Rule update / Regeländerungen

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:37 pm

I think that the 'no cybering' rule was suggested in order to cater for a younger group of people, thereby increasing the playerbase.

That's what I think anyway

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:40 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:I think that the 'no cybering' rule was suggested in order to cater for a younger group of people, thereby increasing the playerbase.

That's what I think anyway

I think its just common courtesy. This is a roleplaying game. Roleplaying between two people for the purpose of making love in a mmorpg does nothing for the community and is in no way constructive and is not anything that cant be done on msn or aim or anywhere else then here. read: people wasting space doing stupid things.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:24 pm

Returner stop your trolling around allready and stop wasting space here, if a char is barely allowed to kiss, but on the same time allowed to kill another char than there is seriously something wrong and if it bothers you so much why don't you go rping in an instant messenger, why play a game where rules slowly dimish one rp opportunity after another?

As someone allready said, it bothers noone, atleast if those people who do it aren't in the middle of town and if someone stumbels over them, hell just cover each other up.

Lucian wrote: If the staff has too much time on it's collective hands to start monitoring player behaviour to the point of "you can kiss, but not with tongue", then I humbly suggest you start actively running quests instead of playing nannies.

Given the fact that you need hours, days or even weeks untill you find a "free" Gm this is very well signed, the gm's should care more about quests and entertaiment for players instead of watching and punishing them for something noone is bothered by.

Quest>Big Brother

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:32 pm

Pellandria wrote:Returner stop your trolling around allready and stop wasting space here, if a char is barely allowed to kiss, but on the same time allowed to kill another char than there is seriously something wrong and if it bothers you so much why don't you go rping in an instant messenger, why play a game where rules slowly dimish one rp opportunity after another?

This is not the first game to ever renounce making love while keeping violence intact. It is not a big deal.

Also given the graphics engine, unless you say (graphic death here)

[size=0]#me opens up sir fredericks spleen and spills his gooey chunks of insides all over the green grass and then precedes to chop off his head and stomp on it.
[/size]

/graphic death
Also given the limitation that you dont actually KILL outside of roleplay anyone within this game, as there is always the possibility to be revived.

There is nothing "seriously wrong" with it. Theres something "seriously wrong" with innapropriate mature content in a roleplaying videogame between fantasy races, seek help.

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:33 pm

The Returner wrote:
Hadrian_Abela wrote:I think that the 'no cybering' rule was suggested in order to cater for a younger group of people, thereby increasing the playerbase.

That's what I think anyway
I think its just common courtesy. This is a roleplaying game. Roleplaying between two people for the purpose of fucking in a mmorpg does nothing for the community and is in no way constructive and is not anything that cant be done on msn or aim or anywhere else then here. read: people wasting space doing stupid shit.

Wait, what?

1.) Common courtesy would be not to cyber in public, agreed. By demanding that people stop doing that altogether, you slip into common bigotry. If you don't see it, what is the problem? Common courtesy in your case would not to start telling other people what they can and cannot privately roleplay. I don't need you to patronise me.

If we assume that both persons are having fun, is a fifty-year old guy plays an eighteen year old and cybering, worse than a twenty odd fat nerd playing something else than a twenty year old fat nerd? Or a dude playing a girl? You tell me.

2.) Does nothing for the community? Well, should it? Does killing golems, fishing, chatting with a random person in the tavern or saying "Greetings/Gruesse" and strolling off contribute anything to the community?

This is no collective, you know, so the lack of contribution to the community does not mean it would be bad for the community either. If the players are having fun and enjoying, then isn't this contributing to the community in the form of happier players? Are two people allowed to exclusively have fun together in a non-cybering form which contributes nothing to the community? Please tell.

@Zak
I would be pleased to receive a rational explanation regarding "Why is it suddenly unacceptable for two people to do something together, discretely and privately in a manner which doesn't disturb minors or miners when they are having fun?"

If you don't have such an explanation, then saying out loud would be
appriciated as well.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:36 pm

Heres a simple argument,

Do you think staff wants to see pages and pages of disgusting cyber chat logs if they happen to be looking for a bug?

