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New Attribute Presets

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:29 pm
by Q-wert
Related to Estralis writing over here.

Numbers for presets more efficient than the current ones:

Original Proposal:(kinda outdated, check 'smoothed' version)

Code: Select all

[list]Knight: (maybe renamed 'Barbarian' ?)
[b]18[/b] Strength
[b]16[/b] Agility
[b]14[/b] Constitution
[list]Don't care Attributes:
[b]8[/b] Dexterity, Perception, Willpower
[b]6[/b] Intelligence, Essence[/list]

Rouge:
The name is misleading, as cool as playing a sneaky character might be, there is no support engine-wise.
Maybe scratch the preset.

Hunter
[b]18[/b] Perception
[b]16[/b] Strength
[b]14[/b] Agility
[b]8[/b] Constitution
[list]Don't care attributes:
[b]8[/b] Dexterity, Willpower
[b]6[/b] Intelligence, Essence[/list]

Worker
[b]18[/b] Constitution
[b]16[/b] Dexterity
[b]14[/b] Strength
[list]Don't care:
[b]8[/b] Agility, Perception, Willpower
[b]6[/b] Intelligence, Essence[/list]

Crafter
[b]18[/b] Dexterity
[b]16[/b] Constitution
[list]Don't care:
[b]10[/b] Strength, Intelligence
[b]8[/b] Agility, Perception, Willpower
[b]6[/b] Essence[/list]

Druid
[b]18[/b] Essence
[b]16[/b] Perception
[b]14[/b] Intelligence
[list]Don't care:
[b]8[/b] Willpower, Constitution, Dexterity
[b]6[/b] Strength, Agility[/list][/list]
'Smoothed' Proposal:
  • Barbarian
    (The big guy with the axe. Strong, quick, able to best almost anyone or anything in battle. But not all too bright and usually somewhat afraid of magic. In times of peace barbarians can prove skillful at farming, mining or any other hard labour.)
    18 Strength
    16 Agility
    14 Constitution
    • Don't care Attributes:
      8 Dexterity, Perception, Willpower
      6 Intelligence, Essence
    Archer
    (The man at arms dedicated to the bow. Can stand his own with a knive or axe for brief skirmishes, but does shine once he can take on enemies from safe distance. He usually prefers practice at arms to meddling with commoners work. It should be noted that treasure hunters tend to employ archers for their keen eye.)
    18 Perception
    16 Strength
    14 Agility
    8 Constitution
    • Don't care attributes:
      8 Dexterity, Willpower
      6 Intelligence, Essence
    Knight
    (The noble man at arms, not dirtying his hands with honourless ranged weapons or the work of commoners. Faithful and educated to a certain degree, maybe even able to wield the slightest of magic once that is implemented.)
    16 Strength
    14 Agility
    12 Constitution
    • Don't care Attributes:
      10 Willpower, Essence, Intelligence
      6 Perception, Dexterity

    Burgher
    (A craftsman able to stand up for his freedom, usually member of a militia or even part time adventurer. Burghers prefer to buy their raw materials for their craftsmanship instead of gathering them on their own.)
    16 Strength
    14 Agility
    14 Dexterity
    10 Constitution
    • Don't care attributes:
      8 Willpower, Perception, Intelligence
      6 Essence
    Worker
    16 Constitution
    14 Dexterity
    12 Strength
    • Don't care:
      10 Agility, Willpower, Perception
      6 Intelligence, Essence
    Crafter
    16 Dexterity
    14 Constitution
    12 Strength
    • Don't care:
      10 Intelligence, Willpower
      8 Perception, Agility
      6 Essence
    Alchemist
    16 Essence
    14 Perception
    14 Intelligence
    12 Constitution
    • Don't care:
      8 Willpower, Dexterity
      6 Strength, Agility

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:30 pm
by Mephistopheles
Druids definitly need perc but rest looks good for new presets.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:33 pm
by Q-wert
Thanks for the hint. Added perception for druids.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:43 pm
by Estralis Seborian
Does not look too bad, please also give the "don't care" values.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:23 pm
by Q-wert
Done. I am not too sure about the Druid, as I never played one. Rest should be good for the game as it is right now.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:15 pm
by GolfLima
Alchemists:
# dexterity: 8 :?:
# essence: 18 :?:

* collecting herbs (( :arrow: herblore ))
* mixing potions
* healing / medical aid

:arrow: may be dexterity should be increased to 11
:arrow: may be essence should be lowered to 15 (( 18 - may be for mages ))
:arrow: rest looks good for an alchemist

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:41 pm
by Estralis Seborian
With the exception of the crafter, no preset has a "normal" attribute with a value of 10 or 11. I fear these presets could result in very vulnerable characters when magic comes out.

Is a value of 18 really "needed" for primary attributes? I would rather go with 16-14-12 for important attributes to leave some points for attributes that might be important in the future. I *know* that a maxed build is "most competitive", but this is not the goal of the presets.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:27 pm
by GolfLima
Question:

Why do need
workers // crafters // knights // hunters
essence?

