Virtual carnal desires - discussion in here

[The Returner]

I agree with hadrian 100%. But, two questions, one can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the elf your banging is above the age of majority WITHOUT breaking the OOC information rule, and two, can you prevent a minor 100% from walking into your whisper space, taking also into account possible lag. Otherwise staff is presented with two options, ban something potentially illegal in favor of a larger playerbase, or alienate these potentially good players by making the game available to people of the opinion that sex is detrimental to character development in this game in which it is not.

[Pellandria]

Graphic violence is ILLEGAL as well.
#me strikes at the sheep, making its entrials drop out of the sides
#me grabs the entrails and wraps them around the sheep's neck, throttling it in its own blood and filth.

That is the extrem form of violence, honestly how many people do you see rp'ing a sex scene where they use "disgusting" words, hell there are so many words that you don't even need to name the true name, you can simply use another word, instead of the "real thing", I would personally want to know where you draw the line, what is explicit for you?

"#me gently kisses the womans neck, his hands trail down her back as he caresses her lower curves"

that allright for you?
Because that pretty much does nothing or is that allready "omg adult sexscene" for you, I won't state an "hardcore" version here because I guess noone wants to read that.

That is just as likely to get me warned by the gms.

I never heard of anyone ever getting warned for violence, but I guess I will not be able to know all of it, so if a Gm wants to inform me he is free to do.
Furthermore there are a few disturbing sentences in one of my rpg forum post, something that I first wanted to delete, but let it there anyway(don't worry to search it, its german only anyway) for the sake of atmosphere, noone complained about that one, so i guess even such descriptions seem to be allright.

Now, if we want to leave explicit sexual scenes, we'd need to make sure that adults only can play this game. (Fal, please correct me if I'm wrong).

So we need to have "You agree that you are over the legal age for sexual activity in your country" checks. Which have as much chance of being put in as swish1 winning the Nobel Prize.

There are alot of Games, that tell you, that you must be of certaint age to play, as allready mentioned before Illarion should leave their "kiddy friendly" path and go on an "all mature" route, this would help the Game instead of taking stuff out of it. A simple checkbox saying "are you over 18 or the legal border of being an adult in your country?" or something is complettly normal, leaving out such checkbox just will create every char from this player with a big fat "M" at the end, so everyone will avoid playing such sences around that char.

Let me give an example of a game that has death, the settlers 3. When killed, the settlers disappear and turn into angels which float up. Rating of that game is PG at most.

In the postal series, death is gruesome, and you can urinate on the remains if you so wish. Rating of that game is adult only.

BUT THEY BOTH CONTAIN DEATH!

This is exactly where you shoot yourself in the knee, because untill now your only argument is "I don't play Illarion to have sex, thus noone else should", now you are saying that something that is necessary, death is more or less necesarry in every strategie game, no matter how you include it, its allright to be included, mature content of any sorts, is atleast in my eyes, someting that should indeed be a part of the game instead of hanging a taboo over it like the rest of the world does, why taboo it, if you ~don't even freaking see it~?
I see more people slashing at each other, training, spilling blood than I ever see other people cyber.

In Illarion, the worst thing that happens is the blood splatter being shown, and you turn into a ghost. If you roleplay it gruesomely, its illegal.

Oh that sounds like it wouldn't be that much of a hassle, well I got an information or you, showing blood is actually gore itself allready, in germany not one ego shooter has a driplet of blood showing, so we ~are~ allready above the law here, means either you take every drip of blood out of the game or you include a check to keep minors away anyway and if we are allready at violence, go ahead give us nudity, breasts and love.

Illarion is a ROLEPLAYING game. Therefore it should be the case that mechanics aid that.

