Illarion.org

Dear townsfolk,
die deutsche Übersetzung werde ich bald veröffentlichen


I have spent my time in silence and observation the past months. My eyes have seen many wrong deeds and my ears have heard many cries for justice, but nothing has happened so far.

Though a law system and or court system has been discussed many times, never have we spoken with one single voice and approved what ideas had been suggested - more to our own disadvantage than the disadvantage of the wrong doers.

As far as I see things...

I can say that we have a prison now, but we have no institution, except the gods, that would be able to imprison someone that has commited a crime.

We do not even have an official law system, that would precisely tell, who did or did not commit a crime.

We punish a wrong-doer by death in self-justice, no matter what sort of crime was commited.


I do not approve this state of affairs any longer. It is simply wrong and we gain nothing if we carry on like this, but lose our own dignity. Therefore I want to come up with a reasonable suggestion and I ask of you to hear me out and rally behind me in this case. Keep in mind that I do not wish to give advantage or disadvantage to any race, nor to the townsfolk that is not member of a guild or member of a guild. Keep in mind that this court shall not be a permanent one, but at least one we can build our experiences on.


The Court:
consists of 3 judges, plaintiff, defendand, witnesses for the prosecussion and witnesses for the defendand.

Before the court is called to act the plaintiff is supposed to charge the wrong doer and the townfolk is asked to take side - either for the plaintiff or the defendand - they are witnesses so to say.
The plaintiff is allowed to ask for two particular judges while the defendand is allowed to ask for one particular judge.

The Judges:
each honorable guild ((accepted by the GM´s --> official link in homepage section)), namely...

Esyptheus Klan, Grey Rose, Shi Long Monastery, Order of the Grey Light, Elven Community, Druids of the Forest, The Council, Desert Ork´s Clan, Rangers, The Bargain Masters, The Bloodskull Clan

is supposed to nominate up to 2 judges.

I did not mention the "Clan of Axe" since they do obbey the laws of their king in Silverbrand and if a dwarf is accused of a crime on the surface I suggest that king Tialdin automatically is one of the three judges, unless his highness refuses to defend one of his kin or the accused dwarf refuses to have king Tialdin as his judge.

Furthermore I want to adress all the people that do not have membership in a guild to nominate up to three judges by themselves.

All these judges shall be announced publicly on a list. We have 12 parties and a maximum of 25 judges.

Laws:
to be able to introduce a law or a set of laws a High Council out of these 23 judges shall be created. The High Council of Judges shall consist of 5 judges wich will be elected by all the judges. To introduce a law at least 3 out of 5 judges have to be for it. Any citizen is welcome to place his suggestion for a law before the High Council.

Fees:
where there is administration there are fees - I suggest that there is a fee of 5 silver bars, that has to be paid to the court. Each judge will receive 200g for his services - the rest of the fee shall be devided by three and given to the guilds that are represented by their judge in this particular affair.

Why so?

Each judge will have an extra reason to be just - the judge will earn some money and the guilds will look to it to have good judges because they have an interest in earning some pocket money for their own affairs.
Of course the fee shall be payed by the party that lost the trial. If that party cannot pay in money it will have to pay in raw materials such as coal, ore, wood, raw gems, herbs... according to smaac price list.



I think this is reasonable enough for all of us citizen. Nevertheless I shall add a poll to this brisant topic and would welcome it, if reasons were given, why one is for or against it.
I thank you all for listening me out.


with regards,
Morgaine Le Fay


((edit))
Morgaine Le Fay choses to add to the script one name "The Bloodskull Clan" - then she walks away again

Such an idea is good, but needs support to be effective. The guilds can support it, however, when working together.
These things must be planned carefully, and are about to be planned. We must do something, and we will.

The council will be happy to participate in this if it goes ahead


Srathrate

I propose that the Hobbiteers get the chance to choose a judge, because they are just and fair.