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:13 pm
by Jupiter
Drop the word "druid", please. Use "alchemist".

Since alchemists need to collect herbs, the herblore lead attribute should also be considered. But that doesn't nee to be too high.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:43 pm
by Q-wert
Estralis Seborian wrote:Is a value of 18 really "needed" for primary attributes?
For pure melee fighters as the game is now, yes. An 18-16-14 does simply crush a 16-14-12 in combat. A 16-14-12 preset for fighters would basicly demand an (costly) attribute change to boost strength and agility if one ever wanted to be able to compete with a 'pure' fighter.

Most other 'classes' with the attributes not affecting the quality of the outcome, a max preset value of 16 should be allright (since +4 can be achieved with potions and the learning bonus stops at 20). I would propose the non-fighters to be smoothed towards 16-14-12. For the fighters, I'd give one preset as before add a few more versatile for other activities.

For the vulnerability against magic I have nothing to work with but vague descriptions. Pre-VBU the smoothed values would have worked fine in regards of magic.
GolfLima wrote:Question: Why do need workers // crafters // knights // hunters essence?
I have no clue. They seem to have needed it before, according to the old presets. If some dev told that it indeed was useless for non-mystic characters, that would be helpful and I'd adjust the builds accordingly.

---

For values, see 'Smoothed Proposal' at bottom of first post.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:31 am
by Uhuru
I believe a crafter will want a little higher strength to carry supplies to and from static tools.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:14 pm
by GolfLima
Q-wert wrote:'Smoothed' Proposal:

Worker
16 Constitution
14 Dexterity
12 Strength
Don't care:
10 Agility, Willpower
8 Perception
6 Intelligence, Essence
:arrow: pleasee check
only 82 instead of 84 summary points

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:52 pm
by Q-wert
GolfLima wrote: :arrow: pleasee check
only 82 instead of 84 summary points
That had indeed 2 points missing, corrected now.

Crafter got a little more Strength.

Further notes, rotten tomatoes?
Maybe an official word on if non-mystic characters need Essence at all?

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:13 am
by Vern Kron
For the crafter, I would drop the constitution one and increase dex by one, so it is 15 15.

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:13 am
by Estralis Seborian
OK, here comes my proposal, taking into account vilarions input from the chat. The builds should be competitive without having serious weaknesses:
  • Barbarian (brute fighter, tank)
    • 18: CON
      16: STR
      14: AGI
      10: DEX
      8: PER
      8: ESS
      6: WIL
      4: INT
  • Knight (damage dealer, melee)
    • 18: STR
      16: AGI
      14: CON
      10: DEX
      8: INT
      8: WIL
      6: PER
      4: ESS
  • Rogue (swift fighter)
    • 18: AGI
      16: STR
      14: DEX
      10: CON
      8: PER
      8: ESS
      6: INT
      4: WIL
  • Archer (distance fighter)
    • 18: PER
      16: STR
      14: AGI
      10: CON
      8: DEX
      8: WIL
      6: INT
      4: ESS
  • Crafter (smith, carpenter,...)
    • 18: DEX
      16: STR
      14: CON
      10: PER
      8: INT
      8: AGI
      6: ESS
      4: WIL
  • Worker (miner, digger,...)
    • 18: CON
      16: STR
      14: DEX
      10: PER
      8: AGI
      8: ESS
      6: INT
      4: WIL
  • Alchemist
    • 18: PER
      16: ESS
      14: INT
      10: WIL
      8: CON
      8: DEX
      6: STR
      4: AGI
  • Ranger (half archer, half alchemist)
    • 18: PER
      16: STR
      14: AGI
      10: ESS
      8: CON
      8: DEX
      6: INT
      4: WIL
Not to be released yet but for future reference:
  • Priest
    • 18: WIL
      16: ESS
      14: INT
      10: PER
      8: CON
      8: STR
      6: DEX
      4: AGI
  • Paladin (half fighter, half priest)
    • 18: STR
      16: WIL
      14: ESS
      10: CON
      8: AGI
      8: INT
      6: DEX
      4: PER
  • Magician
    • 18: INT
      16: ESS
      14: WIL
      10: PER
      8: DEX
      8: AGI
      6: CON
      4: STR
  • Battlemage (half fighter, half mage)
    • 18: STR
      16: INT
      14: ESS
      10: CON
      8: WIL
      8: AGI
      6: PER
      4: DEX

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:09 pm
by Q-wert
Looks good to me. :)

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:55 pm
by GolfLima
hm...

only
mages // battlemages,
alchemists // druids &
priests
have INT above average

the "REST" have INT below average .... :shock:

Re: New Attribute Presets

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:52 pm
by Estralis Seborian
Well, yes, sadly, most builds have no use for INT. What preset would you change and how?