Wrong...wrong..ohh..did I mention wrong?
How many things did you play in Illarion, that aren't engine mentioned, hey..smiling wait a second..your Avatar is ~not~ smiling, so you can't smile...nor laugh..hey you can't raise your hands either, nor can you sit down and obviously people are mages all over the place, because somehow they manage to move their weapons...without the need to raise their hands *gasp* telekinese FTW!
Oh and you should remove the magic system aswell, if you look close enough you see that a mage, doing a more potent spell, is rubbing...his chest..mana my ass..thats sexual energy right there!

((I'm sorry for this part, but obviously you won't understand it in another more clam and serious way.))

If I'm playing a game, who's goal is to kill things gruesomely, you'd expect the game to actually help you do that. I could play a FPS or dwarf fort or something.

If I'm playing a game, who's goal is to have sex with animated graphics, you'd expect the game to try to help you. You can play [host of adult games and stuff]

Honestly, you make it seem like that everyone who rp's sex in Illairon simply does that and ~only~ that from logging in to logging out again, but thats what a rpg is about or?
Rping is one of the main points in Illarion, its not important how I do it, well you should use #me's or stars to atleast show that your char does something, as allready said I rather have someone rp'ing instead of using the engine to the max.

[Rhandarja Opalin]

Nothing more to say .. Pella brought to the point. One more time.

[Mairae Auvria]

I think the "engine" can be discounted since your char can't even sit in a chair . There is a lot more to making a game "kid safe" then content and does Illa really want to be similar to these?

http://www.tlucretius.net/RPGs/kids.html


Some general rules for "safe" kid online games would include privacy, even getting parent permission for an email address, is this really where Illa wants to go? Again, lots of games have warnings to parents there may be adult content.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.shtm

[Talirea Iomee]

OK, I was thinking a long time about if I should post my two cents or better not, because I know there will be a lot people who won't like to hear it...

First of all: I can understand both sides.



It is true that a well RPed sexual scene can be a part of very nice roleplay and a part of a char's life and developement, just like a romance, his /her normal allday work or what ever. And yes, it is also true, that there shouldn't be a problem with such scenes as long as both POs are adults and agree to it.

But:

who tells you that the PO you are playing with isn't a minor?
Some of you may think they could figure it out but I can tell you I was surprised sometimes when I got to know the age of some people I was playing with. And no, it wasn't CS. But if I only think of the possibility that it could have happened... oh no, better let's not.

Some arguments I read here were about,
checking the age and make clear for all if the char they are playing with is played by a minor or not. Good idea - on the first look.
But again I have to ask, who could control what information they are giving to that check? Even if we implement such a check, who tells you that a 15 year old US-player (no offense, this is only an example), doesn't pretend to be at the age of 21?

I did cyber myself from time to time but I don't really need to do so.
I don't RP in Illa for the sake of cybering. But sometimes one thing leads to another, so I could partly understand some of the arguments here.
What I don't understand is:
If one of my chars comes in such a situation and both POs agree on that we want to play the scene out (not even in a way that could be called hardcore or something), we just log out and finish that scene somewhere else. What's the problem with that anyway?

Why can't those who want to play out sexual scenes - what way they ever like to play it - just log out of Illa when it comes to it and do it somewhere else, where nobody is responsible for it besides themselve?

Sorry, for my maybe bad English, but it's late and I'm tired and I'm sure I could have pointed it out better if I would have done it in German. But I hope I was able to give my opinion on that like it is.

[Lucian]

@ Pell who seems to have misunderstood my arguments:

Graphic violence is ILLEGAL as well.

#me strikes at the sheep, making its entrials drop out of the sides
#me grabs the entrails and wraps them around the sheep's neck, throttling it in its own blood and filth.

That is just as likely to get me warned by the gms.

ALSO

LEGALLY (fal?) explicit sexual scenes -> Adults Only Rating.

Remember the controversy due to the "Hot Coffee Mod" which was found in GTA? A perfectally innocent game involving shooting policeman and stealing cars.. having a sexual scene!

Now, if we want to leave explicit sexual scenes, we'd need to make sure that adults only can play this game. (Fal, please correct me if I'm wrong).