And what about the Bloodskull Clan?? We've been around here for a while....Are we not included to the ability of electing judges?

Amen to that, we have gone through the period of Blackstone, and people defending the blackstone criminals, and there are still evil doers being defended, it is quite sad and something needs to be done here.

Dear Bumbol Woodstock,

I am trying to set up a "standard" of which guilds are allowed to nominate judges and which are not. The basic idea, which is behind all this, is, that we do not have too many judges after all. There have been many guilds that were and now are lost in the tides of times. I thought about naming all the guilds that are named in the book of guilds - this would mean the following guilds...

United Coat of Arms, The intermediate Wizards Guild, The Ironhammers, Hobbiteers, Cult of the Diamond, Cult of the Blackstone, The Goldsmithing Guild, The Keepers of the Peace Guild, The Artemis Alliance Guild, Guild of Thieves, Druids of Trolls Bane, Cooperative Farmers Guild, YKC, Zelphia's Dragoons, Lizard Guild, Das Bündniss vom Wasserberg, Voodoo Guild, The Rednecks, The Stonewood Fellowship....

would also be able to nominate up to two judges. Instead of having 23 judges - which is a lot already - we would have 61 judges. You must agree that this is far too many judges... the whole plan of giving our community some structure would already fail by the fact that the whole island would be crowded by personalities that would claim to be judges and which could easily misunderstand their position as to enforce the law by their own free will.

I suggest that the Hobbiteers, of which i am certain that they are just, contact administration which will allow them to become a legal guild. As I said, this is not meant to be a permanent court, but at least one we can build our experiences on. As soon as the Hobiteers are also a honorable guild they can nominate two judges themselves.



My dear friend Veralion,

I did not mean not to let you honorable orcs of the Bloodskull's nominate your own judge. Nevertheless, what was said to Bumbol does not affect the Bloodskull's for one single reason - the Bloodskull's have been here long before I have even set foot on this island. The Bloodskull's have proven worthy many a time and I think that you are worthy of nominating your own two judges. I appologise for not mentioning your clan right away - I had been working systematically on this matter and must have forgotten completely to put your guilds name on the list.



with regards,
Morgaine Le Fay

The hobbiteers can't have a judge.... but the Bargain Masters can?!?!
I don't mind the guild not having a judge, but it is a slap in the face when you think a trading guild is more honorable then one trying to make a village.

Thank you Morgaine... Now can you please tell me what I must put on to my clan. How many judges shall we be allowed to elect to represent the clan? I am still a bit lost on this subject... Thank you again,
Veralion

Bumbol Woodstock.

Many other guilds tried to build a town too, but that didn´t mean the gild were respectable.
Sorry, if i say it in such "manner".

The Bargen Masters to be longer in existence, as the Hobbiteers or other coalitions, if the Hobbiteers are allowed to set a judge "we" have to allow it all the others too.

And you can imagine where this will be end.

I support this idea. But I don't understand why a guild to make money is to decide in a trial. It does not work. They are traders, not judges. I think the Ranger, Grey Rose and other more noble guilds would be better judges.

But Bumbol "traders" represent a important part from our economy and know many things about it.
They have a other "view", which we need to legislate a law too.
A judge for example from the grey light and a "trader gild" complete each other good and make the "law" more universal.

That doesn´t mean, that i support the Bargen Masters, but i believe generally in "trader-judges".

____________
Fieps

Two nomonies to be a judge from the Bargen Masters.
thinks hard
#1=me
((can it be my other charector?))
#2=Drolagas or Deats
((ps::: the the guild name is spelled bargEn, with the E intentianol, not bargAIn. please remember this!!!))

Dearn Townsfolk,


perhaps I have to make myself more clear. Again I shall first bring to your mind that I do not intend to give advantage or disadvantage to a particular guild or race - nor do I intend to give advantage or disadvantage to the townsfolk that is member or is not member of a guild.

