Illarion.org

Today, we had our guild third building meeting to build our guildhall on the syrita estate. It's been just me and PO Malchus, but we try nonetheless to encourage others. Anyways, I paid Oxiana 6 months (120 Golds) for the Estate less than 6 RL weeks ago. When I last rented a room at the Hemp Necktie Tavern, and an apartment before that a while ago, the rentals were always understood as RL months.

Today I was informed it is really IG months. As hard as we worked these last few weeks collecting materials, building and encouraging others to join, this was the last straw and I got rather upset in messages to the GM who tried to collect more money for 6 IG months. only 6 RL weeks? Really?

WTF?? When did this change to IG months? That's not fair to only give players 3-4 days to come up with rents. It's hard to do without powergaming! There's not enough players to really earn that much so you have to sell to vendors at 10% value. You have to Powergame for 20 Golds in 3-4 days. Is that really what Illarion has devolved to? I might as well play Tibia, where powergaming is rampant I hear.

Well...I'm not paying for IG months. I have my doubts that the many absent players currently listed as renters pay IG rates either, when they never log in for months! I've been on almost every day for an IG year and haven't seen many of them. Where are all these people able to afford IG month rates? Who's the powergamers here? I suggest the Dev team re-evaluate this. This doesn't help the game IMO.

My character plays off as being rich, but in all honesty, he's poor. He buys stuff from others and sells very little. I powergame in the night hours because there's no-one to talk to, and still I can't afford 20 golds per IG month. Nah, not possible. As my wife says, "The Math aint Math'in" It just doesn't add up, and I'm a Math Teacher! I can do the Math.

In the meantime, our guild building has to stop, probably get dismantled. Such a shame. I'm really disappointed by this and want to shout, scream, punch the wall.....maybe even lead a IG revolt! This is ridiculous and it isn't what I spend hours of IG effort to create. I am really deciding hard if this game is worth playing anymore...I mean...Powergame vs RP? Absent leadership? Forums are mostly dead.
What's the point? This has really hurt me deeply, like a broken heart. Help me to understand.

Does anyone out there have anything to add or say about Rents IG? Please discuss.

It really is a short time – I admit that.
But:
1.) the big houses are probably (if I know it right) intended for guilds and circles. All members should contribute.

2.) This regulation has existed for many, many years. At least I can't remember that it was NOT IG months. I did return 2020 to Illarion.

Maybe the staff can think about changing or adjusting it a little to have more fun with RP and not just the need to powergame to own a house/Villa/Appartment.
But as I said - Aly as an example - paid her rent in Cadomyr every time for IG months, even though she was really anything but rich.
With Inara as a foster daughter, we shared that. It shouldn't be any different for a guild.

The rents have been per IG-month ever since the VBU released. As for the matter of prices, I agree with Yridia. The estates are mainly for guilds to promote cooperative work on a common project. Personally, I would have liked to work on such estate, too, while Kat was head of House Desert Fox, but I saw how unlikely it would be that the members would contribute accordingly and rejected the idea for the same reason.
In my experience, rent prices aren't set in stone, though, and there can be some adjustments to it. For example, Katharina would give all tenants of Cadomyr rent-free for Mas, so they'd effectively pay 15 months instead of 16. Or give discounts for people who ACTIVELY worked for the realm. If I remember correctly, Aly got a discount during her time as ambassador, as did Srrt during his time as designated town guard captain. So maybe it's worth to let your town leader know about the great value your char's guild has for the realm and how it should be supported accordingly. A lot of stuff can be changed by the players through IG actions. Of course, that takes a bit more effort than changing stuff ooc, but in my opinion and experience, it also feels more rewarding.

As a developer I don't have much or any say in how in game matters are handled, I can mostly speak on the technical side of things.
The society committee( Estralis - Chairman, Slightly - Secretary, Capswick - Treasurer) are the final decision makers, not me. With Slightly as the gamemaster running the day-to-day of in game matters concerning things like rent.
Not to say I have no say in things, but any change I make does have to go through committee approval.

When did this change to IG months

The rent has always been per IG month, ever since the start of the VBU.
It has never changed, and when I implemented housing, I kept it so the rent duration is lowered by 1 at the start of each IG month.

When I last rented a room at the Hemp Necktie Tavern, and an apartment before that a while ago, the rentals were always understood as RL months.

