Call for opinions: Lead attributes
Moderator: Gamemasters
- Estralis Seborian
- Posts: 12308
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Sir Postalot
- Contact:
Call for opinions: Lead attributes
Fellow Illarionites,
for evaluating a development project, I need to assign "lead attributes" to skills. Think of this lead attribute as the stat that boosts things like skill gain, rate of success, damage, quality of products,...
I need one attribute for each skill, not two and no "depends on...". I'd appreciate as many different opinions as possible, consensus is not necessary.
Example:
banning Willpower
pwning Essence
cheating Agility
Thanks in advance! Here is the list of skills I know, some might be useless:
language skills
baking
blacksmithing
carpentry
dying and tanning
fireing bricks
fishing
gemcutting
glass blowing
goldsmithing
herb lore
lumberjacking
mining
peasantry
smithing
stealing
tailoring
commotio
desicio
genese
magic resistance
pervestigatio
transformo
transfreto
library research
Stealth
traps
concussion weapons
distance weapons
dodge
parry
poisoning
puncture weapons
slashing weapons
tactics
wrestling
alchemy
flute
harp
horn
lute
for evaluating a development project, I need to assign "lead attributes" to skills. Think of this lead attribute as the stat that boosts things like skill gain, rate of success, damage, quality of products,...
I need one attribute for each skill, not two and no "depends on...". I'd appreciate as many different opinions as possible, consensus is not necessary.
Example:
banning Willpower
pwning Essence
cheating Agility
Thanks in advance! Here is the list of skills I know, some might be useless:
language skills
baking
blacksmithing
carpentry
dying and tanning
fireing bricks
fishing
gemcutting
glass blowing
goldsmithing
herb lore
lumberjacking
mining
peasantry
smithing
stealing
tailoring
commotio
desicio
genese
magic resistance
pervestigatio
transformo
transfreto
library research
Stealth
traps
concussion weapons
distance weapons
dodge
parry
poisoning
puncture weapons
slashing weapons
tactics
wrestling
alchemy
flute
harp
horn
lute
-
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:55 pm
language skills inteligence
all crafting skills need dexterity so dexterity, other are marked big
baking
blacksmithing
carpentry
dying and tanning
fireing bricks
fishing
gemcutting
glass blowing
goldsmithing
herb lore perception
lumberjacking
mining
peasantry
smithing
stealing agility
tailoring
commotio essence
desicio essence
genese ((Whats that?))
magic resistance willpower
pervestigatio essence
transformo essence
transfreto essence
library research inteligence
Stealth agility
traps dexterity
concussion weapons strength
distance weapons perception
dodge agility
parry agility
poisoning strength (maybe dexterity)
puncture weapons strength
slashing weapons strength
tactics inteligence
wrestling strenght
alchemy willpower
No idea on instruments
flute
harp
horn
lute
all crafting skills need dexterity so dexterity, other are marked big
baking
blacksmithing
carpentry
dying and tanning
fireing bricks
fishing
gemcutting
glass blowing
goldsmithing
herb lore perception
lumberjacking
mining
peasantry
smithing
stealing agility
tailoring
commotio essence
desicio essence
genese ((Whats that?))
magic resistance willpower
pervestigatio essence
transformo essence
transfreto essence
library research inteligence
Stealth agility
traps dexterity
concussion weapons strength
distance weapons perception
dodge agility
parry agility
poisoning strength (maybe dexterity)
puncture weapons strength
slashing weapons strength
tactics inteligence
wrestling strenght
alchemy willpower
No idea on instruments
flute
harp
horn
lute
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
language skills Intelligenz
baking :arrow: Wahrnemung
blacksmithing :arrow: Stärke
carpentry :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
dying and tanning :arrow: Wahrnemung
fireing bricks :arrow: Stärke
fishing :arrow: Willenskraft
gemcutting :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
glass blowing :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
goldsmithing :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
herb lore :arrow: Wahrnemung
lumberjacking :arrow: Stärke
mining :arrow: Stärke
peasantry :arrow: Ausdauer
smithing :arrow: Stärke
stealing :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
tailoring Geschicklichkeit
commotio :arrow: Essenz
desicio :arrow: Essenz
genese Essenz
magic resistance :arrow: Willenskraft
pervestigatio :arrow: Essenz
transformo :arrow: Essenz
transfreto Essenz
library research :arrow: Inelligenz
Stealth Wahrnemung
traps Intelligenz
concussion weapons Stärke
distance weapons Wahrnemung
dodge Schnelligkeit
parry Stärke
poisoning Ausdauer
puncture weapons Schnelligkeit
slashing weapons Stärke
tactics Intelligenz
wrestling Geschicklichkeit
alchemy Intelligenz
flute Geschicklichkeit
harp Geschicklichkeit
horn Willenskraft
lute Essenz (Barde) ; Geschicklichkeit
baking :arrow: Wahrnemung
blacksmithing :arrow: Stärke
carpentry :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
dying and tanning :arrow: Wahrnemung
fireing bricks :arrow: Stärke
fishing :arrow: Willenskraft
gemcutting :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
glass blowing :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
goldsmithing :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
herb lore :arrow: Wahrnemung
lumberjacking :arrow: Stärke
mining :arrow: Stärke
peasantry :arrow: Ausdauer
smithing :arrow: Stärke
stealing :arrow: Geschicklichkeit
tailoring Geschicklichkeit
commotio :arrow: Essenz
desicio :arrow: Essenz
genese Essenz
magic resistance :arrow: Willenskraft
pervestigatio :arrow: Essenz
transformo :arrow: Essenz
transfreto Essenz
library research :arrow: Inelligenz
Stealth Wahrnemung
traps Intelligenz
concussion weapons Stärke
distance weapons Wahrnemung
dodge Schnelligkeit
parry Stärke
poisoning Ausdauer
puncture weapons Schnelligkeit
slashing weapons Stärke
tactics Intelligenz
wrestling Geschicklichkeit
alchemy Intelligenz
flute Geschicklichkeit
harp Geschicklichkeit
horn Willenskraft
lute Essenz (Barde) ; Geschicklichkeit
Last edited by Triton on Thu May 28, 2009 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
Estralis Seborian wrote: language skills -> Int
baking -> Perc
blacksmithing -> dex
carpentry dex
dying and tanning dex
fireing bricks dex
fishing dex
gemcutting dex
glass blowing dex
goldsmithing dex
herb lore intel
lumberjacking strenght
mining strenght
peasantry const
smithing dex
stealing dex
tailoring dex
commotio intel
desicio intel
genese ?