I shall also bring to your mind that this court that I do suggest is not meant to be a permanent one in the structure that I am suggesting just now, but at least a court which will bring to us the experience and practical knowledge of how to install a permanent court or change this court to the better of all races and guilds.

The idea behind this suggestion is to gain BROAD acceptance for this kind of court among ALL citizen - it does not really matter now, who will be nominated a judge, nor to what guild or race this judge belongs.
This suggestion of mine shall give us all an idea of some balance amongst all our interests and a good feeling for such a court. The guilds that are not mentioned above can still rally behind one person in their guild and nominate him or her as a judge, which will be treated as a judge that is elected from townsfolk that does not belong to a guild.

Keep the following steps in mind...

1. gain BROAD acceptance amongst the townfolk and guilds

2. install a High Council that can install laws

3. introduce a law that will regulate the period of time for new elections in the High Concil

4. introduce a law that will regulate a rotational based nomination of
judges for the guilds itself, which basically means, that ALL guilds will
be able to nominate two candidates - the election itself will show, who
will be made a judge and who will not

5. cut down the staff of judges to a reasonable amount (I think 15 judges
would be just fine)


Again - I want to give everybody an idea how we could do so - suggestions that are concerning the principal of this system are most welcome.




with regards,
Morgaine Le Fay

Gigasha does what Gigasha wants. Judge...no judge...make no difference to me.

Hmm, Gigasha has a point. People will do just the same thing as they already are doing.
After laws are made who will enforce them? Who will enforce them justly? And how is someone determined innocent or guilty. Mere accusations would not suffice.
I hope this may work, but there is always room for corruption or those seeking power over morals.
I look forward to seeing how this Government progresses.

Elaralith speaks her mind...

To this proposal, I see much potential for good. Justice is needed in our anarchial town. I have seen too many who are too weak to protect themselves be bullied and made the targets of by such law-breakers that there be...thieves and murderers run rampant. All wisdom must be used in this course as there is also much potential for evil here...in the form of a dictatorial "council" which would be just as bad as our current state of chaos. My counsel is as usual free for the taking...for this to succeed the gods must be in support of it and their counsel taken.
May the Wisdom of Elara shine upon this proposal and cause it to grow into full glory and goodness!

~Elaralith, Priestess of Elara~

Elaralith gripping her wizard's staff wanders off, deciding to keep an eye on these events and pray dearly for its safe journey to success.

I surport this idea, although I would have wanted the Hobbiteers to be included in the list of honorable guilds that would nominate judges.

Crosis

i think that teh Hobbiteers should be considered a respectable guild. It seems fair to me. I feel that they should be able to nominate judges.

I would sssupport this, under the underssstanding that all recognized guildsss get to have a judge.

The abssstraction as to if it is a good guild or a bad guild I don't think is up to us to sssay. Who are we to sssay that guild eckss is a good guild, but clan why is a bad guild? Are we dietiesss now?

Let the lotsss determine who isss to try it.

Mysself, I alssso do asss I wissh, but I recognize that for their to be a sssafe home there must be rulesss.

If, however, sssome guildsss can not have a judge but sssome can, then that isss a powerssstruggle and no one can sssay who isss good and who isss bad but themssselves.

Issssn't the idea of jussstice to do what isss right? Not what you think isss right, but what isss right.

Dear Morgaine,

Your intentions are noble, but your method of organization is still unable to combat the same fundamental problems that impedes the formation of civil institutions in Troll's Bane.

The quality of the judges and laws are of utmost importance. Simply picking guilds that are located nearby ((on the links)) or allowing anyone that claims to be a guild will do nothing to ensure that those guilds have a leader and members that are reliable and responsible citizens of Troll's Bane, or that they represent any significant groups of people. If these conditions are not well accounted for, then the entire purpose of using guilds as a base is useless.

So then, how can we decide which guilds have enough quality and how can we agree on the criteria?

