Illarion.org

Adding a fourth faction has generally been considered a bad idea but given general feedback elsewhere it may not be such a bad idea. Adding a new location that allows for leeway in play styles could be a boon to the game. The general characteristics of the new faction could be something along the lines of:

• One GM NPC leader, no player leaders
• No engine bans
• Monthly gems would be given out at random from any of the six colors (rank would be capped at 3 because this is an advantage)
• If any player(s) attempt to control everything they get kicked out

A quick backstory could be made along the lines of: A wealthy, famous merchant runs a little town on the coast. He/she has done so many favors and controls so much trade that leaders elsewhere give him/her a pass for sometimes having shady folks in his/her town. The people there range from law abiding merchants and shipbuilders to fugitives and runaway slaves. Players could organize themselves as they see fit but with no official player leaders, the GM NPC is often "away" but returns when urgently needed.

The pros:

• With no engine bans players would have to cooperate to defend themselves.
• All play styles would be allowed, if some try to prevent that they could be kicked out at GM discretion.
• Allowing a small infusion of all six gem types here could make gem trade easier for those who have complained it's difficult to get certain types for various reasons.
• Less work would be required than adding a fully functional new faction. A lot of the work would be mapping (small town). Since the rank would be capped at 3 it'd only need probably one daily quest. I imagine a lot of the code could be recycled from other factions.
• Could add a new element to a stale geopolitical situation.
• Players who don't want to be bogged down by political simulation or passive-aggressive crap would have a place to go.
• Fugitives/shady chars would have a place to access depot/NPC/tools without fear of engine ban.

Cons:

• The usual response is "we don't have enough people to support this". But we don't really have enough to support three as it is so not much additional damage would be done.

As you can see it could be possible to alleviate numerous headaches ranging from what to do with outlaw access to resources to gem distribution.

~

Interesting idea. What tools do you see residing in such a faction, keeping in mind that the dev team likes to keep everything balanced.

Thanks

Uhuru wrote:Interesting idea. What tools do you see residing in such a faction, keeping in mind that the dev team likes to keep everything balanced.

Thanks

That would be the tricky part, I'm not sure. The wood/carpentry tools and maybe a couple more.

Fooser wrote:

Uhuru wrote:Interesting idea. What tools do you see residing in such a faction, keeping in mind that the dev team likes to keep everything balanced.

Thanks

That would be the tricky part, I'm not sure. The wood/carpentry tools and maybe a couple more.

Perhaps a cooking pot and one good sized farmland too? I don't know, it is tricky.

if its on said harbor like a seaport town. then maybe stuff related to that. wood/ carpentry to "repair boats" ((npc quest gathering boards)), fishing spots, tailoring for sail repair. cooking and brewing stuff related to a coastasl town. not sure about the farm land. since cady doesnt have farmland throwing another town with it i feel would unbalance that.

Azure Lynch wrote:if its on said harbor like a seaport town. then maybe stuff related to that. wood/ carpentry to "repair boats" ((npc quest gathering boards)), fishing spots, tailoring for sail repair. cooking and brewing stuff related to a coastasl town. not sure about the farm land. since cady doesnt have farmland throwing another town with it i feel would unbalance that.

Yes, I imagine carpentry, brewing, and fishing would be the big things. Maybe a couple smaller ones, like a smelter.

Azure Lynch wrote:if its on said harbor like a seaport town. then maybe stuff related to that. wood/ carpentry to "repair boats" ((npc quest gathering boards)), fishing spots, tailoring for sail repair. cooking and brewing stuff related to a coastasl town. not sure about the farm land. since cady doesnt have farmland throwing another town with it i feel would unbalance that.

Please keep in mind that not all towns can cook or brew. Not all towns have tailoring available. No matter what you do, "throwing another town with [some new tool will] unbalance that." Having a place to farm and cook and work wood seems logical to me. If people can't farm and eat, why would they go there? Fishing is fine, but without some way to cook the fish, that is only good for lizards.

Tailoring is fine in Fooser's scenario, but unless it is near sheep, it is entirely impractical.

Near fishing is fine, but no smoker should be included. Far too many people rely on fish to survive and this would encourage too many people to live in this location. For that same reason, it shouldn't be too close to fruit-bearing trees or bushes.

With that in mind, finding a location would be difficult. Unless your intention is to encourage everyone to move to the fourth faction?

Uhuru wrote: With that in mind, finding a location would be difficult. Unless your intention is to encourage everyone to move to the fourth faction?

Not necessarily, it could just be a small island off the coast of the current region, accessible by any of the docks.

Fooser wrote:

Uhuru wrote: With that in mind, finding a location would be difficult. Unless your intention is to encourage everyone to move to the fourth faction?

Not necessarily, it could just be a small island off the coast of the current region, accessible by any of the docks.

Hm, interesting idea. That would have to go to Evie to see if there is a spot available.

Uhuru wrote:
Please keep in mind that not all towns can cook or brew. Not all towns have tailoring available. No matter what you do, "throwing another town with [some new tool will] unbalance that." Having a place to farm and cook and work wood seems logical to me. If people can't farm and eat, why would they go there? Fishing is fine, but without some way to cook the fish, that is only good for lizards.

Tailoring is fine in Fooser's scenario, but unless it is near sheep, it is entirely impractical.