magic resistance essence
pervestigatio intel
transformo intel
transfreto intel
library research intel
Stealth agility
traps dex
concussion weapons strenght
distance weapons perception
dodge agil
parry agil
poisoning perc
puncture weapons agil
slashing weapons agil
tactics intel
wrestling agil
alchemy intel
flute *murders* dex
harp dex
horn dex
lute dex
- Avalyon el'Hattarr
- Posts: 1492
- Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm
- Location: Heaven and Hell
- Contact:
language skills - int
baking - dex
blacksmithing - str
carpentry -dex
dying and tanning - dex
fireing bricks - dex
fishing - agil
gemcutting - dex
glass blowing - dex
goldsmithing - dex
herb lore - perc
lumberjacking - str
mining - str
peasantry - con
stealing - dex
tailoring - dex
commotio - int
desicio - will
genese - ?
magic resistance - ess
pervestigatio - int
transformo - will
transfreto - int
library research - int
Stealth - agi
traps - dex
concussion weapons - str
distance weapons - perc
dodge - agi
parry - agi
poisoning - int
puncture weapons - dex
slashing weapons - agi
tactics - int
wrestling - str
alchemy - int
flute - int
harp - int
horn - int
lute - int
baking - dex
blacksmithing - str
carpentry -dex
dying and tanning - dex
fireing bricks - dex
fishing - agil
gemcutting - dex
glass blowing - dex
goldsmithing - dex
herb lore - perc
lumberjacking - str
mining - str
peasantry - con
stealing - dex
tailoring - dex
commotio - int
desicio - will
genese - ?
magic resistance - ess
pervestigatio - int
transformo - will
transfreto - int
library research - int
Stealth - agi
traps - dex
concussion weapons - str
distance weapons - perc
dodge - agi
parry - agi
poisoning - int
puncture weapons - dex
slashing weapons - agi
tactics - int
wrestling - str
alchemy - int
flute - int
harp - int
horn - int
lute - int
- Mr. Cromwell
- Posts: 1876
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: All over the place.
Explanations:language skills -> Intelligence (1)
baking -> Dexterity (2)
blacksmithing -> Dexterity
carpentry -> Dexterity
dying and tanning -> Dexterity
fireing bricks -> Dexterity
fishing -> Dexterity
gemcutting -> Perception (4)
glass blowing -> Dexterity
goldsmithing -> Dexterity
herb lore -> Intelligence (3)
lumberjacking -> Strength (3)
mining -> Strength (3)
peasantry -> Constitution (3)
smithing -> Dexterity
stealing -> Dexterity
tailoring -> Dexterity
commotio - int (5)
desicio - will
genese - ?
magic resistance - ess
pervestigatio - ess
transformo - will
transfreto - int
library research intel
Stealth agility
traps dex
concussion weapons -> Strength (6)
distance weapons -> Perception
dodge -> Agility
parry -> Agility
poisoning -> Perception
puncture weapons -> Agility
slashing weapons -> Strength (7)
tactics -> Intelligence
wrestling: -> Constitution (8)
alchemy -> Intelligence
flute -> Dexterity
harp -> Dexterity
horn -> Constitution (9)
lute -> Dexterity
(1) A no-brainer.
(2) Dexterity should be with few exceptions, the crafting stat. In my eyes, it maybe should have nothing/very little to do with fighting. The exceptions come from the (3) primary sector (extraction of resources) and refining those resources (4), but all production of items should have dex as the stat.
(5) Went with avalyon's choices except for pervestigatio-> essence, because that makes it more balanced system without full reliance on int.
(6) With dex removed from fighting skills as the main stat, it is replaced by agility in puncture weapons. Because having dodge, parry, puncture and slashing all under agility would distort agility's importance hugely, I decided to swap slashing into strength (7). Tactics go for intelligence and (8) wrestling is determined by constitution, just for shits and giggles.
(9) Horn has very little to do with dexterity, probably more to do with having good lungs.