So we need to have "You agree that you are over the legal age for sexual activity in your country" checks. Which have as much chance of being put in as swish1 winning the Nobel Prize.
-

Now, you seem to say "If it has death, why not sex?"

Let me give an example of a game that has death, the settlers 3. When killed, the settlers disappear and turn into angels which float up. Rating of that game is PG at most.

In the postal series, death is gruesome, and you can urinate on the remains if you so wish. Rating of that game is adult only.

BUT THEY BOTH CONTAIN DEATH!

Its the 'level' of violence which determines stuff.

In Illarion, the worst thing that happens is the blood splatter being shown, and you turn into a ghost. If you roleplay it gruesomely, its illegal.
===

Now what i meant with mechanics is this.

Illarion is a ROLEPLAYING game. Therefore it should be the case that mechanics aid that.

If I'm playing a game, who's goal is to kill things gruesomely, you'd expect the game to actually help you do that. I could play a FPS or dwarf fort or something.

If I'm playing a game, who's goal is to have sex with animated graphics, you'd expect the game to try to help you. You can play [host of adult games and stuff]

On roleplayed violence.

"Graphical" is rather subjective term, and might very well encompass anything related to pain and or serious, roleplayed injury.

According to my personal experience, GAMEMASTER CONTROLLED quest characters are the ones who are most likely to be mutilated, burned alive, blown to pieces or be killed in some horrible, graphical way. Quest characters are used as human sacrifices, killed off in bloody rituals which would now become pointless and or extremely boring under the suggested rules. Sometimes the death has even been quite slow and painful, not because it would have been particularly fun, but because there has been a roleplay-related point to it.

Roleplaying is collaborative storytelling. I've never understood the desire to keep the level of information at the bare minimum even if it's not all PC. It's more fun and interesting, when even insignificant actions are sometimes elaborately and skillfully emoted for the enjoyment of everyone involved, not to mention the actually important ones such as fighting. Fighting is more than just control clicking and descriptions of what happens should be encouraged: as the rules state: It is part of collaborative story telling. The results of the fight thus OUGHT to be roleplayed. Besides, some of the most entertaining fights I have had have been non-engine fights, where the appropriate damage has been described by each involved player. Loads of fun, and even one RP'd death. The roleplaying involved was top-notch, and I will remember that dead lizard unlike 99% of the simple cloudings.

THIS kind of detailed expression is what brings IMMERSION to the game. It makes the game INTERESTING. A quest which ends to the main boss dying to a control click and ending up as a bloodspot would be an anti-climax. I want a #me describing what happens when he is struck down. I want you to #me those bloody injuries your character sustained while fighting the boss. Where would the ability to roleplay come in, if we were to assume that "ctrl-clicking and bloodspots are okay, but descripting injuries or roleplaying the quality of the injury, and thus violence are not"?

For flying spaghetti monster's sake, if your character looses a limb in the fight, and you are ready to roleplay the consequences, it would be AN ENORMOUS TRAVESTY if you would NOT BE ALLOWED TO ROLEPLAY THAT.

Hans: Greetings/Gruesse! That was some fight! How are you?
#Franz looks rather pale, you might notice a bloody bandage around his left arm.
Franz: I lost my hand in the fight yesterday.
Hans. Oh, didn't notice.

Stop dumbing down the game, please. There's no reason to lower the bar to accommodate new players, or then you will see the game turn into less about roleplay and more about accommodation of personas. Quite frankly, making description of graphical violence a violation of a rule would make the game a few levels even more boring and more uninteresting.

Of course, there might be cases where the violence descriptions are "really" overdone, but those cases should be reviewed individually. Naturally, it's easier to just stamp "verboten" on everything without actually judging the effects of those decrees in general.

The bottom line here is that it's a roleplaying game. If you feel uncomfortable, you can discuss with the other player. You cannot be forced into anything. Log out. Then complain to the gamemasters. Making rules which are nothing but generalizations in order to accommodate people who apparently aren't even here sounds rather.. well, you make the judgment.