As the number of people involved increases, the more the difficulty of making decisions together will increase. In order to set up a foundation effectively and maximize its quality, it is better to start with a smaller circle of people, and grow outwards, rather than trying to incorporate a vast multitude of people all at once.

And so in understanding this concept, the leaders of 5 elder guilds of Troll's Bane have already formed an institution together, which will incorporate other guilds but whose elegibility they can determine between them to maximize the quality of involved parties. Effective communications have already been set up in a private meeting hall ((board)), and for several months prepared several basic laws that are already agreed amongst themselves. In this way, legitimacy is already secured amongst ourselves so we can grow outwards to incorporate others who agree with the principles we've laid, rather than trying to get a vast multitude of people to agree on the same things all at once.

So in order to lay down the fundamental basic groundworks, we invite the people of Troll's Bane to examine the workings of the Lyrenzia Foundation, which is about to begin.

Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy

Dear Dyluck,


before I start to explain myself again I would like to state, that at the time I had set this proposal on the boards there was no sign of the Lyrenzia Foundation, nor had anybody informed me, that there was a plan to create such an Alliance.
Perhaps I should say in my ignorance that I would very much appreciate if the Foundation of Lyrenzia would also take interest in this proposal and be a bearer of this matter.

But now I want to answer to some of the things that you have stated above. You said, and actually it has been said many times before - i am quite aware of this problem - that as the number of people involved increases, the more difficult it would be to make decisions.
You are very right, but I doubt that you understand fully why I have chosen that way. I had been following discussions over and over again, which were always working with the same schemes - unfortunately I must also say, that the Lyrenzia Foundation has come to life using the same principles.

A group decides on what they want to do, no matter if it be a town guard or a government, and declare it to the public. The public has two choices, either to accept or not to accept, while not accepting mostly meant in the past that people would come together and fight against it.

If you had been reading through carefully on which guilds I did propose to take action in this proposal you would have noticed that all guilds, that are now forming the Lyrenzia Foundation are included and that I was not randomly chosing any guild that would come to my mind. True, I did not chose the Magic Academy, but this be of another reason... the Academy is a school to me and not the bearer of some political interests. An Academy should not get involved in political matters, but that is only my opinion.

Why I have chosen to take another way is very simple. I do not want to confront the townfolk with settled matters as you did and hope that with time all the people will either learn to live with it or in the best case try to be part of it. With this proposal I do not intend to create a gouvernment, but a judical system that is upheld by all townsfolk (in the best case), but at least by a vast majority. And I also want that the majority of the townsfolk - that includes the guilds as well - to take part in the creation of a law system that will be accepted by all.

It is very simple. My interests are that all the guilds that are namely stated above will state if they are for this system or against it and I also want other guilds, that have not the status of being an "elder" or "honorable" guild and will not have the opportunity to have a "voice" in the first step of creating such an judical system and law system to at least accept and uphold its existance until the first real elections can be taken place.
If you had read what steps I think are necessary to make this judical system work you will know what I am refering to just now. My personal feeling about this way of creating some reasonable law system are very positive. And I think that it would work out very good, since I also call all citizen to take part in the creation of reasonable laws, that will be confirmed by the High Council of Judges.

So what do we gain? In my opinion a lot. The guilds will not have to be scared to be left out, since a vast majority of the "elder" or "honorable" guilds will be represented by their own two nominates, that can be elected into the High Council. The free people that do not belong to any guild can still rally up behind one person (three judges) and perhaps this person will be also elected into the High Council. The personality of the individual will count more than his or her heritage so to say. And I think that it is quite necessary to have strong, reasonable, wise and just personalities as judges. All the nominates from the guilds will surely meet this standard, since all the guilds will be interested - as was stated above - to have personalities that are gladly taken as judges, because this also means that the guild itself will earn a little money through a process.

