Illarion.org

May I ask WHY the signatures are disabled? There is not much point in doing so. I ask this in another topic because the sticky is so oddly locked. I say oddly because no one bothered to explain why it was disabled in the first place... Please answer... I'd like to know.

The number of people who decide to put pictures in their signatures might have something to do with it... making the page loading time slow. But I really can't see any problem with 255 character text signatures.

Edit: I also believe that polls are disabled...

I want my signature back up! IT was the coolest. But i'll stop complaining...for now Does it have anything to do with the map editor forum?

I think its very good that the polls disabled, cuze now can noone ask in a poll if should play today Illarion...... yes such polls we had too

Nonsens polls make only work for the admin´s and mod´s.


Signature: Is too a luck for us! Now can noone test his avatar in his signature, and noone can write bullshit in it.


Maybe its now the time to think what the word "signature" means.

The bad thing is, that through some few people, who aren't able to use their signatures proper, all the other have now to suffer. *grummel*

I decided a lot of changes to the board (polls are disabled at most boards), signatures are disabled too. And I'm thinking about Avatars ...
More changes will come.

Remember for what the boards are.
Signatures have nothing to do with the post above in all/most cases.
If you have something important to tell then do it at the post not at the signature.

Maybe the pictures can be shut off.
And maybe you will request to the GM´s to get a signature.
Like the Account. Or the discussion about the picture.

Noooooo not the avatars there really good.

Another point of av's and why you should'nt get rid of them:the avatars give people an idea as to what you character is like.

Avatars and signatures should only in the Guild and Rpg board exist.(ingame forums)

Anywhere else they have no sense and nobody has use of it.
My opinion.

But I heard that it wouldn´t be easy to limit this only to individual forums?

If anything, delete the avatars instead of the signatures. On the contrary to what has been mentioned, I believe that signatures are definately Illarion related. Say if you had a nice quote in your signature, it tells others something about your character. There are some people who put totally off-topic stuff in it, but what's stopping them from putting that same stuff in their actual posts? It only comes down on the people who want that quote, forcing them to write it out every time they post.

Is it possible on these boards to only enable a signature and avatar to accounts in a certain usergroup? People who have proven that they will not abuse them would be granted admittance into that usergroup. Others will remain avatar-less and signature-less.

So in short, if you are going to remove unnecessary junk, remove avatars. (Sorry Boremeir, but it doesn't tell me much about your character to see a LOTR pic) Most times they are completely unrelated to Illarion, plus it greatly increases page loading time to have to load 10 avatars of about 5+ kb each.

My personal belief is that the signatures are quite important...
They tell you who a given character is, so you know who you are dealing with if you are initiated into a conversation on the forums...

Sure, all those empty quotes and other miscellany that has nothing to do with your character is pointless, but when the signature tells you who a person is, it sudenly becomes very useful...

As a counterpoint, I don't think that quotes are 'empty'. Any quote does tell you something about the character, even if it may seem unrelated. A quote like "everyone will die" gives a different message than "believe in yourself".

On the other hand, I believe the avatars are the meaningless things. Mishrack, you are a merchant, correct? You avatar tells me nothing other than you are a dwarf. My own avatar would only tell someone that I am/used to be a mage. So if anything, take away the avatars; they are the more pointless thing.

Concerning polls, does it really reduce work for the moderators? Now, if someone wants to run a poll, they must ask all participants to make a post out of their vote, and then there would be some posts to tell the current standings, etc. So in my mind, that's alot of useless posts added to the process.

I understand the site administrators concerns over the types of signatures that emerge and even the types of avatars that can be imported. I further realize that there may be issues surrounding bandwidth and storage limits that may have gone unmentioned.

To impart my own view, both of these items can be tools to help enhance the in board RPGing experience. In many ways boards are an extension of the game itself - especially the RPG forum. Most players receive their first real impression of the game in the margins of these boards. Therefore, upholding the standards set forth in the game becomes increasingly important.

