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i think there should be a tailored item that makes it so you cant see the theives number and you put it in the armor place but it also takes up the helmet place (more realistic if your head is covered not to see who you are)also this way the theif cant wear armor and is more likely to be killed.

I think that's a very good idea. And i wouldn't think it would be too hard to program.

If that were there, I would wear it CONSTANTLY. A great idea too, considering how it doesn't make sense when somebody locates you despite the fact you're wearing tons of armor, or facing away from them.

Do you know why this ID-number system was implemented?
Back in the days when I started playing, everyone was just 'Someone' not 'Someone (12345)', even thought perhaps slightly more realistic, it had the one propblem that no-one could recognize a playerkiller (A killer who doesn't obey the server-rules). I think that this idea is good, but it would undo quite efficently the original meaning of this system.

@Gro'bul i have to agree it sounds like a really good idea

@Caranthir the great i dont know what the system it is that makes the number or why they are there but i dont think we should have them there at all.....from what i have been told is that it only tells you what number person you are that joind that that time in the game

As Caranthir told you, the reason for making the numbers visible was the abuse of PKs.
In earlier time, everyone was "someone" until he introduced, there was also no account system.
So you saw several someones around you and many PKs used this, to go on a rampage.
How could one tell this rulebreaker to the staff, when you only knew "Hobbit - someone".
It was a hard job for Bror to find the case in the logs.

And so, the numbers were included (I think, it was the client october 2001).
With the numbers, it was much easier to identify a rule breaker and to mail him to the staff.
And also after the accountsystem is implemented, it is in my opinion useful to have the numbers, cause there exist also rule breakers and sometimes PKs, who managed to come through the system.

I also think this is a good idea. Maybe there could be two seperate parts. The cloak slot part makes the last three numbers invisible, and the hat slot makes the first two numbers invisible.
I think diguises would be interestig also. Maybe as a spell, so you could change your apperance for a limited amount of time. Or as an item which could be tailored.

IF there is a cloak and a hat, you must not be able to wear them at the same time too!

I like this idea though there should be a no use time after you kill because everyone is suspicous and careful like 20 minutes then your cloak works, and if you attack someone your number is revealed, instantly./.

I don't quite understand this proposal. If wearing a cloak would make that single character's number invisible and everyone else still had a number, everyone would know exactly who the thief character was because it would be the one who you couldn't see their number. This would be no armor and anyone seen without a number would be shot for being a 'known' thief regardless of whether or not they had actually been known to steal anything.

As Aragon and Caranthir have said, the numbers are there for an ooc reason. They are to help players report pks or other rule breakers who they do not know the names of. It is not an exclusevely rp implementation. Rp is now based around these numbers in the form of description of characters that you do not know the name of (only a few numbers because describing every number would be poor rp as you could not remember every exact detail of a stranger upon first sight). For these reasons I do not like this current proposal. The idea of a cloak to disguise a character's identity is a lovely idea and should be developed further, but should not deal with character numbers in the way described above.

yes good point. i was mainly thinking of the numbers because that is how we seem to currently "identify" people. cloaks would cover them up, there for you couldnt "identify" them. and if the person wasnt a theif and you kill them than well its just plain illegal. also in rl if somebody steals something from you in public its rare you will find them and get your things back.

A cloak that hides a character's number would be similar to a person in real life wearing a stocking cap and all black clothing and walking into a bank. You don't know who they are, yes, but you know they are up to no good and the guard will act (As it is now, everyone in illarion is in a way a 'guard' in this sense.). My suggestion is that the cloak to hide a character's identity would not hide their number but give a generic 'thief' number such as 29848, which all characters wearing this cloak would have. A number that anyone who wore this cloak would have. Of course any player who knew this was the number of the thief cloak would be suspicious but any person who saw you wearing a cloak covering all of your features would also be suspicious so it seems accurate. If this were the case the character would still have a number and would not arise undue suspicion because they could be seen as a player with a general description (Number.) and reported for rule violations if need be (The likelihood of more than 5 characters with this thief cape on at the same time would be very low, so reporting this 'thief' number would still be effective as the logs could be checked if given the day and time.)

I *still* think it's a good idea, because the number thing is quite annoying...people still shout my name and recognize me, whether I have introduced myself or not, despite the fact that I'm wearing tons of clothing and armor they can't see through.

When people shout my name after looking at my number, I get quite annoyed as I don't like being recognized let alone have idiots shout out my name when they know it irritates me.

As for the PK problem...it would be a problem, but to be honest, I've never seen somebody run around and kill countless, random people. It happens very rarely, and the 10x skill thing already prevents people from getting too strong, too quickly. Not to mention, the account system makes sure that quality players enter, not just imported dweebs from Runescape.

I think the number should only show if you're dead, it makes more sense as you can lift the disguise of the corpse to see who it is. You SHOULDN'T be able to recognize a thief or a killer when his or her back is turned around and their wearing so much...

If not my reasons, I agree with Niniane.

Most people can shout out your name because...well...how many lizards in the game that I havn't been introduced to? And yes. I don't think you should be able to regonize people if they are wearing lots of things or even facing a different direction.

Even if everyone was wearing those cloaks no one would know who is who. People would catch on that this number is a theif and this one is too.

Sorry i did not follow your whole discussion here.
This topic has also been discussed in geman (you got no chance to find it if you cant german).
Look in here.

I dont think it is nessecary to give a 'cloaked' Person a Number, just give him no number at all.
That is suspicious enouth, or give him the Lable "Cloaked".