Near fishing is fine, but no smoker should be included. Far too many people rely on fish to survive and this would encourage too many people to live in this location. For that same reason, it shouldn't be too close to fruit-bearing trees or bushes.

With that in mind, finding a location would be difficult. Unless your intention is to encourage everyone to move to the fourth faction?

point 1 yeah this is true didnt thank about that was half asleep. hellbriar honestly thought i was dreaming about this post. lol

so here is an update on the idea.

main tools.
carpentry/wood
brewing

minor tools.
cooking pot
farmland
tailor
smelter/smithing

now just for some npc ideas to reach rank three

npc to bring boards to repair ships. cloth for repair sails. iron ignots to be forged for ancors or pins to hammer planks together. this one would be more like the daily quests/tasks.

of course an npc to make you run errands. and a rat npc.

Uhuru, I don't want to be unpleasant but why you want to make another farm-place? Actually it would be fourth. There exist my topic related to near whole idea I see here (except not being political matter) and I can change fundaments of that farmers guild if most players consider it's not playable. Please add your thoughts there. Actually we lack only depot.

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... =1&t=40852

and about guild-depots:

http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=9829

EDIT: To below -> For workers/crafters groups they can always create guilds within towns. I see currently no causes to form new groups/settlements which don't have rp background making them opponent to other towns. This kind of town should have own rp background explains why they can't live in other towns. Fooser should more refill his idea with rp background. There also exists one idea to move shady characters under Galmair. And our "evil" groups which we have are different to each other and can't live together in same place.

Some proposals may partially overlap due to different subject matter. It is up to the dev's and admins to decide whether to combine both, not use either, or use just one. Please keep this proposal related to the topic of Fourth Faction and ways of accomplishing that until approved or not.

Thank you.
Achae

All I see being spout around is that this is not possible to implement, when all thats needed is a backstory, a a couple npcs, depots, and tools at the harbors, really nothing more. The harbors can be the hub of this fourth faction. The npc leader can easily be Flynn the pirate, his only interest would be in ensuring money flows through the harbors and there'd be no focus on any sort of governmental or ruling body. His word rules the docks and the waters. He could come around to hire certain members of the faction for a purpose, say looking into disappearing goods, harmless smuggling, or organizing business stalls at the harbors or even protecting them.

Some tools, slight map adjustment, a donation tile, and some npcs.

This is a solid proposal for an outlaw faction, please look into this further.

The npcs and lack of proof readers and translators is a major issue right now. Many things get held up because of this. The rest of the stuff is a bit more managable, especially mapping.

I need something to do to fight boredom, if some backstory, proofreading and possibly npc help is needed I'll try.

Npcs are not needed, really (Actually most players don't notice they exist). Background create players with they rp. Look at Yewdale -> I did not ask for additional npcs, because in my opinion they are not needed. Such a place just need a work/craft to exist and depot. There exist idea to add depots to harbors also. But I doubt it's good idea to make free from towns politics place. Leader of smaller settlement should be player choosen by town leader (and not chosen for cadence but to end of playing). Npc leader is not needed. In the other hand you should start your politics in game first to create new settlement. Not on forum. I do it with Yewdale by months in game. Asking people, sending letters etc.

EDIT: But if you want to create new settlement independent from other towns. There you still should create society in game first and there start doing with taking over one place.

@karrock

The proposal isn't give players whatever they want where they want.

It's to create a fourth faction to give taxes to and with no ruling body. The player then is not restricted in their roleplay and can do whatever they want with essentially no consequences unless they are caught by the towns. The law in the wild west is the quickness of the draw and nothing else.

There's an entire map the devs have laid out to be discovered and explored, if everyone got every little bit of land they claimed "officially" there'd be no space on illarion. Making a fourth faction with some of the same benefits as the other three towns but with a focus on nothing brings alot of possibility. There are many harbors, criminals or other undesirables (assassins, theives, cultists, or even regular or particularly greedy merchants, mercenaries, endless possibilities...) can take their business to.

With factions there needs to be some consistency, an npc leader who occasionally comes on to give quests or do whatever gm leaders choose to do, with proper backstory, mapping and reason. A donation bin, and taxes as well as magic gem handouts. As Fooser explains in his proposal the max rank for this faction would be 3 instead of 9 because of the advantage with receiving gems of any type randomly (this makes this lesser faction seem desirable for trade and a decent way to balance the input of gems, for instance Cadomyrian and Galmairian gems are far more abundant in the game than runewick gems because of their lack of citizens in comparison)

We are not even remotely in a position to consider a fourth faction at this moment.The amount of work necessary to adjust the server and the scripts that all assume that there are three factions is not to be underestimated. If all you need is your own house, please refer to http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=9829

And I officially give up

Here only one thing is good -> adding random gems and treasure deposit to outlaws.

But mechanically settlement without any player background in rp is weak idea in my opinion.

I'm rather opposit to thinking that creating new settlements are making players data base lower and spreading players on map is bad.
I would say that settlements with one work and one craft, depot and maybe vendor (or short way to vendor in town) and good background with players rp are interesting ideas. Much more than wasting your time on writing about 4th faction. 4th faction would need huge work (maybe even additional gm) and would give nothing special in rp if it won't be based on players together rp with same background. Another place only for chatting and playing with mechanic (work, craft, killing monsters) is not needed actually.

I would only say that idea to take over one harbor is good. Put there one work and one craft and depot is what you should ask. You should focus on this idea rather.