Illarion.org

In the last time it happend more and more often that players found it fun ingame to use their chars for chopping down and digging up roots by big parts of the woods to harm other groups or charakters ingame. That is okay so if it is in your chars background, but sadly it seems those players have chosen on purpose trees which can't be replanted by players at all currently.

Please...try not to do that. It is not very fair to cut and dig up trees which we can't regrow. Currently Vanima got a wide spot of dead trees laying around, and nothing we can do cause we can neither remove the trunks ourself, nor can we replant the lost trees. We have to ask for GM's to help us, and GM's surely have better to do then planting trees.

The missing ability to replant those trees and to remove the trunks is not an ingame function...it is actually a technical problem. Cutting those trees on purpose cause players can't regrow them yet is abusing a technical problem in your favour and for the disadvantage of other players. That is not really fair or nice gaming.
So if you have to cut down the woods of others, please focus on Trees which we can actually replant. Apple, cherry, conifer...we got many of those aswell.

This will be still a chance to roleplay such without giving quite a frustration to the players of those chars whose woods you have killed.

Thank you for your understanding.

technical problem

If there is a technical problem, could you give me (as PM or here or on Mantis) a description of it and the most convenient solution to it you can think of that can be achieved with little to no effort? I'm currently reviewing some scripts I would call "artifacts" and "relicts"; digging out trees is one of them, planting trees is another.

Other than that, I am pretty sure that GMs gladly will host any kind of ritual where a dozen of elves gather, pray to Oldra and spawn some trees. Just ask nicely .

Krazen hasn't chopped down any trees there...but so I know...which can't be replanted by players? Anything without fruit? Do branches grow trees? Or just apples?

Not replantable are Elder Oaks, Naldor trees, Cachdern trees. Well, those are the ones I can remember right now. So yes, the majority of Vanima is made by trees which we can't replant ourselfs :/

We just got rid of Pellandria.
Don't you start with this **** now.

Nalzaxx wrote:We just got rid of Pellandria.
Don't you start with this **** now.

I am finding it hard to work out who's side you're on.

Excuse me PO Nalzaxx...but I am pretty sure that I wrote this thread friendly and without flaming anyone. So I ask you to not start with it, thank you very much. As far as I know i am, as a player, allowed to mention topics like this. Just cause you dislike me personally doesn't mean that you should talk down every threat I write and claim that I have done something wrong.

This is merely not a post for me alone, but for all of Vanima. Aslong as those trees can't be planted by players it is pretty much frustrating when others abuse this fact and cut them all down and dig their roots out just to cause us troubles. so all I ask for is to focus on those trees which we players can actually replant.

thank you

I don't personally dislike you Patric, despite the history.
I dislike the way you are trying to influence ingame matters with OOC methods.
This thread reminds me of Pellandria's infamous Warlock thread is all.

If someone, ingame, is digging up trees in Vanima.
Why can't you keep that ingame?
Why does there have to be a topic on general about technical abuse?
Why can't it simply be that certain tree's only seed rarely.
Or they need special conditions to sprout.
Or some other INGAME reason that they can't be replanted?

But perhaps this is too simple and in keeping with the spirit of the game.
So you have to come on here, and scold people, and proclaim they are bad RPers.
THIS is what I dislike. Its what Pellandria did. And its what you are doing here.
I appreciate you spoke in a friendly tone, but it doesn't justify your behaviour.

Why can't you keep that ingame?

Mostly cause this is not at all an ingame matter. The trees don't sprout just rarely...they don't do so at all. So if a single player comes to Vanima and chops down 2 dozen trees you will have all them gone and just trunks left on the ground. And as a player you can do nothing else then asking a GM to help. and THERE it starts to get OOC, cause as soon as you have to involve GM's by asking them the whole matter is not 100 % ingame anymore. Also, if we have to ask GM's every few weeks to replant Vanima it will get on their nerves sooner or later too.

The reason I wrote this now is simple...those who cut the trees did so mainly with those trees we can't regrow. the cherry, conifer or apple trees weren't digged out. And this happened before too. Those who came to kill trees focused on those we can't plant ourselfs. So yes, this means a player used this fact to harm us more then he or she would do with removing plantable trees. And this is then not a only ingame matter anymore.

