Illarion.org

Greetings!

I propose that the monster difficulty be raised beyond what it is now. On the website, a very good picture of illarion is painted, but in the game some things need some work (which is understandable). On the website, it speaks of some monsters needing up to a group of players to defeat, and I think that is great! Currently in illarion though one who wears has high parry can pretty much never get hit by any monster. I propose in addition to having the difficulty of all monsters raised, a "random factor" where even if a fighter is maxed in parry he will still get hit at times. There is a risk in fighting, and this could be it. I do not think there is any figher who can never get hit is reasonable. Especially concerning some specific monsters, it galls me that they are so easily destroyed. For example, the demon. Demons as far as my understanding are great evil beasts with enormous power at their hands. The way they can be defeated so easily right now is a pathetic sight. And to add more hurt to the wound some players can defeat demons without even getting one injury! Please consider what I have written.
Thank you for your time!
-Elaralith

I fully agree. The creatures should be difficult to kill and no mater how much armor you have or how good your pary skill is your enemy could still delever a lucky blow and injure you.

I am new and don't get to play a lot (sometimes only 3 - 4 hours a week).
The only thing I've tackled is pigs, the swarming insects, and the mummies north of the cross. I thought the mummies were too easy for someone as new as I am. (that is until 2 or 3 of them ganged up on me)

I agree that some monsters, demons in particular, should be made more difficult. But this will require some tweaking of the combat system since making them just a little more difficult would tend to make them impossible.

There is a fine line now between hard and impossible in the combat system, with no finer tuning that can really be done. I plan on looking at the combat system formulas in the future, not right now, and try to get more of a "range" out of them.

Until that time, however, even making them a "little" more difficult would make them one hitters, they hit you once and you would die.

Btw. a few stronger "monsters" still exist yet, where several people are needed to fight them up. But they are played by GMs (like Ashkatuul and Drakhen and others).
But I think, it is only useful to take them, if there is a story behind their coming. Not only for the joy of players, having to fight a strong monster.

Even as A fighter myself I have to agree, I much prefer it now I can be hit as before it was just go stand chop train, but now there is a little more exitement. I also think that if monsters attack in groups there should be more chance of getting hit, you cannot defend against them all at once, as I understand when groups fight at the moment you only get hit more because there is more shots being taken at you but the average of hits is still the same as if you were fighting one monster.

Guingalan,

Also, would it be somehow possible to bit randomise the vulnerability of monsters to Ranged, Melee and magic, so the two demons would not be identical, but the other could be very resistant to melee, and the other on to magic. (Correct me if this is already implemented, I don't know since I don't battle the monsters some much anymore)

NO. dont rise the monsters. Im cant defend a mummy but my parry is high. and if you raise them I will kill by every fly I meet.

What if people dont fight in groups?

Than its your own fault, Fooser.

Is it possible to make the monsters hit you more often but with lesser Damage to you? That would be in my eyes better than a One-Hit-Your-Death-Monster.

What if people don't feel like waiting for people they know to log on? And also it would further put more stress on the new people, making it more difficult.

Of course the strong monsters wouldn't be placed so every new player will accidentally run into them. If they go where they are and get killed then it's solely their own fault.

Exactly Loki. The way it is now the more difficult monsters are farther away from the town and this would be realistic in my mind because the warriors of the town would have killed the more dangerous beasts that were closest to the town so the town would be safe very early on. The flies and mummies would be more of a hassle because they're numerous and a great warrior wouldn't be wasting their time in swatting flies. So as it is now a new player is fairly safe if they stay close to town and the more experienced they become in the ways of protecting themselves the farther they can venture from the safety of town. Harder monsters would be kept away from the center of town unless of course there was some role-play reason that they were there such as one of the attacks by the more powerful liches or necromancers. I don't think that every monster out there should be able to hit a 'master' warrior because they're usually wearing a ton of armor and the actual monsters are too weak to hit through this material enough to do damage. I know that if I take off armor and try to fight just about every monster can still hit me so it's not completely dependant on skill now. It has a lot to do with the armor and weapons you use. I agree that slight variation would be nice as well as the idea that more monsters attacking one person at a single time should be more successful in hitting their target as the person would be more hard pressed to parry and attack with two swords coming down at their head than one. There could be some mathematical model assigned to this feature such as an X^n probability of being hit. So if there is only one monster you have the probability of X monsters power to the first degree of likelihood. If there were two X monsters it would square the probability of being hit. 3 monsters would raise the chances of being hit to the third power and so on. This is just a simple example and would probably need to be refined because if you had a few of the really difficult monsters attacking you then you would surely be dead and this would decrease the chances of anyone becoming a warrior legend in their abilities to survive unbeatable odds.

