Illarion.org

Ermm... Question, I've asked a few people but I've got mixed messages...
Are me and my guild the good guys I know it sounds weird but someone please tell me XD

In my opinion, no.

The salkmaerian prince won trollsbane by following the rules of warfare. You are rebelling against the law, therefore you're chaotic/traitors.

You guys are like the red orchestra.

Not really. Especially not since you are siding with guys like Verdazar...that makes you for sure not the good guys

And actually, Salkamaer is the big good power in this world. All good, fighting evil, light civilization...and you are planning to getb rid of them...no, really not "good" *grins*

rakust dorenstkzul wrote:You guys are like the red orchestra.

You should hire them for your next communist party

Well i think it's in the eyes of the beholder. I'm like Robin Hood and what makes you think i side with Vedazar?

Not really...since prince john and the sheriff of nottingham were evil and corrupt...Salkamaer isnt ^.^

Well depends on how you see it. If someone came and claimed Tol would you not fight?

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:Not really...since prince john and the sheriff of nottingham were evil and corrupt...Salkamaer isnt ^.^

I'm tired of this, Prince John was not a bad guy, he had to raise taxes in order to fund King Richard's constant wars.

The sheriff was simply acting in tandem with the justice practices of the day.

I'm going with anything that keeps the entertainment flowing if that means being the "Bad" guy for a wee while so be it

I dont wanna be a bad guy

Alexander Knight wrote:I dont wanna be a bad guy

Man up you @#$%ing gary-stu!

*rubs some dirt in it*

Right... Come on... Take ya all on!

We may discuss the way Trollsbane was conquered, but the salkamaerian realm actually is the good force in this world. the prince may be not their most shining example, but he still means it good and has for sure some good karma points with the gods

Mind yous, there ALWAYS has been that wee group that fights a pretty lost cause be it town guards with bandits, town with demon that gets killed by a spoon or wee rebels going on about the "Good old days" there has to be that in the air for some folk, if I can get a laugh or two along the way, it's me pleasure

Like shooting spells at Udan and chasing him with a magical horde of mummies XD

I see your group as a group of chaotics who think they're doing good but the only thing they're really achieving is changing Will's locks to his own home without permission and generally bothering him.

AlexRose wrote:I see your group as a group of chaotics who think they're doing good but the only thing they're really achieving is changing Will's locks to his own home without permission and generally bothering him.

would it be worth it if we said you can have alex as the dramatic slave once we'r done?

AlexRose wrote:I see your group as a group of chaotics who think they're doing good but the only thing they're really achieving is changing Will's locks to his own home without permission and generally bothering him.

Well better than anyone having a key aint it?

Don't put too much thought in the feedback you receive here,
as long as you think you're playing a credible role, stick to it and don't question
whether others agree with you or not (be it IC or OOC).

If however you do realize by yourself (not only giving in to someone elses opinion) that you might play
something inconsistent / annoying / stupid then change accordingly.

Don't turn around by 180° now suddenly because you feel you receive bad feedback and want to play a likeable character instead,
you can't be on everyone's good side at once, take the word of someone who ought to know about that very well.

It depends entirely on how you define evil. Just because they share the same goals as the "Oh so evil temple" (Which really isn't anymore) doesn't make them evil too.

And just because one group has been set up to be "Good, light and dedicated to cleansing evil" and another has a history of "Being the bad guys" doesn't make the reality of the situation any more valid. Infact considering some recent events ingame it would be natural to conclude the Temple was more noble and righteous than Salkamaer and its allies.

The opinion of your characters is well and fine, but I find this OOC classing of one guild as the good guys and the other as the bad guys and the resultant behaviour towards each both as highly insulting, and infact, rather inaccurate.

neutral..caothic neutral.. and a bit..miss leading..

"The Guardians of the Alliance has been set up to stop the decay of ancient records and to fight for freedom against the Tyranny of social hierarchy, for we believe that we as people should not judge others for their creed, colour or looks but unite as one." ya diiig? and no..i do not need to explain why i think you are caothic neutral and missleading....and just laughing it of will not make it better.

