Illarion.org

Not many people use concussion weapons, I know...

A smith can make 3 types of concussion weapons, and then there's the staff which isn't very popular.

The mace can be made pretty easily, one handed and does a fair amount of damage.

The morning star is a bit harder. You can make a few types of armor before you can make a morning star. (Note that you can make all the types of swords by then, in excellent quality) The morning star has reach but it is slow. A fair price...maybe.

Now this brings us to the warhammer. To get an average one you have to train your smithing to a high degree, you can make a good amount of armors by then. The warhammer however is INSANELY slow (it has reach as well) - and not amazingly damaging as you would expect it.

So the proposal is this. Could we have 'better' concussion weapons? The warhammer is very hard to make, could we have it a bit faster? I don't think anyone would use a warhammer in combat... oh and spice up the damage while you're there

Umm Discuss.

The new fighting system is in work along with a full rebalancing of all armors and weapons.

Be sure the current problems with the concussion weapons will be solved along with this.

Nitram

I've tried to explain that reach really only helps in the most minimal of cases a couple times and got ignored. Also, I think the "bigger the weapon the slower but more damage it does" equation doesn't work out. I think a more dynamic system is required, because a quarterstaff is actually a highly fast weapon when used in real life, it's got great defense, but it doesn't hurt any more than getting bonked by a weighted stick does (which is considerable, but not like the kind of hurt that a mace or a sword would do).

Also, I think we underestimate the raw power of a bludgeoning weapons. A friend of mine and I were once considering making a local independent slasher flic in which we broke the stereotype of the sharp-object wielding slasher and instead replaced him with someone with a sledgehammer. The thought of the next villain discovering something's wrong as they feel the last victim's teeth and skull fragments crunch under their feet made the whole thing very tempting. Truly bludgeoning someone to death is perhaps one of the most disgusting (and effective) ways of killing humans.

I recall an incident when I was young where I was sleeping over at a friend of mine's family home. His younger brother had a serious case of untreated ADHD. Their father is the local Chief of Police and I think he figured he could just handle the kid's violent outbursts and keep him in line and he'd just grow out of it. Anyhow, this kid was seriously violent, almost like territorial. You didn't have to mess with him. You were someone who is new to the environment and surely you deserve pain. There was one time when the kid chased me with an electric drill. What was most amazing about it was that he had planned ahead and made sure he had enough extension chord to chase me around the house a full three times.

Anyhow, back on topic (sort of) this one time this kid comes running down the stairs with a rubber mallet over his head hollering like a barbarian on the fritz. He swung the mallet downwards at me and I jumped out of the way, only for the rubber mallet to hit the ground and bounce back. Effectively this kid put all the force of his body into this mallet and whacked himself in the face with it.

There he was on the ground with a trail of blood flowing out of his nostril, unconscious, and the fear dawned on me that I might have just seen someone bludgeon themselves to death. We had long enough to have a conversation about how we were going to explain to his parents that their kid was dead before he woke up and screamed at the top of his lungs in pain. The "crack" that issued from this kid's head when that hammer hit will likely be with me for the rest of my life.

Bludgeoning weapons are not to be underestimated.

Aegohl wrote:Truly bludgeoning someone to death is perhaps one of the most disgusting (and effective) ways of killing humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs

Been done before.

I've only used reach once effectively when there was need to reach past the fighter in front as both kill the monster. It worked great then.

Could we have 'better' concussion weapons?

Sure. In work, as Nitram stated. Concussion weapons will be a match to other weapons. If you have concrete proposals, feel free to drop them here.

The warhammer is very hard to make, could we have it a bit faster?

Nope. But the "how hard to make" factor will change in distant future.

I don't think anyone would use a warhammer in combat...

Not now, right. But in future, definatly!

oh and spice up the damage while you're there

Of course. The warhammer will deliver the most devastating damage per hit of all weapons. It will remain slow, though.

Hadrian_Abela wrote:

Aegohl wrote:Truly bludgeoning someone to death is perhaps one of the most disgusting (and effective) ways of killing humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs

Been done before.

If you thought I was suggesting that you can't or it's hard to kill someone with bludgeoning, then you didn't read my post at all.

I didn't contradict you, I enforced your point. The story at the bottom wasn't there when I posted it

I don't know if will be part of the update:

Why was the other kind of mace (dull mace?) removed? Will it be replaced again? I think there is a bit of a lack of concussion weapons.

abcfantasy wrote:I think there is a bit of a lack of concussion weapons.