No whisper saves you there.

EDIT:

also, give a solid argument if you want something. Don't whine. Whining will not give you a priviledge back. Tell me why you cannot get someones AIM or MSN or ICQ or whateverthesmile and do this outside of a game world? Why do you HAVE to cyber in illarion? what benifet does it give YOU?

Do you enjoy having sex with someone you hardly know, between races that dont exist, in a fantasyland with isometric, two dimensional graphics that in no way depict a sexual act, inside an online videogame, and you cannot, for the life of you, do it somewhere else? if so, this is probably the first sign of some mental health issues.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:44 pm

that is really multi cultural:
less violence for the europeans and less sex for the northamericans.
but, what-if?
what if that results in less players for Illarion?

Christopher..Rigden · Post by **Christopher..Rigden** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:44 pm

The Returner wrote:Heres a simple argument,

Do you think staff wants to see pages and pages of disgusting cyber chat logs if they happen to be looking for a bug?

No whisper saves you there.

they can just ignore it... people don't really act very graphically

Ayla · Post by **Ayla** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:45 pm

We'll ignore the fact, then, that almost every GM I've ever known has openly amused themselves and others with "Grabbing popcorn, alerting the others to a cyber-fest, and running off to enjoy it"....

Zak · Post by **Zak** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:48 pm

@Lucian: I say out loud that I don't want to post something concerning this rule in case I might have misunderstood myself (as I am a human like you) and would appreciate it if you people would stop discuss it here now until a final statement was posted.

Questions on other rules are still welcomed though.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:48 pm

... or whateverthefuck ...

hmmm....
defending the new, stricter rules, you might be more blievable, if you could abstain from low level speech?

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:49 pm

oh, I'm sorry. I'm acting out of anger. I will revise.

Christopher..Rigden · Post by **Christopher..Rigden** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:52 pm

The Returner wrote:Heres a simple argument,

Do you think staff wants to see pages and pages of disgusting cyber chat logs if they happen to be looking for a bug?

No whisper saves you there.

EDIT:

also, give a solid argument if you want something. Don't whine. Whining will not give you a priviledge back. Tell me why you cannot get someones AIM or MSN or ICQ or whateverthesmile and do this outside of a game world? Why do you HAVE to cyber in illarion? what benifet does it give YOU?

Do you enjoy having sex with someone you hardly know, between races that dont exist, in a fantasyland with isometric, two dimensional graphics that in no way depict a sexual act, inside an online videogame, and you cannot, for the life of you, do it somewhere else? if so, this is probably the first sign of some mental health issues.

So is killing people...

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:54 pm

Theres a difference between playing a game in which people die, and playing a game that makes absolutely no concessions to inappropriate mature content.

The biggest difference is, to suceed in the game, you have to kill things, or not, but it could be a big portion of the game, and it is implemented.

Come back when theres a specific animation and skill for making love.

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:56 pm

The Returner wrote:Heres a simple argument,

Do you think staff wants to see pages and pages of disgusting cyber chat logs if they happen to be looking for a bug?

No whisper saves you there.

You could first answer the questions I asked (instead of posting incoherent, abusive screaming which serves only to discredit your point of view).

Then again, I presume that reading through the chatlogs would be only useful with a bug-tracking tool on (which requires reproducing the bug on the testserver, or something). Of course, I must admit that I'm mainly guessing regarding the actual functioning of the system, but ignoring it is always an option. Hell, they might even find it to be something funny or interesting (as Ayla pointed out).

As for mental health issues, you are the one getting very personal and fired up in a discussion regarding fictional sexual acts. If you have inhibitions or have not been taking your Zoloft, then please stay quiet. There's no need to get personal here.

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:02 pm

The Returner wrote:Theres a difference between playing a game in which people die, and playing a game that makes absolutely no concessions to inappropriate mature content.

The biggest difference is, to suceed in the game, you have to kill things, or not, but it could be a big portion of the game, and it is implemented.

Come back when theres a specific animation and skill for making love.

