How does the "atmosphere" of Illarion feel like?

Mesha · Post by **Mesha** » Sun May 24, 2009 5:26 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:One thing that might create the impression of stagnation to especially someone who is not playing the game, is the fact that the guild-scene is practically dead. The active 'guilds' are few and far between, and even the towns suffer from (varying degrees) of inactivity.

The reason why there are not many active guilds in the game relates to the overmoderation of the guild board. Seriously guys, I can't see any gain in the effort to ensure that a guild has four different players in it. Not every guild has to be a settlement or knighthood or some other mass-organization. From personal experience, I know that some guilds can work the best and most efficiently when there are just two or three active members, and some guilds can be completely inactive despite having supposedly 30 members, all from different players.

So, what 'I' think should be done is: The guild board regulations are relaxed so that forthwith a guild is "Any group or organization of single characters, with one character from two different players required for a guild topic". There amount of active player merchants is annoyingly low for instance, and this sort of regulation easing might actually help some merchant guilds or similar groups to be formed.

Even if the new guilds don't become active and fail.. so what? The potential return in terms of more guild activity and activity in general are greater than the rather miniscule annoyance-risk.

I wholeheartedly agree. I totally understand why they implemented this rule, but it just doesn't suit our small community. It doesn't stimulate better or more active guilds, it only stimulates people to find non-interested people who are willing to work together for 3 minutes so they have 4 unique characters.

Achae Eanstray · Post by **Achae Eanstray** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:50 pm

If it makes any difference....another vote for the change in the guild system.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon May 25, 2009 5:38 pm

That won't make difference at all. Guilds with less than four members usually turn out to be quite short-lived. If you have guilds that get about ten or more members, chances are very high that three or four stay kinda active over longer terms, if the guild consisted of roleplayers mainly.

And if you want to open a guild topic, create a forum user group for the guild and process administrative rights for that board group part for every it's-a-good-idea-for-three-days-two-people-guild, you'll end up with much more board-administrative work, and the staff doesn't really have the manpower for that.
So you see, that rule does indeed have some sense in it.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:39 am

The guild issue needs a lot more attention than changing a number in a set of rules of a forum board. The roots of this go deeper - to me, it seems like many players got alienated from the island. Like, they regard towns and buildings as part of the given engine and when they want to achieve something, they have to deviate from this. So, we see a tendency to found new institutions instead of uniting under a common banner. Also, when we see conflicts, we see violence. Trade competition? Struggle over markets? Not here.

In the end, I think us all have to try to improve the situation by joining existing guilds and shaping them instead of letting them die. One example, Vanima is close to deserted. But nobody tries to bring some life to there, instead, I see plenty characters sparring endlessly with no reason or crafting the 287th handle with nobody buying it. How can we encourage social interaction over mindless clicking?

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:57 am

The main problem here, as you said, it's because there is no interaction between guilds on a trade level.
I mean, let's face it every guild has at least one Jack-of-all-trades that supplies everything to it.. why would they need to trade when they can find all resurses everywhere, when they can make every item in the game.

I think that a first step to making this better was made when the static tools were spread across the towns.. maybe if we can have more, specific tools, like, dunno.. a special anvil for some special items, a special oven for some special food, etc, then the towns will be forced to trade more.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Tue May 26, 2009 11:43 am

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote: I think that a first step to making this better was made when the static tools were spread across the towns.. maybe if we can have more, specific tools, like, dunno.. a special anvil for some special items, a special oven for some special food, etc, then the towns will be forced to trade more.

Except silverbrand and the northmark noone would have a gain from that,simply because the towns are wide open, with the portalstones and mages able to cast portals noone would care for any trading, they just go there and use the specialtool.

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 11:45 am

i can guaranty you, the Nordmark needs trades! we dont want to walk 15 minutes to the next mine to get the ore, bringing it to the Mark, melting it to iron. Instead: we farm what the dwarves need amd we trade it for iron. but we cant deliver everything...thats where Briar can jump in. For our new buildingplans, we need sand and glas from varshikar. there is onl one problem for us: we have no f..lying mule. that makes it hard for us to trade

so....if you want trade between guilds and settlements: give us mules

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 11:57 am

Kranek wrote:For our new buildingplans, we need sand and glas from varshikar. there is onl one problem for us: we have no f..lying mule. that makes it hard for us to trade

But then you can just collect the sand yourself with the mule

I think if there was an IG way of tying a person to a guild/settlement, then you could have 'guild only' special tools ect which would greatly help this.