In the game you (meaning your character) are at anytime three things: a digital image (the avatar you choose), your actions, and your voice (the on screen text). In the game, your actions and words distinguish you from your look a likes. On the boards, your words and avatar are the measure of your character. An avatar allows the opportunity for you to create (or have created) an image of yourself as you want to be seen. With that said, to limit avatars and signatures would only aid in stifling creativity on the boards.

Aragon said it best,

The bad thing is, that through some few people, who aren't able to use their signatures proper[ly], all the other[s] [now have] to suffer.

As long as board guidelines are in place, there should be no reason that players cannot be held to the same standards as in game. Those who choose not to comply, choose to accept their punishments.

Please don't remove the options for signatures and avatars. Please remove the problems.

To select those people who abuse it would be a long and ongoing task. I understand why they choose not to do it. That is why I think that the usergroups would be fair (if possible). Those that are known to abuse it would never be considered in the first place, eliminating work right there. Second, the upkeep is relatively simple.

Either way, I think that the ability to cusomize avatars should be removed, as more and more people are using very large avatars that are 10kb plus. For people who use dial-up, that is an extra 2-3 seconds of waiting before they can properly view the page. I realize that I do have an avatar, but I'll remove it if this is deemed an issue.

I didn't read all the posts because they are way too long, but my opinion is that neither the avatars nor signatures should go. They make the boards more fun and it is fun to find the best avatar and the best signature. Did this all spark from Salathe and Fooser arguing about whose avatar was better and all their BS?

@Astral I believe that avatars and signatures are good-for RPers. For example my avatar, depicts a female elf who is clearly stretching out a hand that emits a light. It is supposed to be a picture of a Priestess Healing someone...which defines me. Of course, I agree with you that signatures are needed and show a lot about the character that is talking...especially in the Roleplaying boards!
@Illarion Staff Would it be possible to have a "Board Account System". Through that people that have been issued an account and have been approved through the e-mail application system could get a "board account" as well. That way only approved RPers could be board members and post. All others would be "Guests". And of course the approved people with "Board Accounts" would be able to have an avatar and a signature...

I don't believe we should give the Illarion staff an even larger work load, just to give us our own private little community. It would be much simpler to collect a few more volunteer moderators who could keep and eye out for bad avatars and signatures on the boards. Only about 8 people make board accounts a day, and only about 2 a week pose real problems. If someone posts once with a bad signature or avatar it can be ignored.

The problem is that people change their avatars and signatures so often. Maybe only about two new members pose problems per week, but we have hundreds and hundreds of other members who may change their avatars and signatrues during that time.

The usergroup thing is somwhere along the lines of an account system, but without the applications and such. People start out with the option for avatars and signatures. If they abuse that, they get a warning from a moderator. A second time, they lose their signature/avatar until that moderator feels the sentence is served. Again, I still don't know if this is possible (Spinning the web as I go, probably to get knocked down anyways )

@Elaralith:
Yours is the exception to my statement
And a few others...

paul laffing wrote:They make the boards more fun and it is fun to find the best avatar and the best signature. Did this all spark from Salathe and Fooser arguing about whose avatar was better and all their BS?

This is in my opinion the reason, why they were enabbled.
Signatures and Avatars aren't a thing of fun making (like some few have done).
They are forced to give an impression about the role, which your character plays in Illarion.

@ Paul:
Your char is a darkclothed monk which always says no. Therefore it seems, that he is a bit crazy or boring ...
This is the impression, your Avatar gives about your char.
Is it right?

--Continued from other topic on the technic board, hopefully we can put everything here now--

If there are ten avatars of 10k on a page, that's already 100k for your internet to load. Pictures that are 80 x 100 really shouldn't be more than 5 or 6 anyways. You don't need *perfect* image quality in your avatars.

Anyways, if you can't describe your character with a picture in the game, why should you need to do so on the boards? Just write the "Blonde hair, almost white and a fresh, clear look to his face make Brendan Mason easy on the eye." in your signature should it be enabled again. Then you have a bit of consistency.

I belive that Avatars should stay, definately.
Signitures also ahve alot of good uses, however few ppl use them the way they should be.