The "since there is no graphic, it can't be done" mentality must be the most stupid position I have ever seen anyone take on the boards, and in fact goes against the spirit which Illarion has ALWAYS relied on. FYI: The technical side supports the roleplaying, and not the other way around. Please stop with that. You can't sit, you can't run, lay on the ground or throw an apple at anyone any more than you can cyber. It's just words, or in the case of the apple, an apple on the tile next to the other character.

[The Returner]

starting to see some yellow names, i hope for a quick decision

[Harald Hradradr]

Lucian got a point. Well said, man!

[Sundo Raca]

What a fuss over sex.

I blame america and its hypersensitivity.

[The Returner]

I don't understand why this is a big deal. You don't absolutely need to have sex in the game. Having it banned would bring in teenagers interested in roleplaying without illarion needing a legal disclaimer. Plus most of people arguing are the first to support any other staff decision. They said no, deal with it and quit crying about it.

IT IS NOT NESSECARY TO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE IN THE GAME. WE ALL CAN IMPLY YOU HAD SEX OR DO HAVE SEX AMONG MARRIED OR COUPLED CHARACTERS. IF YOU HAVE TO WHISPER ACTIONS AND BE SECLUDED WHY DO IT IN GAME AT ALL. thank you.

[Pellandria]

Returner be quiet allready, I think we are all by now bored of the same flawed arguments vomiting from you OVER and OVER and OVER again.

Lucian made an excellent point here, if people still don't get it its not sex alone, but the whole thing about mature rp in generall, it might be the sexual content that is taken first yes, but it will be not the last.

[The Returner]

Pell, do you honestly want to start personal attacks on a subject thats been so far neutral?

Speaking of flaws how on earth do you know if it "will be last" or not? Please don't speculate.

[Faladron]

We don't need a game. We can perfectly well imply anything that ever happened/happens or will happen to any of our characters.

What would that make us? Fantasy literature novelists.

[Lacy Dracu]

OK, I was thinking a long time about if I should post my two cents or better not, because I know there will be a lot people who won't like to hear it...

First of all: I can understand both sides.



It is true that a well RPed sexual scene can be a part of very nice roleplay and a part of a char's life and developement, just like a romance, his /her normal allday work or what ever. And yes, it is also true, that there shouldn't be a problem with such scenes as long as both POs are adults and agree to it.

But:

who tells you that the PO you are playing with isn't a minor?
Some of you may think they could figure it out but I can tell you I was surprised sometimes when I got to know the age of some people I was playing with. And no, it wasn't CS. But if I only think of the possibility that it could have happened... oh no, better let's not.

Some arguments I read here were about,
checking the age and make clear for all if the char they are playing with is played by a minor or not. Good idea - on the first look.
But again I have to ask, who could control what information they are giving to that check? Even if we implement such a check, who tells you that a 15 year old US-player (no offense, this is only an example), doesn't pretend to be at the age of 21?

I did cyber myself from time to time but I don't really need to do so.
I don't RP in Illa for the sake of cybering. But sometimes one thing leads to another, so I could partly understand some of the arguments here.
What I don't understand is:
If one of my chars comes in such a situation and both POs agree on that we want to play the scene out (not even in a way that could be called hardcore or something), we just log out and finish that scene somewhere else. What's the problem with that anyway?

Why can't those who want to play out sexual scenes - what way they ever like to play it - just log out of Illa when it comes to it and do it somewhere else, where nobody is responsible for it besides themselve?

Sorry, for my maybe bad English, but it's late and I'm tired and I'm sure I could have pointed it out better if I would have done it in German. But I hope I was able to give my opinion on that like it is.

/signed.

[Caecilianus Cathari]

Sex IS violence.