You said that during several month you have worked out basic laws that were already agreed amongst yourselves, laws that would secure your legitimacy amongst yourselves. Well, I want to secure a legitimacy of a judical system amongst the townsfolk and guilds. This be the reason why I have to work in a different way.

Perhaps I should again make clear that I would welcome all the elder guilds and guilds that have not reached such status just now ((not legal to the gms)) would please carefully read through my proposal and state, if they are positive about it, or if they will ignore it. If all of us can agree on it, and I think that it is quite a good deal, then we could take further steps together and start a new era in Trolls Bane.


thank you


with regards,
Morgaine Le Fay

Geschätzte Bevölkerung Trolls Bane,


die letzen Monate verbrachte ich damit, das aktuelle Geschehen wortlos zu beobachten. Ich habe vieles gesehen und zu meinen Ohren drangen immer wieder Rufe nach Gerechtigkeit, doch nichts ist bisher geschehen.

Obwohl schon einige Male darüber diskutiert wurde, ob ein Gericht oder Gesetze installiert werden sollen, haben wir es niemals geschafft mit einer Stimme zu sprechen und uns nie gemeinsam für eine Idee oder einen Vorschlag eingesetzt - mehr zu unserem eigenen Nachteil, als zum Nachteil jener, die diese Situation immer aufs neue für sich nützen konnten.

So wie ich die Dinge sehe...

kann ich sagen, dass wir ein Gefängniss haben, doch keine Autorität, ausser den Göttern, die eine des Verbrechens schuldig befundene Person dort einschließen können.

kann ich sagen, dass wir keine offiziellen Gesetze haben, die uns sagen könnten, ob jemand ein Verbrechen begangen hat oder nicht.

kann ich sagen, dass wir in Selbstjustiz Leute ermorden, die vielleicht ein Verbrechen begangen haben, oder auch nicht.


Ich kann diese Umstände nicht länger für ,,Gut'' heißen. Es ist falsch so weiterzumachen und anstatt etwas durch solche Aktionen zu erreichen, verlieren wir an Würde und Glaubwürdigkeit.

Aus diesem Grund habe ich beschlossen, einen Entwurf vorzulegen, wie wir es schaffen könnten eine gesetzgebende Instanz zu gründen und möchte Euch bitten mich anzuhören, und Euch hinter mir zu vereinen.

Behaltet im Auge, dass es nicht meine Absicht ist, Vorteile oder Nachteilen einer bestimmten Rasse, Gemeinschaft oder Gilde mit diesem Vorschlag zu verschaffen. Behaltet im Auge, dass es nicht meine Absicht ist, mit diesem Vorschlag ein permanentes Gericht in der von mir beschriebenen Form zu installieren, jedoch zumindest ein Gericht, daß es uns ermöglicht, praktische Erfahrungen zu sammeln und nach diesen ein Gericht zu formen, mit welchem alle Bürger Trolls Bane einverstanden und zufrieden sein können.


Das Gericht:
bestehend aus 3 Richtern, Kläger, Angeklagtem, Belastungszeugen und Entlastungszeugen
bevor das Gericht einberufen wird, muss der Kläger eine Anklageschrift aufsetzen und die Bevölkerung wird aufgerufen als Zeuge Partei zu ergreifen. dem Kläger stehen zwei Richter zu, dem Angeklagtem einer - beide Parteien dürfen sich den oder die jeweilige/n/m Richter aussuchen.

Die Richter:
jede ,,ehrenwerte'' Gilde ((von dem GM´s akzeptiert --> offiziell mit der Illarion Seite verlinkt)) , namentlich...

Esyptheus Klan, Graue Rose, Shi Long Kloster, Orden des Grauen Lichts, The Bargen Masters, Elfen Kommune, Druiden des Waldes, Der Rat, Desert Ork Klan, Rangers, Bloodskull Klan

sollen bis zu zwei Mitglieder aus ihren Reihen für den Sitz eines Richters nominieren.