Alexander Knight wrote:

AlexRose wrote:I see your group as a group of chaotics who think they're doing good but the only thing they're really achieving is changing Will's locks to his own home without permission and generally bothering him.

Well better than anyone having a key aint it?

Actually, as I see it "anyone" does have a key, since it's a bunch of people I don't even know walking around with keys. Before the only people who had keys were members of Caelum. Y'know, people who were actually trusted and donated funds and materials.. yeah those guys who are locked out now if they come back.

AlexRose wrote:Actually, as I see it "anyone" does have a key, since it's a bunch of people I don't even know walking around with keys. Before the only people who had keys were members of Caelum. Y'know, people who were actually trusted and donated funds and materials.. yeah those guys who are locked out now if they come back.

yeah, you should have asked first before changing the locks who ever that was

You and your Companion are Rebells. They fight for lordship over Trollsbane. Thats all. There's no Good and Evil. At such a conflict, each one thinks he is the good guy. And that makes it interesting, as well.

Good luck to challenge the migtiehst army in Illarion. (The Town wasn't conquered for nothing, lad o.0 )
Rincewind


Note: And Yes the Salkmarian ist the folk of the light.

There are certainly some very interesting perspectives in this thread. I am a little bit surprised at all the comments painting the situation as so black and white, though. As far as I have understood the current reality, the people of Troll's Bane did nothing to provoke this occupation by Salkamar, though I will admit I have no details of what led up to the battle that took place for control over the town. The way my character certainly sees it is a large nation exercising unnecessary control over an area that has been, as far as I have read, completely unaffiliated with Salkamar for years. I, as a player, understand that Salkamar is the apparent "land of the gods" type of nation, founded on the belief that theirs is a divine existence. And though I know (as a player reading the website) that the gods exist, my character has never been given a tangible reason to know this. In fact, I would think that the argument of "they are the light and all that is good" is invalid, considering that a vast majority of characters should not know this whether or not it is the underlying truth.

It simply does not make sense to me for a character to make an immediate mental assumption that Salkamar is somehow "god's land," especially when places like Albar lay equal claim that their origin is where the supposed throne of the gods once sat. An ignorant character that knows only Salkamar's history from Salkamar's history books might make this assumption, I suppose. Likewise, a religiously deluded/overzealous individual who claims to have seen the gods or hear the gods claim that Salkamar is all that is good and light may also think this way. But I suppose I do not know every detail, either. So disregard me if you wish, for I am just a noob.

Well, now that I have gone a bit long-winded allow me to sum up. Alexander Knight's group isn't evil, nor the bad guys, provided they aren't fighting to remove the Prince just to maliciously oppress the people for their own gain.

Deschiri Shayler wrote:There are certainly some very interesting perspectives in this thread. I am a little bit surprised at all the comments painting the situation as so black and white, though. As far as I have understood the current reality, the people of Troll's Bane did nothing to provoke this occupation by Salkamar, though I will admit I have no details of what led up to the battle that took place for control over the town. The way my character certainly sees it is a large nation exercising unnecessary control over an area that has been, as far as I have read, completely unaffiliated with Salkamar for years. I, as a player, understand that Salkamar is the apparent "land of the gods" type of nation, founded on the belief that theirs is a divine existence. And though I know (as a player reading the website) that the gods exist, my character has never been given a tangible reason to know this. In fact, I would think that the argument of "they are the light and all that is good" is invalid, considering that a vast majority of characters should not know this whether or not it is the underlying truth.

It simply does not make sense to me for a character to make an immediate mental assumption that Salkamar is somehow "god's land," especially when places like Albar lay equal claim that their origin is where the supposed throne of the gods once sat. An ignorant character that knows only Salkamar's history from Salkamar's history books might make this assumption, I suppose. Likewise, a religiously deluded/overzealous individual who claims to have seen the gods or hear the gods claim that Salkamar is all that is good and light may also think this way. But I suppose I do not know every detail, either. So disregard me if you wish, for I am just a noob.