Cybering is related to a big portion of the game, it's called roleplaying. Try it sometimes.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:05 pm

Lucian wrote: Cybering is related to a big portion of the game, it's called roleplaying. Try it sometimes.

This kind of roleplaying is in no way what the game was intended for.

I'm through arguing my point, I have enough faith in the staff.

Zak · Post by **Zak** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:05 pm

I don't have mod-rights in this part of the forum but that does not mean you do not have to follow my request.

Therefore, again: Stop discussing here immediately and post only if you have a question on the rules except the cyber-rule.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:12 pm

Zak wrote:I don't have mod-rights in this part of the forum but that does not mean you do not have to follow my request.

Therefore, again: Stop discussing here immediately and post only if you have a question on the rules except the cyber-rule.

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 964#540964

That's some place to put off your stream without derailing / making a general topic go downhill because flaming starts because of one aspect of the topic as a whole.

Anyone who continues this discussion below this post anyway deserves the retard cookie 2008.

Cheers

Youchimitchu · Post by **Youchimitchu** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:13 pm

1. Basic rule
The main goal of Illarion was condensed to one sentence. Cooperative interaction means e.g.:

* Grant others time to type in conflict situations
* Leave room for mistakes of others, commit mistakes by intention yourself
* Do not try to win but try to display your character will all kinds of desires, mistakes, habits,...
* Be responsive to other's roleplay
* Conflicts of the characters must not become conflicts of the players. We're playing together, not against each other

-the above rule goes without saying -

2. Gamemaster
If a GM asks you for informations, you cannot refuse to testify.

- another rule that goes without saying this isnt real life you cant plead the fifth American amendment and get away with it-

3. The World
With this new rule, we want to carve in stone what was custom among GMs. Damien et. al. spent countless hours to describe the background of Illarion. If you want to deviate from the setting or play unsupported stuff, you have to contact a GM beforehand.

- This rule is is a good one but what would be considered unsupported if people dont know they should just contact a gm a simple yet decent rule-

4. Insults
Religious hostile OOC-remarks are considered an insult.

-as long as its ooc it shouldnt be done-

5. Spamming
Abusing the engine to annoy other players with written or created messages is considered spamming. Note this rule applies analogously for the boards!

- and some things take a very long time to learn like music how about turn it into how fishing is let them strum along till they hit a sour note then they have to start over again that way you dont hear -someone- plays the harp with a crash all the time-

7. Out of character (OOC)
Illarion is not a chat room. Use MSN or such instead. Furthermore, usage of OOC-knowledge is not allowed. Also, the articulateness of your character should fit the setting of a medieval fantasy world. No more "hi you buy sword 1.5sp", please!

- i agree with this one -

9. Considerateness
It is not allowed to play scenes, not suitable for minors on Illarion. This covers pornography, very strong/sexual/offensive language, and very strong/gore/disturbing violence.

-regarding this i think if your going to do this ig it should be in areas people dont travel and even though its frowned upon i think for minors its their parents job to make sure they are not cybering not illarions-

10. Player killing
PvP is allowed, explicitly. It has to be considered a part of cooperative roleplaying, though.

- understandable-

11. Powergaming
The rule was made clearer and examples were added. Standing at a deserted place, covering the ocean with fireballs is definatly considered powergaming.

- this is a rule i must ask to look at again covering the ocean with fireballs what if they are properly rped? cause asid form the academy people generally dont like seeing others use magic for some reason aside from the undead not much to practice magic on . now that doesnt mean i want to go to a location and in 5seconds cast enought to use up my mana bar i just want to practice my magic in peace-

12. Multiple Characters
Characters of one player do not know each other and do not follow common goals.

-hmm... yes this rule is trickey i agree with the idea that they cant know each others thoughts stuff like that but to not know they exist?-

17. Forum
The rules of Illarion hold for the boards, analogously.

- understandable-

Punishment and Penalties
Board related violations usually result in restrictions to the board account. However, the game account can be affected as well.

- understandable-

Zak · Post by **Zak** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:22 pm

There should be answers for some of your questions if you read through the thread (I suggest to look at my posts), I will try to answer more when I am back but now I have to do some RL-business.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:28 pm

Now that we got another topic for the cyber one I wanted to ask something else.