If a GM or player leader has indicated otherwise in the past, they were simply not following the set guidelines.
I'm assuming a while ago in regards to the Hemp Necktie room was when we had more GMs, as Slightly has to my knowledge always followed the guidelines of IG monthly rent.

to only give players 3-4 days to come up with rents

I actually set the system to have 48 IG months (3 IG years, aka 1 IRL year) of rent as the maximum lease time.
Though if the ability to pay rent via the property deed is disabled, which can be the case if the GM or town leader prefers to do the transaction in person, it is up to them to dictate how far ahead a person can pay, up to the maximum of 48 IG months.
This limit of 48 makes it so that people can rent far ahead, but still have a reasonable time frame where the property will once more become available if they quit playing the game at some point.
This way you could have 40 months, 12 months or as little as 3 days left to extend your lease, so it'd be your self created problem if you end up in a situation where you are running out of time to pay rent.

1.) the big houses are probably (if I know it right) intended for guilds and circles. All members should contribute.

This was the intent when I put in the estates, yes.
While I did set the base prices as technically we needed some in place, those were based on existing prices listed on the forum for the rental agreements listed there.
The actual prices are variable, something that can be changed by GMs/Player-leaders of the realms based on the characters own preferences and IG matters.
The rent is an income for the realm funds, that the player leaders can use to fund realm events.
This means that a player leader is incentivized to negotiate lower rents with potential tenants if lots remain vacant, as a means to increase the funds they have for their events. After all, some rent is better than no rent.
Of course there are other incentives to negotiate lower rents, such as but not limited to your character proving to the town leader(s) be they GM-played or player-leader-played, that they are contributing to the realm and deserve lower rents as a result.

It's hard to do without powergaming!

I agree. I do think the high pricing encourages powergaming if taken at face value. Not something I _personally_ am in favour of.
I'd say your guild's best bet would be negotiating in game with the relevant town leaders for a price reduction.
But besides that, I do personally think 20 gold every 8 days is a bit excessive even if it is meant for a group to pay and is the price for those that do not negotiate the price or actively partake in RP to obtain a price reduction.

absent players currently listed as renters pay IG rates either

The lists found on the forum are not necessarily accurate.
If you look at the property deed of an individual property in game, it will tell you if a property is actually being rented and by whom.
Just because these players are not active now, does not mean they have not been in the past 3 IG years.
If they paid ahead for a whole real life year, they could still be listed for that reason despite not being active recently.
It is also possible they had reduced rent prices at the time due to negotiating well with the town leader.
Some who hold a town position even receive free lodging whilst they hold the position as a form of remuneration.
This is, after all, a roleplay game. I've designed the system in a way where it is as mold-able as possible by the town leaders so that any kinds of arrangements can be made based on what happens in roleplay.
The listed monthly fee is only a starting point, roleplay can influence it.

I can't afford 20 golds per IG month

You were never meant to reasonably afford the estates as an individual, even if I personally think 20 gold is excessive even as a starting point for the price.

Where are all these people able to afford IG month rates

Personally I have been there. I rarely played a character that rented a home for years, before I came to the conclusion that it was not worth renting for a character I played so seldomly and it was better to just leave the property available for characters that are played more.
Back then she haggled with Oxiana for a slightly cheaper rent, and then sold magical gems to afford the rent for years to come.
Of course if you have time to commit to contribute to the realm to deserve lower rent, you wouldn't have to sell your magical gems either to afford rent without resorting to PGing.
That was just the best option for me at the time as I did not want to powergame, nor did I have enough time to play her actively enough to make sufficient realm contributions through RP.

maybe even lead a IG revolt!

Then do that? What's stopping you?
Though perhaps less extreme IG measures can also be taken, as previously suggested.
Too many players these days are prone to just thinking everything is set in stone and nothing can be changed, or that they can only be changed by complaining OOC without even attempting IG measures first.
Most things can be changed through consistent RP effort, not just limited to but yes also including rental costs.

Maybe the staff can think about changing or adjusting it a little to have more fun with RP and not just the need to powergame to own a house/Villa/Appartment.

The prices are up to the town leaders. Not really a staff dictated thing (beyond Slightly being the one that sets the prices when there is no player leader for a realm, as well as ensuring there is nothing like OOC mixing where a player leader gives their OOC friends characters free homes or any kind of abuse of power like that).
In Cadomyr this was up until recently Katharina, where you can see the pricing is considerably cheaper compared to Galmair where Oxiana sets the prices. From what I can see, Cadomyr pricing is about one third of Galmair.
In Runewick I believe it has been the temporary council members that haven't yet earned the town leader rank who have been setting the prices in cooperation with the Archmage? I am not certain.
So whichever players prove themselves worthy and take up the mantles of town leaders next would be the ones setting the prices.

Thank you all for your input. I am delighted that this has sparked some conversation and answers. You've given me much to think about. Thank you.

Does anyone else have an opinion or advice?