So its just some idiot griefing again. Yes those sort of players exist and you can't IG reason with them. I don't see what the problem is Nalzaxx, all he's asking is for a bit of consideration - he's not making claims about Warlords being druids which cast magic.

The trees don't sprout just rarely...they don't do so at all.

Okay, so these trees were planted by the Gods themselves, and need a divine touch to grow.
There you go. Ingame reason right there.

And as a player you can do nothing else then asking a GM to help. and THERE it starts to get OOC, cause as soon as you have to involve GM's by asking them the whole matter is not 100 % ingame anymore.

So basically.
It is ingame.
Untill you come along.
And make it OOC.
Which is what.
I want you to stop.

So yes, this means a player used this fact to harm us more then he or she would do with removing plantable trees.

Of course, you mean a character did this don't you.
And considering the Gods have ordained some trees can only grow with their wish.
This is a good move on the character's part.

so you want to say we have to accept the trees be gone. no asking of GM's to help and no possibility for us to plant them again. All we can do is mourn over a lost forrest and wait for the day someone resets the map? AKA Gods making trees grow again?

It doesnt sound very reasonable at all that so many trees in our world won't regrow themself or by human hands, but just by the gods caring themselfs for those to grow...

Are the trees they're cutting providing a wood they need for crafting? I wouldn't know, because I don't have an ingame carpenter, but surely there's more reason to it than to simply piss us off.

If nothing else, as Estralis says, a group of elves praying to the gods for trees sounds excellent.

No. Just the Naldor trees got wood, but The Cachdern got none at all, which is why the trunk stay laying on the ground in masses. So cutting Cachdern will have no other sense then killing the trees and with that harming the elven forrest.

The prayer part is a good and nice idea, sadly there is a problem. A single character has no problem going somewhere and dig up a few dozen trees. But gathering and planing a group of elves meeting regulary to pray for the trees to be growing again isn't as easy. So if peoples continue to chop down non plantable trees it means we will be busy with nothing else then planning prayers to have those trees regrown.

This won't be much fun anymore pretty soon

p.s. thank you Nalzaxx for using words like "stupid" describing this threat and with that also the original author.

Also, contacting a quester is no ingame matter. Since you write as the player to the quester it is an OOC question for ingame assistance. Which makes the whole matter not purely IC anymore

No, what I want is you to stop posting stupid threads like this.
And instead find ingame ways to deal the issues.
For example, contacting a quester as Estralis suggested.

I'm not suggesting you don't let the GM's be aware of these issues.
I'm suggesting you don't go about it by creating threads like this.
If then, they feel it is enough of an issue to warrent concern.
They will make the thread themselves.

And my divine touch is only an example of an ingame explaination.
I am not trying to make such a reason canon.

You can tell there is some strict GM left inside

-Matt

First, I agree completely with Shan on this. Please do not cut the trees on Tol Vanima, especially those that we cannot replant. We try to keep Tol Vanima looking as an Elven home, which means surrounded with trees. If we could, we would defend the forest at all times, but we cannot always be ig and everywhere.

I also agree with the po about starting this thread, because the woodcutting happens so often and sometimes at moments when none of us are ig, that we cannot reasonably rp it any more and it becomes an ooc matter. Please understand that the damage is easily done and needs a lot of time to repair (hours of mouse clicking and it still looks artificial because we cannot plant all kinds of trees). If you wish to rp damaging our forest, cut one tree in front of our noses or write about it in an rp thread, the effect is the same for the rp, but we do not have to spend so much time replanting the forest or asking GM's to help us.

Silo wrote:Are the trees they're cutting providing a wood they need for crafting? I wouldn't know, because I don't have an ingame carpenter, but surely there's more reason to it than to simply piss us off.

Everyone on Tol Vanima is asked to cut trees for woodcutting in the north east corner. Lhosseth often plants new apple, cherry and fir trees there for anyone who needs them for carpentry (I believe no others are needed). The rest of the forest should be left untouched.

Silo wrote:If nothing else, as Estralis says, a group of elves praying to the gods for trees sounds excellent.

Yes the forest can be replanted with GM help and some ritual, but as Shan pointed out, we would end up organising this every few weeks and it would pretty much take up all of our rp time. Plus every time the map is reset, all the new trees we planted in the mean time disappear, so it still means spending many days planting trees.

Okay I'm only going to have to suggest one thing after hearing a lot of complaints from players.