Estralis Seborian wrote: Leave room for mistakes of others, commit mistakes by intention yourself

I think this is a bit missleading, I guess it means that a char should not always succeed in his actions, could be intepreted as making failures about the world, roleplay in generall.

Estralis Seborian wrote: 2. Gamemaster
If a GM asks you for informations, you cannot refuse to testify.

Nothing aboutthe RUlechange, but about the Gm abuse as such.
The Gm Abuse is a pretty flawed system.
The one who decides and who is always praised to be a neutral person, is infact someone from the staff and a gm himself, giving the controll to a Gm instead of a real neutral person, defeats the purpose of Gm abuse itself, maybe the Staff should consider taking a player, obviously not someone with quest chars or people who are rumoured to have other benefits from gm's, to be sure that Gm abuse is a true neutral controllunit.
Not to add that it might not be the best choice to ~tell~ a Gm, who complained about him, might cloud the Gm's judgment.

Mairae Auvria · Post by **Mairae Auvria** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:41 pm

I have been in another game that wanted to appeal to minors. Instead of changing the general RP rules for the entire game, the final option was to allow minors but have a tag above their name "minor". The population knew the rules for RP when the minors were in vicinity and it worked well. In turn the minor's guardian also had to agree that not ALL content can be patrolled, that the minor MAY occasionally run across some adult content/violence. As far as I know this has happened once with the "violence" scenario interpreted one way by the "adult" and one way by the "minor".

LifeWonder · Post by **LifeWonder** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:49 am

LifeWonder wrote:
Taeryon Silverlight wrote:I appreciate those rules, but please tell me:

Why is a warrior allowed to run around in the crypt for hours and hours, slashing monsters while a mage may not rp to sit at the shore and throw fireballs out to the ocean?

There is no other way then to use spells stupidly often to gain skill. You can't achieve anything as a mage enginewise without powergaming.
THIS ^.

I sent a PM to a GM and they never answered.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:47 am

I only just read this but I find the fact that people are whinging that they can't cyber is hilarious.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:55 am

AlexRose wrote:I only just read this but I find the fact that people are whinging that they can't cyber is hilarious.

ALEX, I NEED MY LIZARD SEX, MY PARTNER DOESN'T WANT TO PRETEND SHE HAS A TAIL, I NEED ILLARION.

Caecilianus Cathari · Post by **Caecilianus Cathari** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:02 am

AlexRose wrote:I only just read this but I find the fact that people are whinging that they can't cyber is hilarious.

Its because they equate sex to love and cannot express the human condition any other way.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:30 am

While you've added to the rules that people must answer to the gamemasters, for the sake of safety (be there any confusion as to who is a GM or not by newcomers), you might want to add a list of things that GM's will absolutely never ask you. Example: Your password.

Post by **Nitram** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:44 pm

It seems there are a few things unclear my the Considerateness rule was formulated in this way.

We (the society) are forced by law to ensure that it is impossible that minors get in contact with content that is not suitable for minors. Such as cybering. The word "cybering" is pretty unexactly.

It is for cause possible to roleplay sexual actions between two characters in a way that is still declareable as "suitable for minors". But since quite some time there is the tendency that some players play those sexual actions in a way that is descripable with no word but hardcore pornographic.

The society is not able to ensure that minors in the game will not get in contact with those texts. Even if we propose Illarion for 18+, it's still not ensured that only those persons get into the game. And as long as we don't include a secure check that only those persons get into the game (such a check is not possible in a secure way) we have to expect far younger players in the game.

The lawful results of a legal dispute against Illarion for offering sexual content to minors would be really problematic. Not only that it would be the end of Illarion, at least the three management members of the society would get real problems as well.

So to avoid such a situation we changed this rule in the readable way, with the results now known to everyone.

@Aegohl: Very good point, thank you.

Nitram

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:03 pm

Thank you Nitram, Are you also unable to lock the other thread?

EDIT: Thanks.

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Rule update / Regeländerungen

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