- Pellandria
- Posts: 2604
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:06 pm
- Location: Running around
- Contact:
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
language skills->int
baking Dex
blacksmithing :arrow: Dex
carpentry Dex
dying and tanning Dex
fireing bricks strength
fishing :arrow: perception
gemcutting Dex
glass blowing :arrow: Dex
goldsmithing :arrow: Dex
herb lore Perception
lumberjacking :arrow: Strength
mining :arrow: Strength
peasantry:arrow: Strength
smithing Dex
stealing :arrow: Dex
tailoring Dex
commotio Willpower
desicio :arrow: Essence
genese ?
magic resistance Willpower
pervestigatio Int
transformo Willpower
transfreto Willpower
library research Int
Stealth :arrow: Agility
traps Int
concussion weapons Strength
distance weapons Perception
dodge :arrow: Agility
parry :arrow: Agility
poisoning Dex
puncture weapons Dex
slashing weapons Strength
tactics :arrow: Agility
wrestling Strength
alchemy Int
flute Dex
harp Dex
horn Con
lute:arrow: Dex
lute
baking Dex
blacksmithing :arrow: Dex
carpentry Dex
dying and tanning Dex
fireing bricks strength
fishing :arrow: perception
gemcutting Dex
glass blowing :arrow: Dex
goldsmithing :arrow: Dex
herb lore Perception
lumberjacking :arrow: Strength
mining :arrow: Strength
peasantry:arrow: Strength
smithing Dex
stealing :arrow: Dex
tailoring Dex
commotio Willpower
desicio :arrow: Essence
genese ?
magic resistance Willpower
pervestigatio Int
transformo Willpower
transfreto Willpower
library research Int
Stealth :arrow: Agility
traps Int
concussion weapons Strength
distance weapons Perception
dodge :arrow: Agility
parry :arrow: Agility
poisoning Dex
puncture weapons Dex
slashing weapons Strength
tactics :arrow: Agility
wrestling Strength
alchemy Int
flute Dex
harp Dex
horn Con
lute:arrow: Dex
lute
Well... As I see it Dexterity should be part of fighting as well since I see it as the control of the body pretty much.
Agility is the speed, reflexes and if the person can go into split and so on.
Dexterity is how steady one is with the hands, the balance and the abilty to make the body to do whatever the person wants - nothing less, nothing more and should be important when fighting as well as I see it.
And the more attributes used when fighting - the better to make different styles of warriors as I see it. Dexterity should be important for pretty much all fighting as I see - but maybe not the main attribute.
This is the way I have been explained the attributes should work like anyhow and I agree with that.
Strength I think should mainly to be able to give more damage, lift more and carry heavier armor without problem. Also should be important when wrestling together with agility and dexterity.
Constitution should be important to resist poison and other kind of damages only pretty much together with the ability to recover of course. At least as I see it. Maybe even horn as you explained. =)
But this is how I look at it. Just remove dexterity from fighting would be a mistake as I see it and would only lead to big strong and quick warriors only and not the "weapon master" type with great control of what he is doing. Adding dexterity as I see it would make it possible to have berserk like warriors with not that much control of his actions but with great force and speed, the more defensive typ who fight kinda slow but defend and attack well with great precision, and also the type who can attack with great speed and control but with lack of force.
But this is my view of this of course.
Agility is the speed, reflexes and if the person can go into split and so on.
Dexterity is how steady one is with the hands, the balance and the abilty to make the body to do whatever the person wants - nothing less, nothing more and should be important when fighting as well as I see it.
And the more attributes used when fighting - the better to make different styles of warriors as I see it. Dexterity should be important for pretty much all fighting as I see - but maybe not the main attribute.
This is the way I have been explained the attributes should work like anyhow and I agree with that.
Strength I think should mainly to be able to give more damage, lift more and carry heavier armor without problem. Also should be important when wrestling together with agility and dexterity.
Constitution should be important to resist poison and other kind of damages only pretty much together with the ability to recover of course. At least as I see it. Maybe even horn as you explained. =)
But this is how I look at it. Just remove dexterity from fighting would be a mistake as I see it and would only lead to big strong and quick warriors only and not the "weapon master" type with great control of what he is doing. Adding dexterity as I see it would make it possible to have berserk like warriors with not that much control of his actions but with great force and speed, the more defensive typ who fight kinda slow but defend and attack well with great precision, and also the type who can attack with great speed and control but with lack of force.
But this is my view of this of course.
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
language skills Intelligence
baking Dexterity
blacksmithing Dex
carpentry Dex
dying and tanning dex
fireing bricks dex
fishing dex
gemcutting dex
glass blowing dex
goldsmithing dex
herb lore perception
lumberjacking strength
mining strength
peasantry essence
smithing dex
stealing dex
tailoring dex
commotio willpower
desicio willpower
genese ???
magic resistance essence
pervestigatio ???
library research int
Stealth agility
traps dex
concussion weapons stren
distance weapons percep
dodge agility
parry agility
poisoning agility
puncture weapons dex
slashing weapons stren
tactics int
wrestling agility
alchemy int
flute dex
harp dex
horn dex
lute dex[/quote]
baking Dexterity
blacksmithing Dex
carpentry Dex
dying and tanning dex
fireing bricks dex
fishing dex
gemcutting dex
glass blowing dex
goldsmithing dex
herb lore perception
lumberjacking strength
mining strength
peasantry essence
smithing dex
stealing dex
tailoring dex
commotio willpower
desicio willpower
genese ???