Fooser, if you're going to be a warrior then you have to be somewhat realistic and realize that one person could not defeat some monster (yes I realize that in reality you don't fight monsters but in the reality of illarion you do) that is stronger than yourself single handedly and would need to rely on other people for help until you're a more experienced fighter. Even when you're the most experienced fighter that you could possibly be it would still be dangerous to fight with monsters and especially with the more powerful monsters such as spiders and demons. You can't do everything yourself in life and you don't HAVE to be a warrior. You don't HAVE to go fight monsters. You do so because you want to and as such you should have to do so in a realistic way. If you don't want to be a warrior or to be hurt by monsters you have a few options. You can stay in town and be a civilized person or you could travel in groups when leaving the town. It's really quite simple. If nobody else is online at the time then your character would either have to risk their lives to adventure into the wilds outside of the town or wait for someone else to go with them. It may be inconvenient to you personally but in a role-play frame of mind it makes perfect sense.

There are also old players cant defend those monsters.Me too.Only while a few people go out raising her killing skills you will put the monster strength higher? When will this stop?
Correct the to high raising of the skills of the warriors.
Im dead with 3-4 hits of a mummie. My only hope is to cast fast enough on it. But many spells deflagrate but my magic is quit good.
So I ask myself why I have to die so many times when I go out. My parry is hight my magic also but I die.

If you have high parry and are wearing very good armor you shouldn't be hurt so badly unless your attributes are very low in which case you can only blame yourself. My attributes are not 'maxed' for a 'fighter' either if you're thinking that. They're more spread around and I am able to fight against some of those monsters if I'm cornered but I don't go out and try to fight anything for the sake of fighting. If you can't go out of the town then why try? You don't have to fight the mummies but you try to anyway. Not everyone was meant to fight monsters Sir Giandor. You may want to but you're not able to alone so get help from other characters if you're going to go battle monsters or even walk outside the town. The world is a very dangerous place. My point is that you shouldn't be safe to walk outside of the only town on an island full of monsters unless you're one of the few who can defend themselves. If you're not one as most are not then you will need to enlist the help of others. Monsters are made to be difficult or they would just be annoyances instead of fearsome monsters. I do think that some of the monsters should be made more difficult so only the very best fighter could even think about fighting it alone such as the demon but as Serpardum said that isn't possible at this time.

It would put a lot of people at a disadvantage to put it simply. And for the fact of putting monsters far away: It wouldn't matter. That would just mean that exploring the map would be too much of a hassle.

Fooser. You still don't understand. Not everyone should be an explorer. The world of illarion is dangerous inside and outside of the city. You have less than innocent people inside the city you have to worry about and once you leave the protection of town you have monsters and apparently now you have traps to worry about as well. These are there for a reason. If you want monsters that are easy enough that you don't have to worry about them then why even have them at all? Not everyone should realistically explore the whole of illarion. You'll have to come to realize that you can't do everything you want to because life brings limitations with it and in illarion life is to be imitated. This is the basis of role-play. With this said you should now see that you can't do everything nor should you expect to do so. If you think exploring the map is a hassle because there are monsters then you really need to rethink your stance on this topic because it's extremely wrong.

In some points you are right. But you dont understand me. I say : dont change the strength of the monsters. Change the player Chars so that it is not possible to kill them so easy. By regarding the weaker persons.

No, I understand, and it still dosen't sound good. This is beginning to sound like fencing people into town for six months until they have beaten enough flies to get decent parry/fighting skill.

You can evade the flies by going south. You can work your way around the monsters if you really want to get out of town Fooser. You shouldn't be trapped in town but you also shouldn't be free to go everywhere the second you start the game or even the first few days or possibly weeks. It should take time. Flies are easy to defeat if you travel with a few newbies and I am not saying you should make every monster impossible but there should be some variation in order to give monsters a purpose to all characters and not just to kill newbies. If an experienced fighter still has to concentrate in order to kill 4 skeletons at the same time instead of just lumbering in and being attacked and killing one at a time this would be better for the game.

I understand your points Sir Giandor too I think. Although if you randomize the strengh of each monsters slightly within a certain range for each monster (not very much but a few points of their averages in fighting skills) it would allow your character to remain as it was created and create some more difficult monsters in the process.

I´m not against strong monsters. I´m against the cleft from normal to fighting persons.
I´m good in parry and middling in attack.
So why it is not possible that a good parry helps you more to defend yourself. I dont want to attack. Dont want to slash somebody. But I want to be alive. I can defend 3-4 strikes from a monster or a Char but if one hit me I´m dead.

I know you can dodge monsters, thats what I did, but not-so-good fighters still can't go into the dungeons without being killed, or maybe even ogres, there is no need to change.