[Cassandria]

I think sexuality is a normal thing in our reallife. Why shouldn’t it be the same in our characters life?
What should our characters do, if they are in love with another character? What shall they do if they are newly-married?
I’m not able to appreciate the problem with these normal things. Go out and you will see people kissing and fondle each other everywhere.

I also think, that those things shouldn’t be described in all “dirty” details. There are so many ways to adumbrate what’s really happening.

There’s no problem when people play thoses scenes (whisperingly) in a private location like a closed house or a solitary place in the forest. Nobody except for the gm and the involved characters will see it there.
And if in worst case another character (maybe a child) comes along, we will notice that and can stop decribing sex. In reality we would also stop fucking, if a child or any other person disturbes.

Sorry, for my bad English, but I used English last in school. I’m sure I could point out my opinion better if the discussion would be done in German, but I hope it’s although understandable.

[Sssari]

What a fuss over sex.

I blame america and its hypersensitivity.

/sighed

[Lucian]

I don't understand why this is a big deal. You don't absolutely need to have sex in the game. Having it banned would bring in teenagers interested in roleplaying without illarion needing a legal disclaimer. Plus most of people arguing are the first to support any other staff decision. They said no, deal with it and quit crying about it.

IT IS NOT NESSECARY TO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE IN THE GAME. WE ALL CAN IMPLY YOU HAD SEX OR DO HAVE SEX AMONG MARRIED OR COUPLED CHARACTERS. IF YOU HAVE TO WHISPER ACTIONS AND BE SECLUDED WHY DO IT IN GAME AT ALL. thank you.

1.) Not everything is meant for everyone.
2.) Common courtesy. The same reason why you don't run around talking in #s either.
3.) Please, stop with the nonsense about bringing in teenagers or whatever. You can offer me NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE that saying "we ban this and that" would have any correlation with increasing or decreasing the amount of teenagers in the game (how large percentage of teenagers you think even bother with the game rules, seriously?).

However, as you can observe from the responses to the "no big deal" there are grown up players who are in fact driven away and displeased when THEY ARE being treated like teenagers. So what you are basically proposing is to annoy the existing players, in order to tap on to some nonexistant resource of RP-interested teenagers who are just waiting to create an account after the "we ban immorality" appears on the rules-section of the game. If you ask me, the kind of people who consider invisible, discrete CS as something which would prevent their participation in a game probably come from circles where witchcraft, magic and role-playing are satanism and thus I'm not really buying your conclusions. On the other hand, a lot more people, myself included appriciate freedom in a game and are highly annoyed when this freedom is being limited on some slippery-slope, patriot act arguments.


You are the one who is crying. The staff are humans and they have a track-record of making decisions sometimes without actually thinking it through. There is also one distinct difference between some of the staff members and 'us' players, a good portion of 'them' don't actually play the game at all. If we don't "cry", how else do you think we can change anything in the game, as we are NOT being heard when the decisions are actually made. If you cannot contribute to the discussion in any other manner than "waah waah, the staff, the staff.. made a decision" then don't do it at all, please.

Why not log out and stuff? Well, why not log out while talking in the tavern and continuing it on the msn? Because then it's not really within the game anymore, and gets to the personal zone. Myself, I understand why some people might not be comfortable with that.

Abuse does not, in itself, justify denial of use. Banning something since someone 'might' abuse it sounds rather stupid to me.

You know, I love the whole "you can, but you don't have to" athmosphere we have traditionally enjoyed here. The situation where the context of the saying or action is also looked, instead of just banning and forbidding things by default. I value the power *I* have to play *MY* character in the game, to play an actual role with broad freedoms to act with the character as a real person would do. Live, prosper, suffer, be in pain, be happy, be lustful, be murderous, be angry, be sad.. anything. Nobody pushes his morals on me as long as I respect my fellow players and play fair. We can actually tell stories together, shape the world and our characters. Some parts are visible to all, others are not.. like any 'real' person would have.

