphics once you try and play it.
Thats bad. And thats a lot of work for martin (poor guy)

Master Gohan · Post by **Master Gohan** » Sun Mar 18, 2001 12:15 am

Er ever thought about using universal 3D modeling.......like hl,ut or faldon,or anyother 3D rpg i could think of?
It is pretty simple.......anyway sprite using hippies suck major ass.....they reallyuse up to much space and take far to long to code.......what 3D modeling tool you using?
Bryce,3D Studio Maxx or something else?
I havent been able to find good plugins for 3D Studio Maxx.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Mar 18, 2001 8:09 am

3d studio max, and there are a lot of freeware-plugins and, well... "other plugins" *g*.

besides, rendering all the stuff in the game (=using meshes) might be good for comercial products, with about 20 programers, 50 graphical artists, 30 game-developer etc.

illarion has nothing of that, and it's not the job of the ones who help, but it's their sparing time they use up to do that, so pls be patient and don't expect too much!

martin

Master Gohan · Post by **Master Gohan** » Sun Mar 18, 2001 9:09 am

Sorry dude just a suggestion.....
I could get you some real GOOD proggies.....
*opens coat*
hehe
Also i meant for your engine.
I WASN'T GOIN TO RIP YA OFF I SWEAR!

devNULL · Post by **devNULL** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:16 am

Matin: was wäre, wenn man statt die kompletten Animationenn neu zu renden nur einen bestimmten teil der Rüstung in '2. Transparentfarbe' macht (also z.b. (0,255,0) und der Client alle Pixel dieser Farbe durch einen eigenen Farbwert ersetzt. So ist es bei uns geplant und sollte ohne viel Aufwand realisierbar sein. Man müßte nichts neu rendern, nur einmal die 2 Transparentfarbe draufmalen..

my 0.02$
Jan

Master Gohan · Post by **Master Gohan** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 2:35 am

English string......english please.....im sorry for the inconvence.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 7:41 am

As far as I know, there is nothing like a second transparent color and a pixel exchange funktion in DirectX - Have you already worked with it?
To exchange a single color in a rendered figure (i.e. multiple very similar colors) would result in a place in the graphics, where only some pixels are changed.
Can you define the render program to create this transparent color, or must you place it via hand later?

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 8:02 am

hi dev

we have a transparent color, and i even cosidered you method (since it is obvious).
but some problems arise of course. first, there are at least 11 different chars in 4 directions with each 4 animation phases. that are 176 different single pictures for each item (weapon, shield, t-shirt, boxershorts, ...) to render.
imagine we would like to have just 10 different colors or something (just 10! thats not much!): we would have to create 1760 different single pictures, just to achieve that.
i suggested this solution last week, but bror convinced me that it is - at least at the moment - far from being realizable. further you have to take into account, that all this items wouldn't need the full size a character needs; but that would mean, that each item would need an index where to place it; figuring out 1760 x-y-koordinates isn't great fun.

i know, in ultima online everything was done like this, but they had some more workers around and it was their job...
we COULD do it as well, but there are far too few ppl who are able to produce the gfx etc.

martin

devNULL · Post by **devNULL** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:20 am

Ok.. maybe you have mis understand me..
I'll try to reproduce the discussions of our graphicteam with my limeted knowledge:
in DirectX you can do a BitBlit with a choosen Transparentcolor (you have (255,0,255)), right?
The things that are to be done: render/change all existing models, so that they have a specific color, where the clan color should be. Weapons don't need that i think.. mostly the Armor/playermodels.. ( i don'*t like my underwear in clancolors..)
(but only one change,not one for every color or maybe only for the forthcoming charakters..)

So you have a char that looks like the one you have now, but with maybe light green place, where the clancolors should appear.

So bevor Blitting the char to the Screen, you perform a BitBlit with the light green as transparent and an 'clancolor'-BMP after that, you have a char with your default transparent color (255,0,255) and the clancolors where they should be (instead of the green). after that you can blitt the char as normal..

For performacne, the first BitBlit could be done at the client and cached for further use.

Hope you can understand now, what i mean.. I think its not to complicated to realize and not so much work to change the old chars/create newones with a specific color.

Jan
p.s.: feel free to flame me for impossible proposals

(Edited by devNULL at 9:22 am on Mar. 19, 2001)

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:19 pm

I didn't thought of blitting to a different surface, when I wrote my reply. This sounds like a solution to settle the problem with the transparent color. Anyway, rendered objects consist of many colors. If you change one color in a brown body (consisting of many browns) to green, you will get a brown body with green dots in it. And I don't see an easy way to create this in a graphic program, except reworking every picture in a paint program.

devNULL · Post by **devNULL** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 1:01 pm

Maybe you can give him a green catsuit or Straps??

Don't know .. maybe it justs gets a dot on the chest? I see it's not that easy.. whats with people without an clancolor?? green Body?? uhh..

Ok.. that where just my ideas, maybe you can make something wonderful out of that (let me know)..

