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Out of curiosity, what is the range of a bow? I just started playing and the shortbow I began with has a range of only 3-4 paces. Am I doing something wrong?

I am waiting for a dev to speak for the final version however previously bow length had some to do with attribute but also some to do with skill. The better the skill the higher/longer the length. I am hoping that has improved with the VBU to encompass more of perception yet haven't tried it yet with a char that has some skill.

I revamped the fighting system but didn't touch distance weapons yet. I'll do that when I have time.

One thing that has changed, no longer need 10 arrows for a bunny, arrows are an effective weapon now. When you hit it counts. The monsters still charge though so you best have defensive skills too.

Juliana D'cheyne wrote:I am waiting for a dev to speak for the final version however previously bow length had some to do with attribute but also some to do with skill. The better the skill the higher/longer the length. I am hoping that has improved with the VBU to encompass more of perception yet haven't tried it yet with a char that has some skill.

14 dex, 16 pec starting character as a hunter (so 10 ranged weapons and a short bow)... only being able to shoot 4 spaces seems a pretty brutal limitation... especially considering the cost/investment that ammunition is.

I haven't edited the archery system at all and currently weapon range is based entirely on the item you're using, nothing to do with your skills or stats whatsoever, nor is accuracy.

I think it needs some perc check.

Again, I am not sure of this game.. in the previous game you could use slings and stones to practice. Costs much less then arrows. However, I have debated getting my character to do some carpentry also, that is where most of her coin has gone.

Posted the same time as Flux, thanks for the input, and I agree... perc check for sure. It is fairly frustrating to be able to see 8-10 tile or more and only shoot an arrow 4-5 max.

Flux wrote:I haven't edited the archery system at all and currently weapon range is based entirely on the item you're using, nothing to do with your skills or stats whatsoever, nor is accuracy.

I think it needs some perc check.

Please, no. Scaling the chance to hit is totally sufficient. Do not confuse players with varying ranges, depending on attributes. If we one day show the item values and the player reads "range 8" and the bow just shoots 5 tiles, well, that is really, really bad.

Estralis Seborian wrote:Please, no. Scaling the chance to hit is totally sufficient. Do not confuse players with varying ranges, depending on attributes. If we one day show the item values and the player reads "range 8" and the bow just shoots 5 tiles, well, that is really, really bad.

Why not set range to perception?

jmclark wrote:

Estralis Seborian wrote:Please, no. Scaling the chance to hit is totally sufficient. Do not confuse players with varying ranges, depending on attributes. If we one day show the item values and the player reads "range 8" and the bow just shoots 5 tiles, well, that is really, really bad.

Why not set range to perception?

Because your eyes don't pull the bow strings.
It should be a mixture of both str and per.

Str already controls damage.

I wasn't suggesting that we change the range with the perception, Estralis, I was suggesting that we make hit rate for archers depend on perception too (it already depends on distance).

Thargon wrote:Because your eyes don't pull the bow strings.
It should be a mixture of both str and per.

(I understand the game mechanics are an abstraction, but with that in mind)

With an actual bow (compound or traditional), your physical strength only matters as far as it means that you can draw the bow back to its proper draw length (and dexterity has next to nothing to do with firing a bow). If you were to give the same longbow to myself and to a bodybuilder and let us each fire an arrow, our relative strengths would have very little impact on the "damage" the arrow were to do. Overdrawing a bow is really bad for it and a good way to piss off your local fletcher.

I think the abstraction in the mechanics in this sense is (rather, should be) more about the effective range your character can shoot targets (rather then trying the English "rain of arrows" tactic of just firing arrows into the air), which is determined by how well s/he can visually track the target. Of course, another route would be just to adjust the hard-coded ranges of the bows and let perc determine accuracy (which I think is how things are set up currently), this might actually be the most "realistic" way of doing this as any bow of a particular draw weight/length will shoot a relatively consistent flat trajectory (assuming that the arrows are uniform).

Up or down, I still think that the range of a bow is quite short IG.

jmclark wrote:

Thargon wrote:Because your eyes don't pull the bow strings.
It should be a mixture of both str and per.

(I understand the game mechanics are an abstraction, but with that in mind)

With an actual bow (compound or traditional), your physical strength only matters as far as it means that you can draw the bow back to its proper draw length (and dexterity has next to nothing to do with firing a bow). If you were to give the same longbow to myself and to a bodybuilder and let us each fire an arrow, our relative strengths would have very little impact on the "damage" the arrow were to do. Overdrawing a bow is really bad for it and a good way to piss off your local fletcher.

I think the abstraction in the mechanics in this sense is (rather, should be) more about the effective range your character can shoot targets (rather then trying the English "rain of arrows" tactic of just firing arrows into the air), which is determined by how well s/he can visually track the target. Of course, another route would be just to adjust the hard-coded ranges of the bows and let perc determine accuracy (which I think is how things are set up currently), this might actually be the most "realistic" way of doing this as any bow of a particular draw weight/length will shoot a relatively consistent flat trajectory (assuming that the arrows are uniform).

Up or down, I still think that the range of a bow is quite short IG.

i didnt know that (sorry cant resist)

i always thought dexterity has an effect in firing bows or maybe whether the arrow will leave the bow

though i hope perception has an effect in ranged weapon combat accuracy and maybe effective range since it seems to be how sharp is your senses well actually hoping perception and dexterity would have some effect in general combat

given the explanations, why not...

Have minimum strength requirements for bow to successfully pull the string (varies with bow type)
Have bow and/or arrow stats for damage
Dexterity + Perception for target aiming, shooting and hitting the mark (would even increase damage since you can hit vital organs for better killing effect).

Just a thought.

hej

my char has a medium bow skill and I noticed the changes from the old client and the VBU. bows&arrows are stronger now, and its much easier to get arrows. Before it was a long work to make 250 arrows, in all about 1.5 to 2 hours. Today a char need 20-30 minutes to make 250 arrows (without the actual bag and map lags it will be faster).
I noticed a difference in the range and the power of the bows. The simple bows have a short range of 3-4 fields and they are not very strong. But beginners can shoot faster with them. A larger bow has more power and more range (how long is secret ), but beginners can not shoot fast with them. I think the new archer system is fairer and better. During the old client I trained a lot for nothing.

lg nathi

If dexterity counts for hitting with a bow and if not is based on how you define "Dexterity".

In real life, it means nimbleness of ones hands and fingers, sure. However what also matters in real life are how calm you can hold your hands, how precise you can move them and how good your eye-to-hand-coordination is. Some people always miss even if they have a 100%-ish eyesight.
Considering a role playing system, one always has to simplify. And the most widely spread simplification is counting all of the above to Dexterity. Most roleplayers will expect exactly that : Dexterity is good for archers and thieves.

Damien wrote:If dexterity counts for hitting with a bow and if not is based on how you define "Dexterity".

In real life, it means nimbleness of ones hands and fingers, sure. However what also matters in real life are how calm you can hold your hands, how precise you can move them and how good your eye-to-hand-coordination is. Some people always miss even if they have a 100%-ish eyesight.
Considering a role playing system, one always has to simplify. And the most widely spread simplification is counting all of the above to Dexterity. Most roleplayers will expect exactly that : Dexterity is good for archers and thieves.

Yes i agree.

i always consider or define dexterity as precise movement and probably hands- eye coordination never really thought it was speed