Illarion.org

I know there are many of us who have stock piles of goods to sell but there is no demand for them currently in town. Even Eliza does not buy all goods, which I do think is a great idea to force player interactions. However, when the merchant or producer has produced so many goods and is unable to sell them, many begin to look to a new trade and this leads to many Master of ALL Trades which in turn reduces player interaction. So I think it would be advantageous if there were to be one more NPC placed at a far corner of the illarion map (preferably in the Southern End away from the two monster caves where insides could be gathered) near a dock. This NPC could be a trades person for the nearby islands or other lands. All items could be sold to this NPC but at a very low price. In this way player interaction would still be the best means of generating trade and wealth but as a last resort, when times were bad and trade was not possible in illarion, items could be taken to this NPC as a last resort. Maybe buying all items for half of the price sold in the shop by the human as well as half the price paid by Eliza. And it goes without saying that there should be NO depots in the vicinity to make this trade option a true last resort.

If this was suggested in the past then I am very sorry for bringing it up once again but the idea came to me a few nights ago while reading Elaralith's post about the tailoring trade and how to improve this. I think it would be a great improvement if tailors were able to sell excess string, balls of wool, cloth and those items (I list them all under tailoring because that is where they are now and not where they would be under her system, which I endorse whole heartedly) to a distant trader and not one so close to town, to as mentioned before, force player interaction first and selling to NPCs as a last resort.

The problem is, how much is a ball of yarn worth?

A finished product, a pair of pants, is bought for 4 gold by Eliza. A cloak is bought for 2 gold by eliza.

Lets take the pair of pants, this is made up of cloth and thread. The thread can be bought from the seller for 2 gold. This leaves the cloth having a maximum value of 2 gold.

To make cloth you must gather wool, spin it, then make it into cloth.

And the cloth really isn't worth anything at this time until made into a usuable item.

Right now we don't have anything less than 1 gold coin to sell anything for.

Perhaps, in the future, we will have silver coins. Perhaps then things can be bought for less.

Until then, however, a price can not be put on such items.

Or copper coins, concidering how rare and valuable silver is

What if it would take 5 balls of yarn to receive one gold coin. If a wind potion must be used on 10 arrows then could a similar thing not be inerted where it would take 5 or 10 pieces of string or any other item to receive one gold coin? This would in effect serve as a copper coin until one could be created later.

Why not just raise the prices of things accordingly..why have silver and copper coins? altho a nice little game extra. Theres realy no need.

Tailoring is a worthles trade at the moment. Nobody wears cloths only armour. Shop prices are measly for the effort to produce cloths so why bother, unles its you chars roleplaying background even then you will most likely need another trade skill to live of, thats why you can count all the tailors on one hand.

So how could it be made better?

You cant make everybody wear colthes instead of armour its not practical.
Raising Ealies buying price for items..that will help...but, if you realy want it to balance it out a treat, make it so armour needs cloth to be worn.
Armour was never worn on bare skin. Some were lined with cloth others worn over a garment.

Blacksmith makes plate armour/mail - tailor makes lining for armour/mail undershirt. Both items bought by a player and combined then worn.
You might say 'yeh but then all tailors will do is make them.' But then every trade skill has its bread and butter work. Besides carpenter dont make chests all day same as smiths dont make daggers.

No if that dont make sence to you....well I wont say.

What if the far away trader had different prices? Then you could buy stuff from one take to the other and sell, buy other stuff form him and take back and sell etc, then you could make a trade route and create another profession, trader.

Guingalan, (Still deleted, why?)

Because that would take away the player interaction. The trader on the dock would buy for a very low price and not sell anything, of if they did it should be at an extremely high rate. Just incase there were no other players on at the time you needed an item, possibly double what SMACC recomends for selling, and half of what Eliza pays for buying (or half of what the man sells things for.)

@Separdum Why not for now just raise all tailored items price when Eliza buys them? Then balls of yarn, wool etc would be sellable. Personally I think that 1 wool in illarion should be worth 1 gold at least as 1 fish is worth the same. And fish is I think worth less than wool though perhaps 1 fish in illarion reckoning is 1 kg of fish I dont know but then that would make 1 wool also 1 kg of wool.
@ Niniane I think having a distant trader would be nice. A proposal I would like to make would be having Eliza and the "distant trader's" prices for items made by players fluctuate just like it does in the real world. So in one day one fish may be sold to Eliza for 1g and the next 2 g and for the distant trader 2 g and then 1 g. This I think brings some competition to rish old Eliza
@Drathe Excuse me? Tailoring is a useless craft? I am a master tailor and it is my main craft profession. You insult me! As for noone wears cloth? I for one wear only cloths and so that in itself makes your statement untrue. I am sure there are many mages, healers, priests etc out there that wear cloths as well. I agree with you on just raising prices accordingly though at least at present as that would be the easiest route to take. Other forms of currency would be very nice in the future though.

When Drathe said that Tailoring is a worthless trade I think he was just trying to emphasize that you can't make a decent profit from being a tailor, just like you and I have been trying to say lately.

I don't like the idea of inflation that would bring into the game, Elarlith.

There is current discussion about currency and the fact that we need more than gold coins and silver ingots.

Again, still in drafting stages, but it would be more realistic to sell a fish for 1 silver than 1 gold.

And, go to your local Yarn Barn and see how much a ball of yarn is. Then go to your local grocery and see how much a fish is.

You should find the fish to be much more expensive.