Ich habe den ,,Klan der Axt'' nicht aufgeführt, da dieser den Gesetzen König Tialdins und Silberbrands unterstellt ist - sollte ein Zwerg gerichtlich verfolgt werden, schlage ich vor, daß König Tialdin selbst in diesem Falle automatisch den Sitz eines Richters im Prozeß gegen einen Zwerg bekommt - Ausnahme wäre, König Tialdin will nicht Partei ergreifen, oder der Zwerg weigert sich König Tialdin als Richter anzuerkennen. Weiters möchte ich hier betonen, dass jene Bürger, die keine Mitgliedschaft in einer Gilde haben, selbst bis zu drei Richter nominieren.
All diese Richter sollen öffentlich auf einer Liste bekannt gegeben werden. Somit hätten wir 12 Parteien und ein maximum an 25 Richtern.

Gesetze:
um Gesetze für alle Bürger Trolls Bane zu formulieren, soll ein Richterrat, bestehend aus 5 Richtern von diesen 25 Richtern gewählt werden. Dieser Richterrat wird sich mit Gesetzen befaßen und diese nur dann verabschieden können, wenn mindestens 3 der 5 Richter für dieses Gesetz stimmen. Alle Bürger Trolls Bane sind aufgefordert, Gesetzesvorschläge an den Richterrat weiterzuleiten.

Gebühren:
jegliche Art von Administration soll auch mit Geld entlohnt werden - ich schlage vor, daß sich die Gerichtskosten auf 5 Silberbarren belaufen - 200 Goldstücke soll jeder der Richter für seine Arbeit bekommen - die restliche Summe soll auf jene Gilden abgeführt werden, die den am laufenden Prozeß beteiligten Richter stellen.

Weshalb?

jedem Richter wird somit ein Grund mehr gegeben werden, sich der Sache wirklich gründlich anzunehmen, da er ein wenig mit seiner Arbeit verdienen kann - jede Gilde wird ihr eigenes Interesse haben, gute Richter zu entsenden, da sie an jedem Prozeß mitverdienen können.
Natürlich trägt jene Partei die Gerichtskosten, die den Prozeß verloren hat. Wenn diese Partei die Gerichtskosten nicht bezahlen kann, so muß sie diese in Naturalien abbezahlen z.B. Kohle, Erz, Holz, Kräuter, rohe Edelsteine... entsprechend dem Wert in der Smaac Liste.

Ich glaube hiermit einen nützlichen und für uns alle annehmbaren Vorschlag gemacht zu haben. Ich würde mich freuen, wenn Argumente oder Gegenargumente fallen, die diesen Vorschlag weiter behandeln.



mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Morgaine Le Fay



aus einer Diskussion mit Bumbol Woodstock, der fragt, weshalb die Hobbiteers nicht zu jenen Gilden gehören, die ich für das nominieren der Richter vorgeschlagen habe:


Ehrenwerter Bumbol Woodstock,

ich versuche einen Standard herzustellen, welcher gewissen Gilden erlaubt einen Richter zu nominieren und welchen nicht. Der wesentliche Kern der Sache ist dabei, daß wir nicht zu viele Richter in Trolls Bane haben. In unserer Vergangenheit gab es viele Gilden, welche heute in Vergessenheit geraten sind. Zuerst dachte ich daran, all jene Gilden namentlich zu erwähnen, die im Buch der Gilden zu finden sind, doch dies würde folgendes bedeuten...