magic resistance essence
pervestigatio ???
library research int
Stealth agility
traps dex
concussion weapons stren
distance weapons percep
dodge agility
parry agility
poisoning agility
puncture weapons dex
slashing weapons stren
tactics int
wrestling agility
alchemy int
flute dex
harp dex
horn dex
lute dex[/quote]
language skills
baking - dexterity
blacksmithing - dexterity
carpentry - dexterity
dying and tanning - intelligence
fireing bricks - intelligence
fishing - intelligence
gemcutting - dexterity
glass blowing - dexterity
goldsmithing - dexterity
herb lore - perception
lumberjacking - strength
mining - strength
peasantry - constitution
smithing - dexterity
stealing - dexterity
tailoring - dexterity
commotio ?
desicio ?
genese ?
magic resistance - willpower
pervestigatio ?
transformo
transfreto
library research - intelligence
Stealth - dexterity
traps - intelligence
concussion weapons - agility
distance weapons - perception
dodge - agility
parry - agility
poisoning - dexterity
puncture weapons - dexterity
slashing weapons - agility
tactics - intelligence
wrestling - agility
alchemy - intelligence
flute - dexterity
harp - dexterity
horn - constitution
lute - dexterity
baking - dexterity
blacksmithing - dexterity
carpentry - dexterity
dying and tanning - intelligence
fireing bricks - intelligence
fishing - intelligence
gemcutting - dexterity
glass blowing - dexterity
goldsmithing - dexterity
herb lore - perception
lumberjacking - strength
mining - strength
peasantry - constitution
smithing - dexterity
stealing - dexterity
tailoring - dexterity
commotio ?
desicio ?
genese ?
magic resistance - willpower
pervestigatio ?
transformo
transfreto
library research - intelligence
Stealth - dexterity
traps - intelligence
concussion weapons - agility
distance weapons - perception
dodge - agility
parry - agility
poisoning - dexterity
puncture weapons - dexterity
slashing weapons - agility
tactics - intelligence
wrestling - agility
alchemy - intelligence
flute - dexterity
harp - dexterity
horn - constitution
lute - dexterity
- Mr. Cromwell
- Posts: 1876
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: All over the place.
Aha. Someone has a lot in dex I see.
No, my motivations with removing dex are simple:
Complaints regarding warriors who make their own stuff.
As it currently stands, dexterity does (AFAIK) affect fighting quite a bit, the scale depending on the weapons at use. This means, that a fighter has every incentive to invest stat-points into dex because this makes him a better fighter. As a direct consequence of this, the warriors also are able to make good quality stuff for themselves.
However;
If dexterity has no positive effect on the fighting skills, then the fighter has no direct incentive to increase his dex. In that case, increasing dex is a decision which diminishes his potential as an actual fighter due to the limited amount of statpoints availabel (and thus makes other fighters better than him, if they do not invest in dex). Thus, pure fighters will suck as craftsmen.
No, my motivations with removing dex are simple:
Complaints regarding warriors who make their own stuff.
As it currently stands, dexterity does (AFAIK) affect fighting quite a bit, the scale depending on the weapons at use. This means, that a fighter has every incentive to invest stat-points into dex because this makes him a better fighter. As a direct consequence of this, the warriors also are able to make good quality stuff for themselves.
However;
If dexterity has no positive effect on the fighting skills, then the fighter has no direct incentive to increase his dex. In that case, increasing dex is a decision which diminishes his potential as an actual fighter due to the limited amount of statpoints availabel (and thus makes other fighters better than him, if they do not invest in dex). Thus, pure fighters will suck as craftsmen.
Yes, I see your point - but I believe that problem should be solved in another way than making all warriors look the same. And my char have ok dexterity, but that is not the issue here. I hate when there is a set formula when it comes to something like fighting since those skills are used against other chars. Kinda boring if all good warriors look the same. =)Mr. Cromwell wrote:Aha. Someone has a lot in dex I see.
No, my motivations with removing dex are simple:
Complaints regarding warriors who make their own stuff.
As it currently stands, dexterity does (AFAIK) affect fighting quite a bit, the scale depending on the weapons at use. This means, that a fighter has every incentive to invest stat-points into dex because this makes him a better fighter. As a direct consequence of this, the warriors also are able to make good quality stuff for themselves.
However;
If dexterity has no positive effect on the fighting skills, then the fighter has no direct incentive to increase his dex. In that case, increasing dex is a decision which diminishes his potential as an actual fighter (and thus makes other fighters better than him, if they do not invest in dex). Thus, pure fighters will suck as craftsmen.