As we have it now there is very very little chance of role playing a weaver or a fuller. The only way to do this would be to make cloth items necessary or to be able to sell to some form of NPC, preferably selling to other players as well as the NPC's (for a reduced market value). Also, on an island (which is surrounded by water) that is covered in rivers which are all full of fish, the price of fish would be reduced to that of an inland community. Supply and demand dictates that wool would be comparatively higher on and island that has only 3 sheep than fish when fish can be caught readily. This is not to say wool is more valuable than fish, but there is more of a demand for that which is in the least supply, in this case, wool. So woolen items would be close to the value of fish on this island community.

I think that you are looking at this as if it were modern times. A fish might have been easy to catch in the medieval period, but clothe took skill to make. If you study this period, you will see that most citizens had very little clothes. There was no "supermarket or clothesbarn or whatever". There was what people bought off their neighbors and what people made. Think about it: Pretend you were from outerspace, you landed on earth, and were being taught different skills. Would it be easier to learn how to tailor, or to fish?
But back to the main subject: I don't really like the idea of a merchant far away. What i think is a good idea is a travelling merchant who has very good prices, but ,obviously , travels. That would be a good idea and i have seen it in other games.

(BTW Niniane, i like your pic. Who is it? )

I don't think that you can try to make too many comparasons like this. There are too many imbalances between items in terms of price, the demand which is exclusive to the world of Illarion, and the time it takes to produce them. A master fisherman in Illarion can produce a fish in a few seconds.

Remember, in another thread I hinted that there would be changes coming up that would make cloth/leather items more desirable by players.

Elaralith why are you insulted....why take it personaly? You said tailoring is your main craft, meaning you have other...and these others pay for everything that tailoring cant I bet? (which would be mosat things.)

Im not trying to 'insult' anybody, (tho some people do take things way to personaly, you would think they 'were' their character.) Nor am I saying its a load of rubish I am mearly addressing an isuse. Which if you are a tailor would make things better for you so why go against it?

@Separdum Perhaps you are right about inflation...But I totally disagre about fish costing more than a ball of yarn. A fish is a raw item while a ball of yarn is a manufactured one. Following my system, a ball of yarn would be even more valuable as spinning etc would be skills. All you need to do to get a fish is to have a rod and some skill. Where I live a ball of yarn costs more than a fish which you can just buy at a supermarket. I agree with you about lowering the prices for such items as fish when and if a new currency like copper comes into use. I am glad to hear that changes will be made to cloth/leather items to make them more desirable. Perhaps the same can be done for baked items.
@Niniane Good point...
@paul laffing Exactly why I think a ball of yarn is and should cost more than a fish.
@Drathe You are wrong. All the money I make is from tailoring. The only other side craft which I do -baking - is not for the purpose of making money. I bake to have bread to give to sick people who need it to recover their health. I was insulted because you basically said tailoring is a useless craft which noone does.

it is usless..tell me how it is not. Only a few people wear clothes apposed to armour. So unless you constantly sell to the shop keeper for very little pay its usless.

Tailoring isn't worthless, why I myself have made ingots from selling leather clothes and armour!

ok it is not usless....lets be politicaly corect and call it 'usfuly challenged'

Blacksmithing- makes almost all armour and weapons (good for you, me and anyone. Illarions number one selling trade I would guess)

Mining - always good to sell to a smith (tho most smiths are miners)

Carpentry - bows and arrows ...anybody who dont use a sword uses one of these or a wand. Plus a few Instruments for a town busking or a party.

Luberjaking - good to sell to the carpenter, they almost always buy. (Tho most carpenters are lumber jacks.)

Baker - Makes nice food...probably a hard trade to be in, but people do usaly buy a cake or two especialy at a camp fire. Always good for partys and events.

Herblore and potion making - always in demand 24 -7

Tailoring - well the clothes that 'you' wear do any wizards honestly not wear armour (at least leather) and wear clothes cept maybe..Dyluck.
other wise its all to the shop owner to sell it all for a poor show of coins.

I have nothing against Tailoring (its a great game trade) just that at the moment its hardly profitable and the player inteaction with it is.....poor.

I think that tailoring is great for roleplaying. In fact, if any tailors could contact me, i would be most grateful. I need clothes for a king role ( getting ready for halloween )

@paul laffing Greetings to you my would-be "king"!
I am a master tailor and would be happy to outfit you with any clothes you may have. From elegant robes to sturdy boots I have them all. You may easily find me in Trollsbane usually praying.

Elara bless!

Elarith: Food is a necessity. Cloth is a luxury. That is why if you go to actually buy yarn and fish, you will see that, in fact, fish costs more.

Think about it also, fishing was somethign that peole did that took a lot fo time, they had to be out in the weather, sometimes it was dangerous in a boat, etc... Making yarn you get it sit at home and make it.

@Separdum I am sorry, but I think what you just said there makes no sense at all. You said fish is a necessity and cloth is a luxury. Necessities are almost always cheaper than luxuries. The meaning of a "necessity" is something that is very basic that is needed like bread. Luxury is something that is usually expensive and is not needed and is bought by the wealthy. I know the prices at the supermarket and yarn does actually cost more than fish. I have thought about it and heres my response: fishing was something that peasants did (yes I agree often times dangerously)for a living which they sold cheaply to those higher up. Making yarn was something those craftsman status did for a living and sold for a fairly good price to make a profit.

@Separdum I have noticed you call me Elarith for some time now... , but my name is actually "Elaralith". Just thought I would let you know.