Please refrain from trying to influence other's opinions with your own, that counts for both trees, races, gods, roleplay of all these things, etc.

This game has progressed for years to become what it is today, if your opinions are different from everyone elses then, unfortunately, It is something to live with.

Hope all goes well and try to enjoy the game.

-Matt

Surely this is not such a big deal that you have to make a post OOC. I mean, if what bothers you is the fact that even if you can fix it via a GM-related prayer and people would just continue to chop them down, then just make that prayer render said trees invulnerable (via Oldra's will of course).

Sadly that will not be possible, I fear. This would mean that the map get changed and altered. But that is currently not possible due of the map problems the game experience. And I just started this thread since this was not the first time something like this happened. And since we got now empty places all over Vanima without the possibility to fill them again without GM help and holy rituals. Also, we don't really want to be forced to hold those rituals every few weeks. That will turn out ridiculous pretty fast.

The solution is pretty simply...just do not cut and dig up trees which can't be planted. there are plenty of apple, cherry and conifer trees left to be chopped by you. Not chopping the unplantable trees is simply a matter of fairness. And I do hope that we all can agree on such fairness. You will not lose anything not removing those special trees on Vanima, but you will help to avoid frustration for the elven players. That is actual a good thing, or not?

I am pretty sure the players of Trollsbane or other towns wouldnt like too if i start wildfires all over the places to destroy buildings, tools and similar. Imagine we could destroy chairs, tables and such. And imagine now I don't stop doing so secretly in trollsbane and you can't regain those chairs for now without the help of GM's. You wouldn't like that after the third or fourth time too.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote: I am pretty sure the players of Trollsbane or other towns wouldnt like too if i start wildfires all over the places to destroy buildings, tools and similar. Imagine we could destroy chairs, tables and such. And imagine now I don't stop doing so secretly in trollsbane and you can't regain those chairs for now without the help of GM's. You wouldn't like that after the third or fourth time too.

Well, me, being a human being on planet earth, would naturally not be affected by wildfires or tools being destroyed in a town in a game that my virtual character(s) live in. Maybe you should apply the same reasoning and enjoy the game.

You know what I meant with that

Alright, alright, the point is made, can we stop the bickering please?

Don't make me lock it! *Shakes fist*

If someone cut trees down, he or she needs it to work as carpernter.
So it´s logical that these people are villagers of tol vanima. Why should
a char come to vanima with a hatchet just to make sure to flaw the trees?
I dont think that this is a offense to the islands..it´s just a negative aftertaste.
And hm..there are more types of wood needed than appletrees or cherrietrees...

For myself, i planted trees on the islands long time ago..
There is a problem and it ever was..

Think about the easter island...the inhabitants cutted down all their
woods just for the gods and in the end there wasnt any wood at all.

Stop cutting the woods?

It cant be very difficult to import.

The trees dont get chopped for wood. They come to vanima, chop the tree, dig the root, and leave it behind, going to the next one. the only purpose is to remove all trees and they do that as an offense to the elfs.

And usually I wouldnt mind that ooc, cause thats an ingame thing. But the trees they focus on are those which the characters can't plant themselfs. This means we are not able to repair the done damage ourselfs and we have to rely on GM support for that. And that we can't due cause the trees don't have the technical possibility to be planted by player chars. so cutting those trees means not just an ingame offense...it also involves ooc cause we have ic not the possibilitys to redo what has been done.

Someone is guilty, after proven delinquency.

But if there is someone cutting trees on vanima
with pleasure to hurt the woods of elves , stop it.

It´s no RP, it just causes anger.

People in this thread are saying to deal with griefers ICly? Are you friggin' serious?

IC ?

Intelligence Community?

Yes im serious.

in character

Hu! Wanna state my point of view, too. (Not like my english roleplay would be any better at times.)
Duh, if someone picks his char and heads to Vanima with it to erase trees which are good for nothing but make it elven-looking and on top of all avoiding roleplay while doing so, that is quite ooc.
If it was about roleplay, that/theese person(s) would sit together with the po´s of the elves to determine a date or two where they could roleplay a situation where someone tries to chop trees, together (uh? what is that?).
I don´t really mind how Vanima does look, but such actions are like picking a moment when nobody is online and setting Bane at fire. Or running into Hellbriar when all their players sleep to make a map of it and selling it to the Bearers.