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
baking -> INT
blacksmithing -> STR
carpentry -> DEX
dying and tanning ->Agi
fireing bricks -> Con
fishing -> Perc
gemcutting ->Dex
glass blowing ->Dex
goldsmithing ->Dex
herb lore ->Perc
lumberjacking ->Con
mining ->Con
farming ->Con
smithing ->STR
stealing ->Agi
tailoring ->Dex
commotio
desicio
genese
magic resistance
pervestigatio
transformo
transfreto
library research
Stealth
traps
concussion weapons ->Str
distance weapons ->Dex
dodge ->Agi
parry ->Dex
poisoning
puncture weapons ->Agi
slashing weapons ->Agi
tactics ->INT
wrestling ->Con
alchemy
flute ->Con
harp ->Dex
horn ->Con
lute ->Dex
blacksmithing -> STR
carpentry -> DEX
dying and tanning ->Agi
fireing bricks -> Con
fishing -> Perc
gemcutting ->Dex
glass blowing ->Dex
goldsmithing ->Dex
herb lore ->Perc
lumberjacking ->Con
mining ->Con
farming ->Con
smithing ->STR
stealing ->Agi
tailoring ->Dex
commotio
desicio
genese
magic resistance
pervestigatio
transformo
transfreto
library research
Stealth
traps
concussion weapons ->Str
distance weapons ->Dex
dodge ->Agi
parry ->Dex
poisoning
puncture weapons ->Agi
slashing weapons ->Agi
tactics ->INT
wrestling ->Con
alchemy
flute ->Con
harp ->Dex
horn ->Con
lute ->Dex
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
baking Int
blacksmithing Str
carpentry Dex
dying and tanning Int
fireing bricks Con
fishing Perc
gemcutting Dex
glass blowing Dex
goldsmithing Dex
herb lore Perc
lumberjacking Con
mining Con
peasantry Perc
smithing Dex
stealing Agi
tailoring Dex
magic resistance ess
library research Int
Stealth ...
traps ...
concussion weapons Str
distance weapons Perc
dodge Agi
parry Con
poisoning ...
puncture weapons Agi
slashing weapons Con
tactics Int
wrestling Con
alchemy Ess
flute Con
harp Dex
horn Con
lute Dex
____________________________________________________________
The reason why I gave no fighting skill a "Dex" is that Dexterity is very often used for crafting, and fighters shouldn't have bonuses on crafting skills too.
Edit: Oh, just realized that Cromwell already pointed it out.
blacksmithing Str
carpentry Dex
dying and tanning Int
fireing bricks Con
fishing Perc
gemcutting Dex
glass blowing Dex
goldsmithing Dex
herb lore Perc
lumberjacking Con
mining Con
peasantry Perc
smithing Dex
stealing Agi
tailoring Dex
magic resistance ess
library research Int
Stealth ...
traps ...
concussion weapons Str
distance weapons Perc
dodge Agi
parry Con
poisoning ...
puncture weapons Agi
slashing weapons Con
tactics Int
wrestling Con
alchemy Ess
flute Con
harp Dex
horn Con
lute Dex
____________________________________________________________
The reason why I gave no fighting skill a "Dex" is that Dexterity is very often used for crafting, and fighters shouldn't have bonuses on crafting skills too.
Edit: Oh, just realized that Cromwell already pointed it out.
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
Just wonder... Why solve the problem in a way that makes all warrior look the same? I say one should be able to decide what kind of dexterity the person have - finger dexterity for crafting or, body dexterity and simply lower the one not chosen with X%. Would be a much better solution I say instead of making all warriors look the same.Eisenbein wrote:baking Int
blacksmithing Str
carpentry Dex
dying and tanning Int
fireing bricks Con
fishing Perc
gemcutting Dex
glass blowing Dex
goldsmithing Dex
herb lore Perc
lumberjacking Con
mining Con
peasantry Perc
smithing Dex
stealing Agi
tailoring Dex
magic resistance ess
library research Int
Stealth ...
traps ...
concussion weapons Str
distance weapons Perc
dodge Agi
parry Con
poisoning ...
puncture weapons Agi
slashing weapons Con
tactics Int
wrestling Con
alchemy Ess
flute Con
harp Dex
horn Con
lute Dex
____________________________________________________________
The reason why I gave no fighting skill a "Dex" is that Dexterity is very often used for crafting, and fighters shouldn't have bonuses on crafting skills too.
Edit: Oh, just realized that Cromwell already pointed it out.
- Achae Eanstray
- Posts: 4300
- Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:03 am
- Location: A field of dandelions
- Contact:
Well, that can be solved simply by making people able to change the attributes I guess, but I still think it is wrong solving a problem by creating a new problem.Achae Eanstray wrote:Changing the attributes on the professions now will be a big disadvantage to chars already made? Or am I misunderstanding?
But if not possible to change attributes then it will of course be a disadvantage for many chars if the leading attributes are changed.
- Mr. Cromwell
- Posts: 1876
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: All over the place.
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
Halt! Hammertime!Eisenbein wrote: blacksmithing Str
____________________________________________________________
The reason why I gave no fighting skill a "Dex" is that Dexterity is very often used for crafting, and fighters shouldn't have bonuses on crafting skills too.
Edit: Oh, just realized that Cromwell already pointed it out.
Stop and thing the bolded part for a moment? Would it not be incredibly crazy kaputtrepariering to remove dex from fighting and then change blacksmithing to.. str? The change in terms of fighter ability to craft stuff for themselves would be.. zero, right?
@Fighters looking the same
Well, that differentiation might be possible through items, even though a different (new) stat to represent either crafting dexterity or fighting dexterity might be good idea as well. Because these two have to be separated somehow. Perhaps a figther stat called "coordination" which assumes the effects of the fighting-dex and the current dex retains the crafting effects. Then an opportunity for people to change these stats..