A single Number for all Thiefes is not very good, because:
- a new player wont notice that he is cloaked, and you should be able to "see" it.
- it wont be very obvious that there is someone cloaked in a group of people.
-why does every cloak look like all other cloaks (due same number)?

Although I don't like this ideal. (because I don't like thieves)

It is a good one. Instead of seeing "someone 12345" when you hit F12
you would see "someone cloaked"

They can remain cloaked until:
- they remove it
- they are cornered and cannot go anywhere
- they are killed
- they attack someone

I think that there should be a distance based system for showing the numbers:
1 square away, 5 numbers
2 squares away, 3 numbers
3 Squares away, 1 number
4 Squares away, "Cloaked"
5+ Squares away, Random number ((Changes Every 5 minutes))

So when you are cloce you can see past the disguise but at distance it is more fooling.

I like this idea of how close you are, the more numbers you see, but what about the people with less than 5 numbers?

You are able to cover all your face and only leave out holes for your eyes.
How can you recognize someone when you only see his eyes?

Yes, also some people may report number 1 or something yet the number of the real person is 12394. Newer people would have no clue. Although it is a good idea. Shouldn't the name just be left blank? Nothing at all. Not no name or number. Just a guy running around with a cloak. Besides who is to say that it is just for theives. Anyone could be wearing them.

It's "thieves". The E comes after the I.
THIEVES.
THIEVES.
THIEVES.
Maybe I, as someone whose mother tongue is german, can teach you a little bit english.
Please don't forget why we introduced the numbers: To be able to identify people. We may create such cloaks, people are anonymous then, this would cause quite some work for the programers, but what if it fails? What if people start misusing this? If there were only good roleplayers, I wouldn't worry about that. But experience tells me that there will be quite some people causing stress to illarion's staff. Also consider such things.

Martin

I don't know what you mean by that.

This can have two reasons. The first one is: I used unclear language.
The second one can be one of multiple possibilities, each of them means that you have probably posted on the wrong board.

Martin

Just a little funny note, In Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion - My fair aldy for you american musical fans - there is a Bulgarian prince who is found out that he is not english, precisely because he speaks it TOO well

anyways, Kasume, what Martin means is that the numbers were put there so that rule breakers could be recognised and dealt with ooc without revealing the name and identity of the rule breaker. If a person wears one of these thieve's cloaks he can do anything he likes, as noone will be able to see his number and report him. Thus, if the rp level was on sufficiently high level, people wouldn't do this, but past experience shows that it is very likely that some people will abuse of that.

better`?

How about this, each charater gets a cloak number, that way people don't know who they are, and they still have a random number, also this number would be individual, so if that person is reported, Bror, can look up who has that cloak number and deal with them.

This is a very intressting Proposal, but with a Fault in it.

This way you would cloak everytime exact the same way, and i doubt you will do this if you are a Thief.

Yup, in this proposal you would have everytime the same number... ( also the same clothes, mask etc. )

So could i say everytime which thieve done the robery yesterday, and whether the thieve who stole for one minute my bag was the same as yesterday. And i do not believe that is realistic.

Btw.: The proposal with a fixed number for a cloaked person isn´t new

hmm, yes there ARE problems but, what if the server logs couldnt "see" the cloak? then ONLY the mods could check it and find out who it is and punish them without the players knowing. Also you can now easily find out who a player is without being intro'd, its called the website. Even though you can alt-tab out, even if you couldnt you could log out,look,log back in easy. Also the range thing is good to. If we did have this cloaked thing, they would be able to tell the race of the criminal and the color of their "bar" thingy under them.

Actually no his cloaked number idea isn't new. He says that everyone has a different cloaked number. The other one was that every person has the same number when wearing a cloak. Although with this new idea it would actually work. No one could find out your number because they never know who puts it on unless they put it on right in front of them. It would actually work. Yet be a hassle to give people TWO numbers and yet more than half the people not even use the second number.

It is true that there are ways to identify who is rule breaking with him cloaked but in some cases this could be by passed and the ruler breaker would get away with it with someone else mistakenly getting into trouble with it. And yes...I said ruler breaker

Gro'bul wrote:hmm, yes there ARE problems but, what if the server logs couldnt "see" the cloak? then ONLY the mods could check it and find out who it is and punish them without the players knowing.

And again, what I wrote wasn't read carefully enough. I really get tired; I thought, reading is a basic skill which is taught in primary school. I'll repeat it for you:

martin wrote:But experience tells me that there will be quite some people causing stress to illarion's staff. Also consider such things.

What the hell does that mean?
The only way to find out a rulebreaker is that a staff member looks through a logfile which consists of some MB plain text. Do you have any idea how long this takes? Do you think that this is a work everyone wants to do in his/her spare time? This was exactly what I refered to as "stress for illarion's staff".

Why is it that I always write things and people don't read it and keep posting the same things over and over again? My little screenshot-experiment showed exactly the same: "Use png or jpeg, don't include the inventory etc." -- what did I receive? Two uncompressed bmp's, one including the inventory, the other one somehow "destroyed".
I said: "You can participate with two pictures", the first question was: "How many images are we allowed to send?"

Please hold in mind, that Illarion is recommended for players of age 16 (or above). People usually are able to read at this age. This does not only mean that they can recognize the individual letters, it also means that they have at least a basic understanding of what the meaning of a text is. If you think that this is more than you could handle, simply play Pokemon(c) or something.

Martin