It's actually not about the CS or about the violence. It's about these freedoms being unnecessarily regulated, limited, curtailed and removed by the staff. It's about destroying the things that I love about the game. Restricting the freedom of expression, banning non-distruptive (as in, being courteus and respectful towards your fellow players is not enough anymore) behaviour and having to worry about violating some arbitrary, subjective "moral code" which is very vaguely expressed. And that, for what gain? NOTHING.
NOTHING.
NOTHING.

I value the chance, the option to do such things when those are fitting or something which I want to play. Nobody is forced to do such things, but anyone can when they want to. When I am being courteous and respectful towards my fellow players with my behaviour... no, I don't see why this should be banned from the game.. as it shouldn't.

[Caecilianus Cathari]

It's actually not about the CS or about the violence. It's about these freedoms being unnecessarily regulated, limited, curtailed and removed by the staff. It's about destroying the things that I love about the game. Restricting the freedom of expression, banning non-distruptive (as in, being courteus and respectful towards your fellow players is not enough anymore) behaviour and having to worry about violating some arbitrary, subjective "moral code" which is very vaguely expressed. And that, for what gain? NOTHING.
NOTHING.
NOTHING.

I don't remember this much outrage when rape and torture was banned.

[Julius]

ROFL. Seriously guys.. is cyber that great?

[The Returner]

ROFL. Seriously guys.. is cyber that great?

/signed
It seems everytime the game changes we get an outflux of hippies who lost their rights.
I think these people who are pro-mature content should find a well moderated server on a true commercial mmorpg's roleplaying server and realise just how meaningless this argument is.

I'm honestly sick of this argument. If you don't like the decisions made by people who dedicate their time for free to bring you a free game then please take your unessecary ridicule elsewhere. Seriously, why should illarion cater to people who absolutely need to waste server resources on meaningless acts that they feel, for some odd reason is a right they've earned. I would be surprised and dissapointed if this rule did not stand.

[Pellandria]

First off, returner, all your "arguments" have been shot down by uhm..3 or 4 people allready, you always repeat the same freaking non interresting argument, that can be turned against you just as easily.

So next time you decide to click on that reply button, first think, oh for the gods sake please, ~think~ before you writte something down, because next to these "roflcopter lollazor cyber is so important for you?" your posts are the ones containing the least information, yet are the most annoying, particually because they have not one counting argument.

Allright got that off my chest, now how many more times must we repeat it, its about the fact that they took it away with no reason, no teenager will ever jjoin the game, because he heard that the gm's banned sex and violence out of it, so unless you have any proove how this rule coul even contribuit ONE and just ONE thing to Illarions roleplay, than you might jsut be quiet, the way of illarion should not be taking stuff away and banning people for some reasons.

If we now look at the rule, if it is used what is achieved:
1)There is alot of people annoyed for the simple fact that they are not allowed to play like they are used to be
2)Gm's just found a great way to ban people for the fact that they don't like chars, because this rule could simply apply to almost everything, is a sex joke allready explicit?
3)We are loosing players while not gaining more players, instead of going all mature Illarion will be washed into a wannabe massmorpg where you got sparks and "POW" signs everytime you hit an enemy, is that what we want?

So we gather this, one side thinks their rp will change in any way, if something is taken from the game, that they will almost ~never~ hear nor ~read~?
Can you seriously name me on good reason how this is even possible, are you annoyed by the fact that, for example there will be someone in this world drinking a cola, will this influence your life so much?(Naturally only, if you are not working in a Coca-Cola factory

[Sssari]

Let me tell everyone something. Illa is something special, its the freedom, the world, and the stance it takes on true rping that I simply love. How....does a rule like this support any of those ideas that I think that game has always stride to be known for? I doubt I'd stop playing if this rule started being enforced strictly...I just don't see the purpose for it...at all.

[The Returner]

First of all, pell. I count one person who is vocally annoyed, you. So I suggest you use a link below this post if you have an issue.