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
Estralis Seborian wrote:
language skills-intel
baking- Dex
blacksmithing- Str
carpentry- Dex
dying and tanning- Int
fireing bricks- Dex
fishing- perc
gemcutting- Dex
glass blowing- Perc
goldsmithing- dex
herb lore- Perc
lumberjacking- Con
mining- Con
peasantry- Con
smithing- Dex
stealing- Agi
tailoring- Perc
commotio- willpower
desicio-Int
genese- ??
magic resistance- ess
pervestigatio- int
transformo- Ess
transfreto- Ess
library research- Int
Stealth- Agil
traps- Perc
concussion weapons- Str
distance weapons- Perc
dodge- Agi
parry- Agi
poisoning- Perc
puncture weapons- Agi
slashing weapons- Dex
tactics- int
wrestling- Con
alchemy- Int
flute - dex
harp - dex
horn -Perc
lute-Dex
@ Estralis
any changes made would just be giving slight boosts to leading stats toward some skills right?
Which would mean that the overall formula to how the skills work wouldn't be to different from what they are now, But some characters would merely become more effective at some skills, and other characters would get no worse at them but not recieve any particular bonus?
didn't know how to phrase it the way my brain wanted
Firstly, AFAIK, for many skills (fighting especially) the game takes into account multiple attributes in determining the characters effectiveness in that skill. I really like it that way, and it seems to me that this is asking for opinions on what single stat should determine effectiveness. If thats not the case and this is a survey to re-evaluate those multiple attributes, then ignore this disclaimer. But if skills are now getting one single attribute to define that skill... then see argument below.
language skills - int
baking -> dex
blacksmithing -> dex
carpentry -> dex
dying and tanning -> dex
fireing bricks -> dex
fishing -> dex
gemcutting -> dex
glass blowing -> dex
goldsmithing -> dex
herb lore -> dex
lumberjacking-> con
mining -> con
peasantry -> con
smithing ->dex
stealing ->dex
tailoring ->dex
library research -> int
Stealth -> agi
traps -> dex
concussion weapons -> str
distance weapons -> perc
dodge -> agi
parry -> dex
poisoning -> dex
puncture weapons -> dex
slashing weapons -> agi
tactics -> int
wrestling -> dex
alchemy -> Int
I'm indifferent about the dex argument, really....
though
If the staff decides ADD/REMOVE stats from fighting... AGAIN... players deserve another free stat change. It was BS enough that after about ~7 years of this game having absolutely no relation between int and fighting, they added int as a fighting stat (a very crucial one, at that). Now if after ~9 years of this game having a strong relation between dex and fighting... and they remove it, it's only fair that fighter chars are given another chance to edit their stats accordingly.
How the staff changes the definitions of stats really hurts older chars like mine. When i made Salathe after the wipe, the staff refused to tell the playerbase anything about what attributes did. We were all told to find out ingame. The problem with that is, that after about 5 months when we actually have experienced this complete remake of a game, we find out such things like... dex is very crucial for crafting, which hurt some crafters, and etc etc. And after those 5 months, no one wants to remake their char. And for those characters that have been around since the wipe, can see how much changing of stats has hurt Salathe as a fighter.
Cassandra gave characters the chance for a very hefty stat change when the argument of stats and RP came into play. This was used by a large amount of players (fighters and mages alike) since some mage characters had been around for years, but were hindered now because the mage system was brand new and how could these characters have any idea how to make their character 2 years beforehand. And of course fighters used this. Fighters did not use int much at all before this, and we all soon found out that int had gone from 100% worthless to one of (if not the most) important fighting attribute. It's a good thing Cassandra did allow players to accordingly change their stats, a lot of flame and bitch topics would have popped up fighting against what had happened.
I'd go as far to say, i'd like to see the system many mainstream games have. Every time a technical aspect is changed, players are told what is changed, and given complete explanation. Also, the players are given the chance to change whatever points they are able to distribute that are related to the change in that aspect of the game. Though... i know this wont ever happen in Illarion
SUMMING UP, all i'm saying is that if a stat is being removed (or added) from an entire aspect of this game, players deserve the chance to edit their characters accordingly.
language skills - int
baking -> dex
blacksmithing -> dex
carpentry -> dex
dying and tanning -> dex
fireing bricks -> dex
fishing -> dex
gemcutting -> dex
glass blowing -> dex
goldsmithing -> dex
herb lore -> dex
lumberjacking-> con
mining -> con
peasantry -> con
smithing ->dex
stealing ->dex
tailoring ->dex
library research -> int
Stealth -> agi
traps -> dex
concussion weapons -> str
distance weapons -> perc
dodge -> agi
parry -> dex
poisoning -> dex
puncture weapons -> dex
slashing weapons -> agi
tactics -> int
wrestling -> dex
alchemy -> Int
I'm indifferent about the dex argument, really....
though
If the staff decides ADD/REMOVE stats from fighting... AGAIN... players deserve another free stat change. It was BS enough that after about ~7 years of this game having absolutely no relation between int and fighting, they added int as a fighting stat (a very crucial one, at that). Now if after ~9 years of this game having a strong relation between dex and fighting... and they remove it, it's only fair that fighter chars are given another chance to edit their stats accordingly.
How the staff changes the definitions of stats really hurts older chars like mine. When i made Salathe after the wipe, the staff refused to tell the playerbase anything about what attributes did. We were all told to find out ingame. The problem with that is, that after about 5 months when we actually have experienced this complete remake of a game, we find out such things like... dex is very crucial for crafting, which hurt some crafters, and etc etc. And after those 5 months, no one wants to remake their char. And for those characters that have been around since the wipe, can see how much changing of stats has hurt Salathe as a fighter.