If that's how it is for you right now that means that your constitution if very low from when you made your character and that can't be changed, Sir Giandor. Constitution determines how many hit points you have in a very simplified definition. If you're saying you don't want monsters in the future to be so strong that they kill normal characters in one hit then I agree with you. I think there should be a few very strong monsters that would kill a normal character who was not a great warrior in one or two hits such as a dragon or a demon. This would only be right. Not a mummy possibly if the character was an average fighter. I'm sorry but I didn't understand your english as it's your second language. Sorry, it's no offense to you as your english does get your point across but just not to me at the moment .

Also da ich wie immer zwar englisch verstehe mich aber nicht ausrücken kann mach ichs mal wieder in Deutsch. (Wer lust und Zeit hat kann das übersetzen).

@ Sir Giandor:
Man muss sich nunmal damit abfinden das es Leute gibt die nicht zum Kämpfen geboren sind. Ich weiss auch noch nicht ob ich zum Krieger tauge. Dann muss man halt was anderes machen. Mann kann z.B. eine Gruppe Abenteurer als Heiler begleiten.

Ich finde Särkere Monster gut. Wieso nicht auch 1 Hit and Kill Monster. Ich hab schon von Onl. Rollenspielen gelesen da gab es Monster bei denen Hat es über ein Jahr gebraucht bis das mal besiegt wurde. Glaube über 20 man waren am Kampf beteiligt.

Man könnte auch Monster machen bei denen Jeder Krieger alt aussieht weil sie komplett gegen Physischen Schaden Immun sind sowas wie Geister. Diese muss man halt mit Magie Besiegen oder rennen.

Man hat so wenigstens was zu erzählen. Wenn jetzt jemand kommt und Sagt "Wow ich hab heut einen Dämon besiegt". Dann gibt es sicherlich welche die Sagen "Ach diese Flaschen die hau ich reihenweise um" Für Viele ist der Demon Nix besonderes mehr. Doch wenn ein kompletter Clan eine Riesige Schlacht gegen einen Drachen Organisiert bei denen 12 Man schon kräftig zu tun haben. Wird die sache schon interessanter.

Yes please raise the difficulty of the Creatures, the regular demon skills should be transfered to another but quite different creature. PLease dont touch the other creatures such as flies and mummies they are fine as they are.

It would be nice if the number of creatures in the spider cave be reduced a little, you never know when you go in you are dead. This has happened before to everone and leave the creatures in the spider cave alone also they are quite difficult to fight against. Even though I am a skilled fighter the spiders still prove to be quite difficult.

What ever you do just dont make them so hard that someone wil die in a few hits or 1 hit, that would be very Evil.

So shouldn't all the 2-handed weapon's defense be raised so we can actually use them with an array of monsters? and the really hard monsters' attacks would be spread to all the people that are attacking it so that no 1 person takes all the hits?

It would be possible to modify the monsters defense as you stated.

it would be possible to do something like:
1/2 of he deamons are just like now.
1/4 of hte demons are resistant to magic
1/4 of the demons are resistant to physical attacks

Not sure if htis is wanted, but it is possible.

When you say resistant do you mean they are completely invulnerable to those things or only less vulnerable than usual?

Resistant as in just a lot more resistant than normal or completely invulnerable?

Edit: Great, Niniane beat me to it.

Anyhow I think you could increase a lot the range of magic resistance and constitution or parry that every random demon could have, but I don't think they should be completely invulnerable to either.

Ich bin lediglich dagegen, dass immer über die Erhöhung der Monsterstärke (nenn ich jetzt mal so) diskutiert wird, nur weil einige meinen ihr können so weit zu puschen, dass sie sofort alles im den Höhlen erledigen können.
Mein Char ist weder Kämpfer noch ein Abenteurer. Ich möchte lediglich den Trend aufhalten, der sich hier anbahnt.
Denn die Kluft zwischen den normal Lebenden und den Skill-pushern wird immer größer.
Werden die Monster stärker, so werden solche Spieler immer wieder ihre skills erhöhen, bis sie sie zur Strecke bringen.

Mal ne Formel dafür:

Giandor/Mumie =1/3 (Stärke)
Giandor/KriegerX =1/15

wenn jetzt aber die Monster erhöht werden:

Giandor/Mumie =1/10
Giandor/KriegerX =1/15

bis natürlich der Krieger sich wieder anpasst und dann wieder die Monster erhöht werden usw.

Versteht das denn niemand?

Serp said:

1/4 of the demons are resistant to physical attacks

I don't like this, monsters can be hard enough to hit as they are. I think parry should be limited to a point whereby no-one (player or monster) are invunerable to hits. Everyone should hit their opponent at some point. Also groups of people should weaken someone's parry. So even if you do have maxed parry if two people are attacking you you are just as likely to hit the attackers, but you are less capable to defend. So groups of people can kill monsters quicker than individuals.

Well to me if this happened it would have to work the other way to. As in monsters in groups would aslo weaken parry. Like 3 flies could actually hurt someone whos half way decent.