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:06 pm

Why should i try to do everything else when trading can give us possibilities for RP??
Of course i can save the money....but i dont want that! and i dont want to "aste" my time to travel to the desert to get the sand. I can simply pay a Varshikari to do that.

Guild only tools....there is something like that, known as onions

You can plant special trees somewhere, a special kind of fish etc...not the tools...the ressources!

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:09 pm

I once came with a nice idea that the GMs said they will take into consideration. The idea was to "force" players to spend more time in towns, by making the cap imposible to go away if not.

To go into more detail:
- Spending time near a fire
- Spending time on a chair or in a room.
- Logging off near a bed will speed up the recovery process or even give a small bonus (maybe a good day) for the next time you log.. But to do this, you must "own" a bed, either by renting it from an npc, or by having a house.

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:14 pm

@Avalyon:
What about the chars who want to play bandits? Without small camps in the wilderness, they wouldnt be able to be played...

I want more camps!
There are so many camps out there with a fireplace...why not add a depot, maybe an old ruin or something like that to make it possible to "live" there? It would make it possible ot play a robber...

Ashayen · Post by **Ashayen** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:19 pm

or a lonely witch, lol. Yes!! I would like to see those camps used as well since it could give us great opportunities for new RP-Possibilities especially for those who try to avoid the cities but sadly always have to come back there because of the depots

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:20 pm

Aye, of course! who said no?

If you want to build your house in a cave, why not?

but at least you will be "tied" to that place, not like it's now.. everyone and his dog owns a house but spends no time in there.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:26 pm

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:Aye, of course! who said no? If you want to build your house in a cave, why not? .

The building rules said no.

I don't like 'forcing people to spend more time in towns or else no cap removed' thing.

I had an idea for making chairs ect useful once, but it wasn't really accepted

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:35 pm

Bulding rules can be changed, no one carved them in stone yet.

As for the hole "forcing" thing, look at it as a necessarely good. The cap removal was just an idea.. it can easly be replaced with just the fact that if you dont log off (sleep) in a bed, at least once every X IG days, you'll have a bad day next time you log in ,or something like that. The possibilities are endless, the core of the idea is what matters.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:36 pm

Just a general input: You think about adding stuff to the game, scriptwise, serverwise. Don't you think you're just increasing the complexity of the problem?

How about we remove obstacles and encourage guilds somehow? Without creating dependencies nobody needs? I mean, when you connect a guild status to the mental capacity, what if the mental capacity system is no more, one day?

Small groups are founded on a daily base, but few persist. And those who do lack common goals. There are few goals one can have in Illarion; build a hucksville somewhere is one, but take a look at Call-a-horn, Caelum or even Tol Vanima now.

So, what goals can only be reached by guilds? What can a guild accumulate what an individual cannot? I think fame is one answer...

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:46 pm

Yes, but one builds a house, a town, a guildhouse with the main idea to spend his time there along with his friends.. but when they have no real reason to stay there, when it would be a lot easier to spend their time in the middle of another town just because they have everything they need there, that house/guild/town becomes deserted.
What we need to do is find a way to encourrage people to spend more time in the places their chars are RP-bound to and not have them all be at all times in Trolls Bane.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:10 pm

People stay in trollsbane for a number of reasons

Reason 1: Trollsbane is where everyone is. If you're a crafter you're not going to make much money staying in somewhere else. If its a guild hall, you're not going to make any money at all

Reason 2: Trollsbane has static tools. Getting static tools for your guild/settlement is VERY hard, with the new 'each tool costs 50 silvers more than the one before' rule. I think its a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY bad 'feature'. ESPECIALLY with the 'crafters need other crafters' features.

So if I want to be able to make a good smithery I'll need - an anvil and a furnace. I'll need a gem cutting tool for the higher level armors. I'll also need a carpenter's table for the handles.

Total of : 50+100+150+200 = 5 gold pieces

Also I'll need leather, which comes from pigs, which now cost 100 silver coins each. So if i want 2 pigs It'll cost me a grand total of

7 gold pieces.