Cassandra gave characters the chance for a very hefty stat change when the argument of stats and RP came into play. This was used by a large amount of players (fighters and mages alike) since some mage characters had been around for years, but were hindered now because the mage system was brand new and how could these characters have any idea how to make their character 2 years beforehand. And of course fighters used this. Fighters did not use int much at all before this, and we all soon found out that int had gone from 100% worthless to one of (if not the most) important fighting attribute. It's a good thing Cassandra did allow players to accordingly change their stats, a lot of flame and bitch topics would have popped up fighting against what had happened.
I'd go as far to say, i'd like to see the system many mainstream games have. Every time a technical aspect is changed, players are told what is changed, and given complete explanation. Also, the players are given the chance to change whatever points they are able to distribute that are related to the change in that aspect of the game. Though... i know this wont ever happen in Illarion
SUMMING UP, all i'm saying is that if a stat is being removed (or added) from an entire aspect of this game, players deserve the chance to edit their characters accordingly.
Last edited by Salathe on Thu May 28, 2009 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I fully agree with Salathe's sentiment
..
Also, in my opinion, dex should be 100% useless for fighters. That way we'll have less Knights of Smithing.
I view dex as 'how good your fingers are' - hand to eye co-ordination I'd view as agility.
You don't need to have nible fingers to whack people with a sword.
..
Also, in my opinion, dex should be 100% useless for fighters. That way we'll have less Knights of Smithing.
I view dex as 'how good your fingers are' - hand to eye co-ordination I'd view as agility.
You don't need to have nible fingers to whack people with a sword.
Good use of someones wrist and hand placement is very crucial in any sort of melee combat, and i'd put wrist and hand control under dexterity.Hadrian_Abela wrote:I fully agree with Salathe's sentiment
..
Also, in my opinion, dex should be 100% useless for fighters. That way we'll have less Knights of Smithing.
I view dex as 'how good your fingers are' - hand to eye co-ordination I'd view as agility.
You don't need to have nible fingers to whack people with a sword.
I always saw dex as being an all around skill in fighting. When it comes to parrying a blow, one must be able to direct their weapon into a position where the incoming blow will be deflected. I would definately say dexterity with your hands comes into play here. Also when striking an opponent, one must be able to place their weapon into a position where they can land a strike. This would also require dexterity with your hands. Parry IMO would take into account, dex and agi, while chance to hit someone takes into account dex perc and agi. While damage with many weapons takes into account str and agi, or str and dex depending on the weapon.
Though i completely see people's point in stopping fighter crafters. Which i have no problem with, though its sort of odd as i've never seen that sentiment in any other game i've played. And in every game i've played dexterity is always the defining attribute in hit/defence rating
I say we just add Finesse as an attribute. Make that the defining crafting skill, though still have dexterity play a part so crafters just dont have to max out dex and be done with it. And of course dexterity will play an overall role in combat, specifically hit/defence rating
Crafts:
Baking PERC
Blacksmithing STR
Carpentry DEX
Dyeing and Tanning PERC
Firing Bricks CON
Fishing AGIL (or DEX)
Gem-cutting DEX
Glass-blowing DEX
Gold-smithing DEX
Herblore PERC
Lumberjacking STR
Mining STR
Farming CON
Stealing DEX
Tailoring DEX
Don't know about magic, but I like the idea that Magic Resistance depends on Willpower.
Other:
Library Research INT
Stealth AGIL
Traps AGIL (or DEX)
Fighting
Concussion Weapons STR
Distance Weapons PERC
Dodge AGIL
Parry AGIL
Poisoning DEX
Puncture Weapons AGIL
Slashing Weapons STR
Tactics INT
Wrestling STR
Druidry
Alchemy INT
Vegeba-whatsit PERC
Exquerire or whatever PERC
Music
Flute DEX
Harp DEX
Horn CON
Lute DEX
Baking PERC
Blacksmithing STR
Carpentry DEX
Dyeing and Tanning PERC
Firing Bricks CON
Fishing AGIL (or DEX)
Gem-cutting DEX
Glass-blowing DEX
Gold-smithing DEX
Herblore PERC
Lumberjacking STR
Mining STR
Farming CON
Stealing DEX
Tailoring DEX
Don't know about magic, but I like the idea that Magic Resistance depends on Willpower.