Well, now that I have gone a bit long-winded allow me to sum up. Alexander Knight's group isn't evil, nor the bad guys, provided they aren't fighting to remove the Prince just to maliciously oppress the people for their own gain.

its not as much as the salks tink their the gods people but they are basically the "god guys" out of the mainland people, while salks don't have slavery their pals in albar thus who would you rather have over your head thats why most people don't mind I'd say.

And we don't want to rule over everyone, just want to get rid of one stupid little law...

If you ask me, there is no 'good' in the game at this point. There is just different senses of 'bad'.

I could take EVERY one of the cities, (that actually have citizens) and bring up points about what they've done wrong and how they are evil.

Personally, I consider both the rebels, and the Salkamar prince as Wrong.

And until I see actual 'proof' of blessings from the gods on the Prince, I won't believe he has any. I could easily say that my character has been very blessed, but due to recent happenings that wouldn't make sense at all. And I would LOVE to discuss this. But it seems like a very IG matter that I won't discuss TOO deeply here.

It used to be there was a very clear line between Good and Evil. But then you look at what the 'Good' does, and what the 'Evil' does, its almost exactly the same and as horrific. Such as: Temple compared to Fire Bearers. Nordmark compared to Magic Academy. Elves compared to Orcs.

I remember quite clearly that someone quite wise said that Illarion would enter a 'darker time' IG wise. And it -truely- has. Atleast on Gobiath. I mean, you have the Salkamar empire, which is using an Island as a little experiment to test their son, (Which is wise for the Salkamar empire, but oh wait... what happens if the Prince screws up? The island is screwed, and Salkamar goes on its merry little way. Seems kinda dark.) Then you have rebels, some planning on killing people, some planning on hiding, some planning on waiting, and goodness knows what else. And then you have the rest of the isle, who in almost all previous situations would come together and form as one side, suddenly is splintered and cracked. (Which is also 'evil') And in the end left Troll's Bane generally alone and doomed. (Which is evil as well and Zhambra would be all "FOR SHAME!" Of course, you could also plead that by not fighting Oldra would have been pleased. If you want to take that road.)

In the end, it comes down to one thing. Its not about it being Salkamar. Thats just a 'backdrop' for the situation, to quell attacks and rebellions. Its about people not being happy with how their home is being run. (Which hopefully could change)

Rebels who are successful are seen as heroes and good guys. Rebels who lose are seen as criminals. My suggestion is to forget alignments. Play your character as he would see right and wrong. That is what develops a character most. By sticking strictly to "Lawful Good" your character won't develop much further than that. The lawful good character would not be willing to let go of the thief child who was stealing bread. However, if you were to let the child go, or take the child in, that would be shifting to 'neutral'. Sticking directly to alignments can make the game stale and unchanging.

I've noticed certain crowds of people that hang out with eachother are in here. Some crowds seem to hate us, some don't know who we are, some are with us kind of.

Salkamarian are obviously invaders..and invaders are, as much as I know, always and to every time considered bad...were the british good as they invaded India, where the americans good as they sluagthered thousand of indians, where the american good as they invaded Vietnam, iraq and hell knows which land will follow?

I think the perspectiv of "Oh but they are a noble force" is misleading many people here, we just have to look at the way they bombarded Trollsbane and burned down the Seahorse, the hospital and even hit the libary and no the argument "you just shoot and hope you hit something" does not really count, as a warfaring nation as salkamarian is, they should know how to use their equipment.

So as artimer allready said there just seems to be bad people out there, salkamarian slaugthering and invading an island, other towns who, for what reason *cough* ooc influence*cough* suddendly stood down, while they always bended together for other conflicts and the rebells who just try to defend their homes, but wanting to archieve this with killing and any good cause is poisioned with a bad deed, so killing a tyrant might look good in one way, but are you any better than him, after all..you will be a murderer.

So yes I guess from all the people around the rebells might be the least bad ones, untill know they didn't do anything than band together and I guess we will see later one how logicly the salkamarians act, I think we allready saw that logic is not really the best attribut of the salkamarians..with all the comannder lossing and still acting like nothing happend..