United Coat of Arms, The intermediate Wizards Guild, The Ironhammers, Hobbiteers, Cult of the Diamond, Cult of the Blackstone, The Goldsmithing Guild, The Keepers of the Peace Guild, The Artemis Alliance Guild, Guild of Thieves, Druids of Trolls Bane, Cooperative Farmers Guild, YKC, Zelphia's Dragoons, Lizard Guild, Das Bündniss vom Wasserberg, Voodoo Guild, The Rednecks, The Stonewood Fellowship...

wären auch Gilden, welchen es erlaubt sein müßte, bis zu zwei Richter zu nominieren. Anstelle von 23 Richtern - welches bereits eine sehr grosse Anzahl ist - hätten wir 61 Richter. Ihr müßt einsehen, dass das wohl zu viele Richter wären... der komplette Plan unserer Gesellschaft ein wenig Struktur zu geben, würde schon daran fehlschlagen, daß es zu viele Persönlichkeiten gäbe, die möglichweise ihr Richteramt und Mitspracherecht dazu mißbrauchen könnten, Gesetze nach ihrem eigenen Gutdünken zu erzwingen.

... der weitere Teil befaßt sich nurmehr mit einem Vorschlag für Bumbol und die Hobbiteers.



Geschätzte Bürger,

vielleicht hatte ich mich nicht deutlich genug ausgedrückt und will dies nun nachholen. Zuerst möchte ich nochmals darauf hinweisen, daß es nicht in meiner Absicht liegt, Vorteile oder Nachteile einer bestimmten Rasse, Gilde oder Gemeinschaft zu verschaffen. Und ich möchte ausdrücklich noch darauf hinweisen, daß dieser Vorschlag zur Bildung einer gesetzgebenden Instanz nicht unbedingt den ,,status quo'' haben soll, sondern vielmehr als ausbaubare Basis dienen soll, welche auf praktischen Erfahrungen in der Zukunft aufbaut.
Der grundlegende Gedanke dieses Vorschlages ist es, eine BREITE Unterstützung für eine gesetzgebende Instanz unter der GANZEN Bevölkerung zu bekommen - es spielt dabei vorerst keine große Rolle, wer für einen Richtersitz nominiert wird, noch welcher Rasse oder welcher Gilde dieser Richter angehört. Dieser Vorschlag soll uns allen eine Vorstellung geben, wie wir eine Waage zwischen all unseren Interessen und Vorstellungen schaffen können und uns allen ein möglichst positives Gefühl für ein solches Gericht geben. Jene Gilden, die nicht von mir aufgeführt worden sind können dennoch einen Richter nominieren, indem sie sich für eine Person stark machen und diese als ,,freie'' Bürger (keiner Gilde zugehörigen Bürger) vorschlagen.

Folgende Schritte sollen beachtet werden...

1. eine BREITE Unterstützung unter der Bevölkerung und Gilden finden

2. einen Richterrat ernennen, welchem es möglich ist, Gesetze zu verabschieden

3. ein Gesetz zu Neuwahlen in den Richterrat verabschieden

4. ein Gesetz zur Regulierung nach Rotationsprinzip für die Nominierung neuer Richter aus den Reihen der Gilden bestimmen - die Wahlen selbst werden zeigen, welche Richter eine breitere Unterstützung und Akzeptanz unter den Gilden bekommen

5. die Anzahl der Richter von max 25 auf eine vernünftige Zahl beschränken (ich denke 15 wären mehr als ausreichend)


Wiederum möchte ich nur einen Anstoß geben, wie die mögliche Vorgehensweise aussehen könnte. Kritik oder Vorschläge, die an dieses von mir vorgeschlagene System gerichtet sind, ist erwünscht. Weiters möchte ich betonen, daß es von höchster Wichtigkeit ist, daß bestehende Gilden zu diesem Vorschlag Stellung nehmen. Damit wäre von vorn herein klargestellt, ob es sich lohnt, an diesem Vorschlag weiterzuarbeiten oder nicht.



mit freundlichsten Grüßen,
Morgaine Le Fay

Dear Morgaine,
The Lyrenzia foundation - or, some of its members - have read your proposal. You and Dyluck both are right in several things.
I think, you should remember the Lyrenzia foundation of your idea. We will find a way to realize it. The Foundation serves the public.
Please stay in direct Contact with Dyluck, Aragon and me, as well as with the other guilds. You have proven to be able to use your head.