Other:
Library Research INT
Stealth AGIL
Traps AGIL (or DEX)
Fighting
Concussion Weapons STR
Distance Weapons PERC
Dodge AGIL
Parry AGIL
Poisoning DEX
Puncture Weapons AGIL
Slashing Weapons STR
Tactics INT
Wrestling STR
Druidry
Alchemy INT
Vegeba-whatsit PERC
Exquerire or whatever PERC
Music
Flute DEX
Harp DEX
Horn CON
Lute DEX
- Gregory Hardcast
- Posts: 152
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Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
I think cooking and a few other crafting skills should have perception rather than dexterity determining them basically.Estralis Seborian wrote:
language skills-intelligence
baking - perception
blacksmithing - strength
carpentry - dexterity
dying and tanning - dexterity
fireing bricks - dexterity
fishing - willpower
gemcutting - dexterity
glass blowing - constitution
goldsmithing - dexterity
herb lore - intelligence
lumberjacking - strength
mining - strength
peasantry - dexterity
smithing - strength
stealing - agility
tailoring - perception
commotio - intelligence
desicio - essence
genese - essence
magic resistance - willpower
pervestigatio - essence
transformo - essence
transfreto - essence
library research - intelligence
Stealth - agility
traps - dexterity
concussion weapons - strength
distance weapons - perception
dodge - agility
parry - perception
poisoning - intelligence
puncture weapons - agility
slashing weapons - strength
tactics - intelligence
wrestling - strength
alchemy - intelligence
flute - perception
harp - dexterity
horn - perception
lute - dexterity
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
How I see it, essence should be how much mana you have, willpower how much you can resist magic and intelligence how well you can wield it.Estralis Seborian wrote:Fellow Illarionites,
for evaluating a development project, I need to assign "lead attributes" to skills. Think of this lead attribute as the stat that boosts things like skill gain, rate of success, damage, quality of products,...
I need one attribute for each skill, not two and no "depends on...". I'd appreciate as many different opinions as possible, consensus is not necessary.
Example:
banning Willpower
pwning Essence
cheating Agility
Thanks in advance! Here is the list of skills I know, some might be useless:
Code: Select all
language skills int baking perc - Know when it's ready, observant taster blacksmithing dex carpentry dex dying and tanning no idea fireing bricks no idea fishing dex gemcutting dex glass blowing dex goldsmithing dex herb lore perc (not int, as anyone can learn names, it's about spotting the right ones) lumberjacking str mining str peasantry dex smithing str stealing dex tailoring dex commotio intelligence desicio intelligence genese wtf? magic resistance willpower, screw essence pervestigatio intelligence transformo intelligence transfreto intelligence library research intelligence Stealth dexterity traps dexterity concussion weapons strength distance weapons perception dodge agility - faster you move, faster you dodge parry dexterity - quick, yet accurate movements poisoning dexterity - know exactly how to stab to poison puncture weapons agility slashing weapons agility tactics intelligence wrestling strength alchemy intelligence flute dexterity - This is harder, because I know intelligent people who are crap at music, so it's not intelligence, but flute isn't so much dexterity as much as rhythm and skill, but if I had to class it it'd be dex harp dex horn constitution (big lungs) lute dex
Re: Call for opinions: Lead attributes
Truthfully, I don't think we need this, and that the 'crafting' types should all have the same thing (with dependence on strength for gathering, and no malius for refining)
Thief skills would be good for agi/dex. Traps would require thought to put together, hide properly, ect.
language skills (no skill for first two (race and common) +2 requirement for each after)
baking -> Dex
blacksmithing -> Dex
carpentry -> Dex
dying and tanning -Not IG, put with Tailoring but would go in Dex
fireing bricks -Useless skill IG, Dex
fishing -Dex / Perc
gemcutting -Dex
glass blowing -Dex
goldsmithing -Dex
herb lore - Dex / Perc
lumberjacking - Dex + Strength
mining - Dex + Strength
peasantry (Not IG, can't imagine what would go)
smithing - Dex + Strength
stealing (Not IG) -Agility + Dex
tailoring - Dex
commotio - Willpower
desicio - Essence
genese (if I am thinking correctly, I would suppose Int)
magic resistance - Willpower
pervestigatio - Int + Perc
transformo - Essence+Int + Perc
transfreto - Essence
library research -Int
Stealth - Agility + Dex + Int
traps - Dex + Int + Agi
concussion weapons -Strength
distance weapons -Dex+Strength+Agi
dodge -Agi
parry -Agi
poisoning -Dex+Int+Agi
puncture weapons - Agi + Strength
slashing weapons - Strength
tactics - Int
wrestling - Strength
alchemy - Int + Perc.
flute - Agi
harp - Dex
horn - Strength
lute - Int
Thief skills would be good for agi/dex. Traps would require thought to put together, hide properly, ect.
language skills (no skill for first two (race and common) +2 requirement for each after)
baking -> Dex
blacksmithing -> Dex
carpentry -> Dex
dying and tanning -Not IG, put with Tailoring but would go in Dex
fireing bricks -Useless skill IG, Dex
fishing -Dex / Perc
gemcutting -Dex
glass blowing -Dex
goldsmithing -Dex
herb lore - Dex / Perc
lumberjacking - Dex + Strength
mining - Dex + Strength
peasantry (Not IG, can't imagine what would go)
smithing - Dex + Strength
stealing (Not IG) -Agility + Dex
tailoring - Dex
commotio - Willpower
desicio - Essence
genese (if I am thinking correctly, I would suppose Int)
magic resistance - Willpower
pervestigatio - Int + Perc
transformo - Essence+Int + Perc
transfreto - Essence
library research -Int
Stealth - Agility + Dex + Int
traps - Dex + Int + Agi
concussion weapons -Strength
distance weapons -Dex+Strength+Agi
dodge -Agi
parry -Agi
poisoning -Dex+Int+Agi
puncture weapons - Agi + Strength
slashing weapons - Strength
tactics - Int
wrestling - Strength
alchemy - Int + Perc.
flute - Agi
harp - Dex
horn - Strength
lute - Int
- Aldan Vian
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