(Edited by devNULL at 12:04 pm on Mar. 19, 2001)

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 2:06 pm

hi

yes, i misunderstood you first, seems i was a bit sleepy

after all, the problem is what bror described: a rendered object with a complex texture consists of a huge amount of colors. i don't know the functions of cirectX, however, maybe i'll have a look at them next week.

martin

Galdriel · Post by **Galdriel** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 3:53 pm

frage meinerseits ist??

kann man nicht alle pixel in einem ensprechenden bereich geringfügig ändern??

also:

alle pixel +10/ +10/ +5

aber so wie sich das ganze anhörte ja wohl eher nicht :-/

was man alleerdings bei den schildträgern machen könnte: man macht ein wappen auf die schilder in der beschriebenen weise, wobei das wappen sagen wir einen farbbereich von 5 farbtönen hat, und die ändert man dann ensprechend:
der erfolg wäre dann aber:
das gleiche wappen in verschiedenen farben...

ob sich dafür der aufwand lohnt??

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:39 pm

vor allem bei lizards und so

martin

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 5:03 pm

5 zu ersetzende Farben heißt dann nachdem, was devNULL geschrieben hat die Grafik 6 mal zeichnen (5 mal zum farben ersetzen, 1* zum zeichnen).
Die Farben müßten per Hand in jeder Grafik eingearbeitet werden. Ob das ersetzen so einfach geht, habe ich noch nicht nachgesehen, scheint aber so. Die insgesammt 6 Spezialfarben dürften dann natürlich in keiner Grafik vorkommen.

devNULL · Post by **devNULL** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 7:05 pm

Das 5 mal zeichnen dürfte eigentlich nicht so das Problem sein, Hardware beschleunigtes BitBlt geht ja recht fix.. Allerdings sollte man dann die resultierenden Bilder IMMER auf dem Client cachen, da pro Animationsphase 6 Blits nur für eine Figur schon recht viel ist...

Zu der Vorgehensweise: ich denke es geht so, aber wir sind (noch) nicht so weit, wollen es aber so machen.. mich würde also auch ein praktischer Test von euch interessieren

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 9:49 pm

Mir ist die Version zu aufwendig, da gibts also keinen Test. Cachen kann man auch nicht alles, da gibt es ja diverse Figuren, animationsüphasen und Farb-kombinationen.

Master Gohan · Post by **Master Gohan** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:11 pm

OK exactly who are the graphical artists and coders?
It's getting a bit confusing.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:43 pm

Graphics (almost permanent): Galdriel, Jonathan, Martin
Some other graphic artists from time to time
Server coding: Baldur
Client coding: Bror

devNULL · Post by **devNULL** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:54 pm

Aber einzelene Clanfarben könnte man bei zukünftigen Figuren berücksichtigen/vielleicht mal testweise ein Schild ändern..

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:58 pm

but i'd say: the more useful graphics we get the better it is.
so if you are skilled in 3d-graphics a bit, you see how items look like etc, start rendering

i' open for any questions (e.g. camera settings...)

martin

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:15 am

Twould be quite a feat, martin, if the clan colors idea comes to life.
I think it would be a perfect way of identifying people...
but strangely there are no capes for some colors...
Good for martin, but bad for us who are missing our favorite colors

So, martin, could you do the colors for the capes?
And we need more pants, baby. Walking around with flame sword, plate armor,
Full helm, and a lion shield with trousers... good thing the character pic shows a constant armor,
or else everyone would be laughing at us...
At least get us some chain pants! come on!
Also, maybe "secret items",one of a kind...
placed on the edge of the world where no one really wants to go

DJ TraK · Post by **DJ TraK** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 3:18 am

wow looks like i opened a pandoras box so to speak well i think that the clan colors would be a awsome feat if it were to see light but as for weapons i can under stand as for the vast bitmaps and whatnot but i dont think a loack ith a spific trim around it would be too dificult. like i said before i have photo shop 5.5 and 3d studio max and would be gald to help if i were to recive the particulars.

Master Gohan · Post by **Master Gohan** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 3:30 am

Err........photoshop makes me angry......too many people using stock lensflare effects because they have no skill as an artist.
Anyway i think that clan colors is a good idea but it might just be easier to make clothes appear on the character.....untill(or if) you decide to add clan colors.

martin · Post by **martin** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 8:12 am

@DJ:

what exactly do you need to know?
you can do any graphic you want, it should fit into the current illarion (with some exceptions; some of the graphics are not changed to the ISO-look yet, e.g. the lions shield etc.).
you can see how big items should be (you see it in the game *hint hint*). i can even send you a max-file where the camera &lights are placed correctly, so that you just have to model your item (or whatever), place it in the scene, eventually shrink it and render it.
afterwards you will have to correct some pixels in PS. that's it.

i wasn't told such things too, i found out myself. waiting for someone to take your hand and explain everything to you, otherwise you don't do anything, is nice in the kindergarden, but not here.

i can't explain every single detail several hundred times etc., just do it and you'll see whether it's ok or not, and afterwards you can correct the things which were not so good. maybe you try to create some things that fit into houses (beds, curtains, carpet, paintings, flowers/plants, ... whatever you like to do). the size of one tile was posted several times before (i'd suggest bror puts it somewhere in the graphics-section to be found more easy

).
i'll answer any concrete question (at least i'll try to

), but i can't explain to you all specifications, since most of them are really obvious (size, direction, ...).

martin