Let us look at these 2 things used correctly. a Good avatar and a good signiture will give you an impression of teh person/char speakinh at a glance. Much like you do in realy life by seeing teh person and observing teh mannerisms (The avatar and Signitures, respectively)
It really adds a level of depth and "realism" to the whole experience, to ahve avatars. When I see a board full of avatars, I get a much more "personable" sense that makes it all seem more "real"... and that is what Role PLaying is about, isnt it? Making it all seem real.. not just for your characters but also for you, since you are your character, once removed of course.

Howeve,r the drawbacks have been mentioned... Bandwith and storage space. -- well even if you have 15,000 ppl with 10kb Avatars, that's still only 150 megs, so that isnt really a big thing in these days when you have 100GB Hard drives for 100$. -- And we only have about 1750 registered users right now... What is bad though is teh bandwith issue, I'm on 768k DSL so I dont have a problem, but ppl on Dailup may have a problem, thus 2 things should be:

1.) the 10kb rule STRICTLY enforced, in fact, I would propose it be lowered to 8kb since with a good compression method on a 100x100 pic in JPEG sdhould relaly only be able 5kb, and will have virtually no distortion. hell I';ve got a 200 x 250 version ofmy avatar and tis only 8kb.
So since we are limited in size, then lowering it a few KB shou;ldnt be a problem, it would weed out thsoe ididots that try to upload Bitmaps or something.

2.) an option to DISABLE avatars should be implemented. If you're limited on bandwith then why not simply turn of the avatars in your [profile? so you dont need to wait 60 secounds for a page to load. of course, you will lose a piece of teh game play experience.


Also, I propose you accaully increase the size limit a little. 80x80 is not nearly enough. Yes I know it was stated that you dont need your avatar to be perfect, however when I shrunk mine down to that siz,e it looked like crap and I couldnt see alot of the subleties in it that make the avatar what it is and protray my char. thus I have it where it is now, only a bit over the limit but nothing major and I can still get the point across which I wanted to make with it.


In closing, Avatars should DEFINATELY stay. if used properly, they are an extension of the Roleplaying experience and a part of the game, to eliminate them would be folly. It would counter the whole point of Illarion.
Signitures are ify, even though I've only been on the boards but a few days, I've seen to many ppl use them irresponsibly. I belive the user groups is a good idea. a user woudl start out iwth Sig & Avatar capabilities, however if he abused them, he would get knocked into a group which doesnt allow that. In theory this shouldnt be too hard todo, however I do not know how the board user system is designed.

Just whatever is done, I belive it owuld be a GRAVE mistake to eliminate avatars.

With 80x80, you should be able to go with GIF, it's small and doesn't distort the image (aside from 256 color palette). Then maybe people could put a transparent background instead of red or other ugly colors...

Anyways, I see your point about avatars being important in making the boards more personable, but I still believe the signature is more important. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but properly used signatures can be just as (if not more) effective than most people's avatars. Keyword: properly used.

But then improperly used avatars can be just as much of an annoyance. Like the 2 page topic on the technic board about the server being down that turned into a 10 page argument on who had the better avatars in just a few hours.

Another rule that should be set up about the avatars is NO ANIMATIONS! Displaying a still image is fine, but when it gets to the point where you have to look at 10 flashing animated avatars while you read posts, then that's absurd. Better to set the rules now than wait until it gets out of hand.

I don't think that we should have to choose which we perfer in the first place. If you can do the usergroup option, it's better than punishing all for the wrong-doings of a few. I don't find either the avatars or the signatures completely useless to the boards, so I see no reason to disable them all the sudden. Same goes with polls.

Dear Astral,
Poll´s are possible but only on the guild and rpg board.

A funny discussion - really. I hope people learned something about the proper using of signatures and avatars.

Soon or later (hmm, later) only players with an accepted account (ingame) got an account for the boards. All others are guests with no rights (polls etc.).
At this point avatars and signatures will be available for accepted players.

I think most people who post often here have an account as well. Unfortunately some of the ones who make stupid posts, signatures and avatars are also accepted players, and I think they know who they are.