1) Thats what happens in a constantly changing game. Sorry to them. I hope they find a happy home elsewhere.
2) The less loopholes the better. Good for them.
3) I highly doubt theres a problem with getting new players.

[The Returner]

Let me tell everyone something. Illa is something special, its the freedom, the world, and the stance it takes on true rping that I simply love. How....does a rule like this support any of those ideas that I think that game has always stride to be known for? I doubt I'd stop playing if this rule started being enforced strictly...I just don't see the purpose for it...at all.

Let me tell everyone something, Ila is not special, its a testbed beta roleplaying game that happens to be free. The game doesn't strive for anything, its not even nor likely will ever be finished. You are free within the rules that can, have, and often do change to attract different players with which the staff can decide if the change is worth it.

The fact that this argument is full of players who have not even experienced this game go through a truely altering change and are this upset over a rule that well could have and may yet be temporary shows that perhaps they have found the wrong game to play.

[Sssari]

Let me tell everyone something. Illa is something special, its the freedom, the world, and the stance it takes on true rping that I simply love. How....does a rule like this support any of those ideas that I think that game has always stride to be known for? I doubt I'd stop playing if this rule started being enforced strictly...I just don't see the purpose for it...at all.

Let me tell everyone something, Ila is not special, its a testbed beta roleplaying game that happens to be free. The game doesn't strive for anything, its not even nor likely will ever be finished. You are free within the rules that can, have, and often do change to attract different players with which the staff can decide if the change is worth it.

The fact that this argument is full of players who have not even experienced this game go through a truely altering change and are this upset over a rule that well could have and may yet be temporary shows that perhaps they have found the wrong game to play.

So...you know of a game....a graphical game, that enforces roleplaying? Cause if there is...I'd love to compare.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

Let me tell everyone something. Illa is something special, its the freedom, the world, and the stance it takes on true rping that I simply love. How....does a rule like this support any of those ideas that I think that game has always stride to be known for? I doubt I'd stop playing if this rule started being enforced strictly...I just don't see the purpose for it...at all.

Always objecting to any curtailment of RP on Illa because like PO Sssari, I agree that is the charm of the game. It doesn't have the greatest graphics but as long as you can RP it, that didn't matter. Even the pro's and minus' that are posted on skills doesn't matter...how many TRUE RP games are around?

I am surprised that some would object to the curtailment of some RP that apparently really doesn't affect them at all. As far as getting more players, it is a possibility Illa could get a lot of children playing IF that is where you want to go with the game... cut out all cybering makes no difference to me, should we cut out also some hospital scenes of the Druids? Those have been probably at LEAST PG rated with the description of wounds/cries of pain etc. The man so drunk walking from the tavern he falls into the river.... is this a scene for children to see?

Anyway, have said my 2 cents, or rather Sssari has said it

[The Returner]

There are several roleplaying servers on games like WoW, and GuildWars that are moderated. Not to mention NWN's 1,expansions, and 2, I've heard good things about DA and other roleplaying shards. Age of conan has an rp enforced servers. Google could help you here.

Illarion is not the only roleplaying game with enforced roleplaying. There are others out there.

[Sssari]

There are several roleplaying servers on games like WoW, and GuildWars that are moderated. Not to mention NWN's 1,expansions, and 2, I've heard good things about DA and other roleplaying shards. Age of conan has an rp enforced servers. Google could help you here.

Illarion is not the only roleplaying game with enforced roleplaying. There are others out there.

Well Ive played wow and GW...and ill tell you...that doesn't mean crap on popular games like that...maybe....25% of the population on those servers...at best actually rp. WoW was horrid...as far as the "RP" servers were concerned. Here...EVERYONE rps...save a few noobs that get culled rather quickly. So...I just don't buy the idea that rping on a mainstream MMO can ever be that awarding.

[The Returner]

Then look into the others. Or even try semi-graphical or text based MUDs where you can be assured a good roleplaying experience.