So given that, its easier to stay in a town which has everything than build your own.

Reason 3: Going from town A to town B is too hard. Especially if you're carrying a lot of things and you'll need to walk. So its very hard for an established character to move his 'base of operations' to another town/settlement/guild. Reason 1 plays a lot into this as well.
-
In my opinion the static tool system, while good-hearted in effect, ruined a lot of possible roleplay activities. No more 'ranger camps', no more 'bandit camps'... and getting all of them is a necessity if you want to have people leaving trollsbane for the guild/settlement

Post by **Jupiter** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:13 pm

Put your damn guildhouses in the towns. Nearly every problem is soloved now!

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:23 pm

@Jupiter: Excellent idea dude! My barbarian elven-hater now will live side-by-side with elves and mages! YAY!

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:55 pm

Yes, Jupiter, thank you for your poposal. I'll bring my orc and put him to sleep in the same bed as Merung, aye?

@hadrian: Yes mate, you are very very right and that is precisely what I was trying to say in my first post. It's true that people make their own guild/settlements with the intention to RP there, but as soon as they figure out that all that they need is free on charge in Trolls Bane, then "to hell with it, i'm staying here".

Maybe a solution would be to suggest to the town leaders to lock these static tools away and give keys only to those that pay a monthly fee and are citizens of those towns?

And yes.. the +50 silvers tax is bull.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:01 pm

I think the best idea - the best of both worlds is this.

I) Make static tools cheaper - ALWAYS

II) If you have a guild which has LOCKED UP tools - the tools are special (using data values) and given a bonus (+5 skill?)

III) If you have a guild which has LOCKED UP tools - AND they're in their own personal building/room (for example a smithing foundry would only have anvils and furnaces ect) you get a furthur bonus (+10 skill?)
--

That way the Knights of the Pink Waterbuffalo's smithery would be better than the one in trollsbane, because its a locked up tool.

Also the United Smithing Guild of Smithiness' static tools will be most likely in their own personal foundry building - making them very useful bonus-wise

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:19 pm

Thats a good idea, but seems to me rather .. well, dunno.... Tell you the truth, even if my house would have a +10 smithing anvil, id's still stay in bane because I have everything that I need there: pigs, tools, mine close by, people to RP with, teleporter, mule, etc.

I think that a better solution is found IG, like I said.. each town locks away it's tools, giving access only to the citizens.. so we won't have Mr X jack-of-all-trades and citizen of Bane, also make candles in Vanima or Briar.

Joxia Doral · Post by **Joxia Doral** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:25 pm

[quote="Avalyon el'Hattarr"]

Maybe a solution would be to suggest to the town leaders to lock these static tools away and give keys only to those that pay a monthly fee and are citizens of those towns?

This is being considered allready...dont know about the key part....and some will let others in anyway. and then theres lost keys, stolen keys....

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:27 pm

Well, towns have a guard, don't they?

Illegal usage of tools iwthout a license: fine 5 silvers

Olive · Post by **Olive** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:28 pm

Do we really want to actively discourage newer players from even trying to learn a craft?

Joxia Doral · Post by **Joxia Doral** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:31 pm

Good point as well..most new players if not just starting out a thief at least sample the crafting system.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:35 pm

Let's say Mr Y is a blacksmith, played by a new player.

Mr Y is going in Bane for the first time.. as he wonders about, he meets another char, Mr Z, whom he asks about where he can find a mine, tools, and blacksmith static tools. Mr Z, being arround for a while, knows that in order to use the town tools, one must be a citizen, so he directs Mr Y to the nearest town official so he can get admitted.

See? so where's the problem in that?

it's only roleplay

Insted of saying "this is bad, i don't like it" Olive, you should come with your own proposals for the matter.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:40 pm

Lets say Mister Y is a new player.

He already knows what he needs to smith due to n00bia. His starting package gave him all the tools he needs and some ingots. He decides to try it out.

He wanders about and finds the workshop and tries to make something out of iron.

He gets nabbed by a guard, gets frustrated and never logs in again.

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:44 pm

Lets say Mr Alpha is the guard. He would tell Mr Y why he isnt allowed to use the anvil and instead of kicking his butt, Alpha helps Y to become member of Bane....easy, aint it?