Sorry, but I disagree. We have a mace, a warhammer, a morning star, a club and some (8?) staves. And most people will use swords anyway, as in any other fantasy roleplying game.
If there is anything that Illarion doesn't need than it is more weapons IMHO.

Illa just needs a nice aluminum baseball bat

or at the very least a nice wooden one, and on a CDG strike your opponents head could fly off for S&G?

personally i think things are being handled in the wrong manner

if youw ant people to stop all using serinjah's, make armor that reduces serinjah or slash weapon effectiveness by like 90% and you will see peopel flock to other weapons in a sort of triangle of blunt-slash-thrust arms race with the armor.

Cant slash through that heavy plate? grab a rapier and stab him into submission with a weapon the armor is useless against

New weapons will be included, but no concussion ones, sorry. We could use some more but for now, we take what we have. In special high end weapons (e.g. "thunder hammer", "fire mace",...) are missing.

Cant slash through that heavy plate? grab a rapier and stab him into submission with a weapon the armor is useless against

Olive got the idea and this is exactly what my part in all this was/is all about. Balance.

By the way, once and for all for everyone: The swiftness of serinjah swords is a TYPO in the database. No feature. Not intended. Bug. Error. Fault. So, don't moan when you wake up and find all those swords to be as normal as they were supposed to be.

Estralis Seborian wrote:New weapons will be included, but no concussion ones, sorry. We could use some more but for now, we take what we have. In special high end weapons (e.g. "thunder hammer", "fire mace",...) are missing.

In which instance do these drop? And can we please have T7-armour sets?

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:In which instance do these drop?

That is what I am working on RIGHT NOW. Drops will be readjusted, too. To make it clear, the examples (thunder hammer,...) are no new items, just entries of my wishing list.

And can we please have T7-armour sets?

Nope. You mean one of those?

If the dog is included, I wouldn't mind this getting added. *Equips a poodle as body armor*

Estralis Seborian wrote: Nope. You mean one of those?

Yes! Please, please, please! That is just too cute. Now I want a nice little puppy as well!

why is a war hammer hard to make? it's a hunk of metal on a stick. i can go outside right now, find a big rock, a big stick, tie them together with some rope and in about 5 minutes i have a handy warhammer. (make them easier DUH!)

Tanistian_Kanea wrote:why is a war hammer hard to make? it's a hunk of metal on a stick. i can go outside right now, find a big rock, a big stick, tie them together with some rope and in about 5 minutes i have a handy warhammer. (make them easier DUH!)

No, You'll have a rock tied to a stick.

-.- what do you think crude war hammers where (hell, what do you think crude hammer where)

were*

And no. It is not the same as tieing a stick and a rock together. You have to have the right quality of metal, you have to restablize the wood with metal, and you have to make sure that the metal doesn't get too heavy or it will just snap off.

And that is harder to do than forging a longsword+ from scratch?

Guide to smithing a war hammer.

Drill, or forge an iron ingot with a hole in the middle. shove a stick into the hole. Drive some small metal wedges into the top of the wood where it slides into the ingot(hammer). This makes the wood "expand" to where the head will not fly off.

Congratulations!

I personally dont think we need more clubs, hammer ect.
Even if we get new ones, at least noone will use it (Skeletons, maybe, but no players).
I find it really more important to get some new daggers.
You have only 3 real dagger types.
My first idea would be a snake sword in dagger form. So a shorter version of the snakesword.
Then maybe a two-headed dagger (2 blades come out of the handle), or some daggers with resticks.
Just some ideas, but there are many daggerfighters round here, and a smith can make a red dagger (best one, excluded magic ones) before making a morning star.(when he reached middle skill level)
Also some new armors would be nice, maybe not only metal helmets, but leather caps would be nice, aswell. Cuz i dont think a hunter will run around with a metal helmet when he is hunting for wolves ect. Oh, and not only 1 type of metal boots/gloves. (i know its alot, but would improve fighting)
Just some ideas.

After the next update of the fighting system, there'll be 15 daggers but still only 4 one handed concussion weapons.

I think one can include all kinds of weapons, so everybody feel free to download/buy a 3D modelling program and render some graphics. Otherwise, we don't have much to add to the game...

Estralis Seborian wrote:After the next update of the fighting system, there'll be 15 daggers but still only 4 one handed concussion weapons.

I find that immensly silly, and most will never be used - also some are not obvious at all.

Yes I'm sure we can assume 'simple dagger' is the least powerful.

But which is the better? Red dagger, ornate dagger, sharp dagger?

Not so obvious now is it?

There are tons of swords, so far most people use (aside from the magical weapons) serinjah swords, with a bit of an entry for elven rainbow and longswords. The rest rarely get a look in

I think one can include all kinds of weapons, so everybody feel free to download/buy a 3D modelling program and render some graphics. Otherwise, we don't have much to add to the game...

Blender

Its free.

Rekarafi wrote:I personally dont think we need more clubs, hammer ect.
Even if we get new ones, at least noone will use it (Skeletons, maybe, but no players).
I find it really more important to get some new daggers.
You have only 3 real dagger types.
My first idea would be a snake sword in dagger form. So a shorter version of the snakesword.
Then maybe a two-headed dagger (2 blades come out of the handle), or some daggers with resticks.
Just some ideas, but there are many daggerfighters round here, and a smith can make a red dagger (best one, excluded magic ones) before making a morning star.(when he reached middle skill level)
Also some new armors would be nice, maybe not only metal helmets, but leather caps would be nice, aswell. Cuz i dont think a hunter will run around with a metal helmet when he is hunting for wolves ect. Oh, and not only 1 type of metal boots/gloves. (i know its alot, but would improve fighting)
Just some ideas.

For the record red daggers are not the strongest dagger, they suck actually. and the poisone versions should be counted as different weapons, as they do have an added effect. meaning there are plenty of daggers.

As too cuncussion weapons, can't we just make the staves more appealing? bring up the damage, and increase the speed a bit? seems most people don't use concussion skills but trust me high skills and a battle staff can do some good damage since the last changes on the system.

No one uses staves but they are concussion, not some seperate entity as they are always seeming to be catagories. So id say we have plenty of concussion weapons, just alot people never think to use, and probably because they aren't worth it yet.

Athian wrote:No one uses staves but they are concussion, not some seperate entity as they are always seeming to be catagories. So id say we have plenty of concussion weapons, just alot people never think to use, and probably because they aren't worth it yet.

Given that staves are 2-handed and slow, and the new parry/dodge system uses up action points, and you can't carry a shield since they're two handed, using a stave in combat will get you hurt pretty bad I would think.

Await the update before you make assumptions .

There are tons of swords, so far most people use (aside from the magical weapons) serinjah swords, with a bit of an entry for elven rainbow and longswords. The rest rarely get a look in

..not necessarily.. there are other swords good to use also though that may change. I think puncture is good with the daggers. Concussion I haven't tested as much yet when I did it wasn't very effective, if that can be slightly nerfed either with increase speed or hit it would be nice.

Hadrian_Abela wrote:

Athian wrote:No one uses staves but they are concussion, not some seperate entity as they are always seeming to be catagories. So id say we have plenty of concussion weapons, just alot people never think to use, and probably because they aren't worth it yet.

Given that staves are 2-handed and slow, and the new parry/dodge system uses up action points, and you can't carry a shield since they're two handed, using a stave in combat will get you hurt pretty bad I would think.

Have you used any of the current stave weapons? do you have a character with even marginal skill using them? The staff i most often use, the current battle staff is neither slow nor does it parry badly. I think its a sheer underestimation by people who probably don't have concussion skills or the right attributes. certainly they aren't the absolute fastest weapons in the game but not all of them move at the speed of the warhammer.

The parry/dodge issue has never actually been an issue, the system still moves smoothly regardless of them taking up ap. So wearing light armor and weilding a staff you get plenty of dodges and parries. Its a matter of sufficent amount of skill. maybe the staves just aren't weapons for peope who want to have an easy time.

This same thing occured to some of the better fighter characters awhile ago when testing out weapons, Back in the buggy serinjah times. They started messing around with the good old double axe which of course couldn't possibly be a match for the super swift serinjah and found that in actuality not only was it a match but in the right hands it could completely outclass the Serinjah. having been on the recieving end of one of those axes i can say it was pretty much a slaughter.

In the end some weapons are simply more popular then others i think, so peoples actual knowledge of how effective they are or aren't is severly limited. alot of times what you find is the fighter character is a mixup of a bunch attributes and thus can't use alot of weapons to good potential and so these characters tend to switch back to certain 'default' weapons. Like serinjahs for example.