Dear Morgaine,

Morgaine Le Fay wrote: A group decides on what they want to do, no matter if it be a town guard or a government, and declare it to the public. The public has two choices, either to accept or not to accept, while not accepting mostly meant in the past that people would come together and fight against it.

I'm afriad that you have missed one fundamental difference: Lyrenzia has not declared government or any kind of official regency. In this case, people only have to join us if they want to, and when they do, they are joining a solidified group that has already has a strong structure and quality within them. However in your case, there is already dispute of things such as which guilds should be eligible because you are forced to account for a HUGE number of people at the same time. You will have to assume that somehow those that speak here will give a good representation of the majority out there, of which we only have a vague idea of how many people are out there exactly. Not to mention that it does not ensure that those who speak here actually well well behaved, wise, reliable citizens of Troll's Bane.

Morgaine Le Fay wrote:If you had been reading through carefully on which guilds I did propose to take action in this proposal you would have noticed that all guilds, that are now forming the Lyrenzia Foundation are included and that I was not randomly chosing any guild that would come to my mind.

You may not have picked them "randomly" but you picked them from a critera that is meaningless and does nothing to determine the quality of the guilds and people who will decide justice and make laws, and that is a VERY important groundwork. Will justice and laws be decided by anyone who just happens to call themself a guild? I think not. That defeats the whole purpose of using guilds.[/quote]

Morgaine Le Fay wrote:and perhaps this person will be also elected into the High Council. The personality of the individual will count more than his or her heritage so to say. And I think that it is quite necessary to have strong, reasonable, wise and just personalities as judges. All the nominates from the guilds will surely meet this standard, since all the guilds will be interested - as was stated above - to have personalities that are gladly taken as judges, because this also means that the guild itself will earn a little money through a process.

Once again, how can you say nominees from the guilds were surely meet this standard when the quality of the guild and its leaders and members are not even determined? Will we just assume that anybody who calls themself a guild will automatically mean they are reasonable, wise, and just?

Morgaine Le Fay wrote:Why I have chosen to take another way is very simple. I do not want to confront the townfolk with settled matters as you did and hope that with time all the people will either learn to live with it or in the best case try to be part of it. With this proposal I do not intend to create a gouvernment, but a judical system that is upheld by all townsfolk (in the best case), but at least by a vast majority. And I also want that the majority of the townsfolk - that includes the guilds as well - to take part in the creation of a law system that will be accepted by all.

Like I said, as the number of people increases, the difficultly to do things increases. It's easy for you to say you want the participation of the people and a vast majority, but have you really thought about how difficult it would actually be to start working together just like this? How will you actually "finish" an agreement on things like specific criteria as such a large group? Who or how can you decide how many people need to support something before it is considered something accepted by the "vast majority"?

This idea of an election is constantly brought up by someone, but they forget that Troll's Bane does not yet have an effective way to determine who are legititmate citizens who can vote. If we take any vote that comes along, think how easy it make fake votes and such.

Morgaine Le Fay wrote:You said that during several month you have worked out basic laws that were already agreed amongst yourselves, laws that would secure your legitimacy amongst yourselves. Well, I want to secure a legitimacy of a judical system amongst the townsfolk and guilds. This be the reason why I have to work in a different way.

Once again, who or how will you "secure" legitimacy amongst such a vast population all at once? It's so easy for you to say it, but how can you do it? Would legitimacy not be more easily secured within a small quality group and then grow outwards?

Think of this way. We are building a house, similar to gathering people into agreement. But you are trying to build the entire house, the roof, the walls, the foundation all the same time. In the end, all the pieces are needed, but you need to build a secure foundation first before you can move on to put more things on it. The foundation needs to be the right building materials. You won't have a good foundation if you take any piece of the house you can find lying around to use as a foundation, such as a piece of a window or a roof shingle.


Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy