Banned!...From towns.

[Lrmy]

Just a random older idea of mine. I'm not sure if it has been suggested by anyone yet. Alright, let's say a character gets banned from town X. The only thing preventing the character from being in that town is the guards, and not always even them. I was wondering if there was a way in town X to ban the character from the NPCs as well, quest and merchant ones. Just pretend the merchants have a list of banned people? This would be another way to keep bad guys out of towns. *shrug*

[Juliana D'cheyne]

I would like the idea as long as the char could still get to the town specific depot, also if there is a recourse to protest the ban ( as long as a reasonable time I see no problem and would be nice to implement )

[Senrin der Ältere]

I remember some thread where this was proposed already and I think Nitters answered that he doesn't want to rescript a NPC everytime some person gets banned or unbanned...

[Joxia Doral]

I've seen that on some other game I used to play, when someone was marked as a criminal none of the NPC shops would sell to or buy from them.
sounds like a good idea.

[Pellandria]

Senrin allready said it, if someone would get banned we the staff needs to go into the serv and script it down there, there is currently no other way to do it.

[Llama]

Dirty fix:

Put a skill "Trollsbane Banning" which the NPCs look for.

If you have more than 0, they don't talk to you.

*wipes the dirt with a cloth*

[AlexRose]

The problem is: How do they get the skill?

Plus uh.. surely that's better done with queststatus and not skill.

[Pellandria]

Maybe saying a certaint word "gives" the skill to anyone standing near, this way the guard captian could just whiser the word to the npc and every guard, which stands around them, get the skill, to erase the skill just say the word and then the name of the char?

[AlexRose]

A. Could be abused.
B. Criminal would have to be caught. They're more likely to be banned when they already managed to escape imprisonment.
C. You'd have to fetch the Captain every time you have a criminal and if he was offline you wouldn't be able to get near the chars again to say this word to them.
D. Unless the Captain said this word in a language like gnomish or something so the other person couldn't understand, criminals would learn the word.
E. The Captain would have to be online to unban you.
F. If there's a chase and there's a few people, Captain would have to be really careful to ban just the criminal and not the catchers, especially if they're running.

Too flawed.

[Juniper Onyx]

Wait a minute!

The solution's easy!

Let's use the magic system we have. Instead of Mages, the 'Governor' of a settlement get's a 'teaching Ban' Glyph or Book. Then he can 'give' or take away, a 'Ban Glyph' to his Guards. New 'Governors' are hard-coded anyway so they can accept the taxes. It wouldn't be more work than now.

The Guards could be given a 'Glyph', when 'used' could direct the 'Ban Spell' at one person, like a magic spell. Glyphs can't be dropped or stolen. But they are given by someone, like a Governor or captain of the guard.

• • 

To negate the effects, any Guard or Governor with the Glyph just 'uses' it again on that person like an on/off switch. It would force the criminal to see the guards, RP his remorse or apology and convince them to remove the ban. Maybe even do Community Service? I see real RP possibilities here.

Each 'Settlement' would have a 'Ban spell' made just for that settlement. That way a 'Really' bad criminal would think twice before recieving Bans from other towns and being locked out there too! That's 5 Ban 'spell' scripts and 5 'NEW' Glyphs. It could be done!



PS - I would really consider having the 'Ban spell' also lock out their depot, and other town services in that town too if they're banned. Governments often 'Seize' assets of criminals they are pursueing. Often its the first thing they do! Nothing else tells a PO that their character 'really smiled up!" then when they can't get to their things in that depot. Not everyone needs NPC Merchants in that town ye know! It would really curb irresponsible player behavior and do the job that 'Banning' is meant to --- keep that Criminal out, denied essential city services such as the Depot, Merchants, maybe even the Stable and Teleporter, regardless if there's one guard or twenty. It also solves the problem that Guards have of not being 'able' to patrol the streets 24/7!

Aren't ye glad I think of these things?

[Azuros]

I like the idea, now the question is, how would it be separate from the magic system? Would it need a magic-like system to be made for it, or would it just be added to the current one and have it not need magic stats, ancient, or skill to cast?

[Juliana D'cheyne]

I would really consider having the 'Ban spell' also lock out their depot, and other town services in that town too if they're banned

That would be fine if the char can get to the depot from somewhere else. IMO taking it to this extreme would negate the fun of the game for the player. I also think if too hard to script, there are many more things needed then this idea, but is something to maybe keep on a wish list.

[Vern Kron]

I -believe- it is possible to do something like this. A person opens their depot, sees whats inside, but can't get it out. And if some one plans to cause trouble in town, wouldn't they store their stuff somewhere else?

[Llama]

*digs up a thread and blows the dust off*

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... highlight=

[AlexRose]

IMO taking it to this extreme would negate the fun of the game for the player.

So don't get banned..

Going to jail negates the fun for the player, what's your point? Banning does NOTHING right now because those people just carry on living in Bane, using town facilities and their punishment is worth nothing. This way they'd be forced to go elsewhere, and I think that's fair enough.

[Pellandria]

A. Could be abused.

Sure, every system could be abused, but I think we all can stop being childish and don't ban a char, because you don't liek the player.

B. Criminal would have to be caught. They're more likely to be banned when they already managed to escape imprisonment.

Sometimes you are simply banned without even being caught or doing something ~wrong~ at all, so yeah the system is somewhat flawed, I guess guards need to reduce their "I ban everyone I dislike" behaviour.

C. You'd have to fetch the Captain every time you have a criminal and if he was offline you wouldn't be able to get near the chars again to say this word to them.

You missunderstood, the word would just enable guards to use the ban command with the npc, you would just need the captain again, if someone quits the guards and you need to take away the skill again.

D. Unless the Captain said this word in a language like gnomish or something so the other person couldn't understand, criminals would learn the word.

If you don't care yes, but ifyou do it right and whisperit noone will learn it, even today mystudentsdon't knowthe wordforthe rune room, or atleast not ig from me, you simply need to take care where they standand there you go.

E. The Captain would have to be online to unban you.
F. If there's a chase and there's a few people, Captain would have to be really careful to ban just the criminal and not the catchers, especially if they're running.

Any guards will do to unban you and everyone with the "ban" skill would be shielded frombeing banned and as we have a way to tie people up now, there would be no difficultieswith that, just bring the criminal to the npc and initiate a ban there, or simply tell the guard who to ban and he will ban this certaint person than, its easy as pie.

I somehow doubt that there wouldbe a "new" magic system just for the purpose of banning, you would need the govenour on at all the time you catch/ban a criminal and you would need to force the criminal to stand still to use the ban, everyone knows how hard this can be if he ever fought with magic without using a wand.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

Going to jail negates the fun for the player, what's your point?

Actually, two of my chars had a very good time in jail and I played them even more then others. My point being... a game for fun needs to be fun for all.

Only being banned in one city with one of my chars, I would say not being able to get to the depot wouldn't be a "hardship" but would keep the char from taking advantage of all the game had to offer, in other words I wouldn't go near the town, if that is what is intended by blocking the depot, then I would say do it. If the intent however is to allow RP to take a natural course ig, possibly the char "sneaking" in town to use the depot etc. then don't block it. Not having "planned" the ban of my char but simply following the RP ig, there was no way to move things to another depot.

Sometimes you are simply banned without even being caught or doing something ~wrong~ at all, so yeah the system is somewhat flawed, I guess guards need to reduce their "I ban everyone I dislike" behaviour.

...and the ban as far as I know on my char hasn't been lifted after a RL year.

I would suggest if this system is in place, have an automatic end date added to the ban so some chars with change of leaders etc., aren't forgotten.

[AlexRose]

In other words, let's make rp opportunities that shouldn't logically be available just for the hell of it. If the authorities of TB know they can block the depots, they're going to do it, they're not going to go "Oh but let's leave them unlocked in case some shady people want to sneak into town and use them". A punishment is a punishment; noone forces you to commit crimes. At least there'll be reason not to for once this way. If you're going to do "shady" business, just don't get caught. But c'mon there should be repercussions; there aren't really any currently because if the po doesn't want their char to get caught and jailed, there's a pretty high probability they won't be.

[Joxia Doral]

But c'mon there should be repercussions; there aren't really any currently because if the po doesn't want their char to get caught and jailed, there's a pretty high probability they won't be.

I fully agree, there should be better repercussions, banning doesnt seem to work at all .
Joxia

[Juniper Onyx]

I agree with Alex here.

The 'Town' depots were 'bought' or provided for the 'town' and it's citizens. Towns are 'assumed' to have more people than just the players in them such as the NPC's. Depot's are there because the 'town' wants them there. If the 'Town' wants more or less, they simply request it/ buy more, and it happens.

With this in mind, the "recognized' Government of the town has every right to restrict them to 'criminals'. Services like the Stables and Teleporters are also 'given only to settlements' and likewise, taxes from those go to that 'government'. The Government 'owns' them for the good of it's people, not criminals.

According to the Building Rules, towns also have the right to 'unrestricted' development' of buildings and services for Public Works. They are 'public', but owned by that Town. Markets, Walls, Gates, Wells, etc.

There are many depots and 4 other settlements for a character to go to. "Fun" isn't ruined, just a 'punishment' enforced in one town. How come no-one ever thinks of the 'Victims' of these criminals? There "Fun" was destroyed with the crimes! Why is it we always think of the 'Criminals' fun being restricted? No, there is plenty of 'Fun' for the criminals elsewhere. We have to think of the 'townspeople' first, who are usually peaceful crafters and traders.

A Settlement only remains a 'settlement' if the characters within take 'ownership' (Citizenship) and pride in their town. They set up Laws, that they wish everyone to abide by. A Community is formed. Disturbances of behavior contrary to the peace and harmony those citizens desire is what makes a 'criminal' in that town. Not all Acts are illegal in all towns. However, settlements (Through Laws and Government type) have every right to 'maintain' the 'status Quo' and benefits of a peaceful town, to maintain the "FUN" of all! There should be benefits to peaceful behavior in town, and consequences to crime. Maintain "Fun" for the many, not the one!

Putting characters in Jail sounds easy, but is actually hard when Guards aren't around, are too weak, or unable to catch a criminal. Players of Guards have very little fun doing it because there are so many ways 'Veteran' criminal players can 'escape', be very difficult, kill Guards or even 'return' when Guards aren't around.

This is a fantasy RP Game, so let's make the 'Guards' job easier, and put actual consequences to Crime. Let's use the Magic system in a good way, and make it 'fun' for everyone. No need for 'Mana' or Magic skills for this. Fun for the Guards, because now they have "Real" ability to enforce the Laws! Fun for the citizens, because now they know the Laws can be 'enforced' without constant battles and capture attempts! Fun for the criminals too, because they begin to RP their way around the Ban effects (hiring people to use merchants, move away, etc.), or RP a way to remove it (Remorse, Fine, community service, blackmail, etc.). Actually, this will also create 'smarter' criminals than just the 'hack'n'slashers'!

Even though most crime is by Newbie's, because of 'Newbie" ignorance, they should be immune to the spell. If they have an (N), they should be immune to give them time to learn to RP, learn the Game, and understand consequences and such. They usually aren't a real threat anyway, just annoying.

I really think this will work to preserve the most fun for the most people, and gives us something else to use than 'posting' on the forums or trying to put a character in Jail. It's a nice 'Middle' punishment with infinite RP possiblities.

[Fianna Heneghan]

How come no-one ever thinks of the 'Victims' of these criminals? There "Fun" was destroyed with the crimes! Why is it we always think of the 'Criminals' fun being restricted? No, there is plenty of 'Fun' for the criminals elsewhere. We have to think of the 'townspeople' first, who are usually peaceful crafters and traders.

I want to point out that a well played crime is fun for the victim too. The whole point is to roleplay, not necessarily to win in a conflict. Because you play a peaceful (somewhat) trader/crafter and you don't enjoy roleplaying the losing end of a conflict doesn't necessarily mean that sentiment translates to the community as a whole.

I would oppose a measure that further limits the roleplay in town. There is more than enough crafting "roleplay." I think any measure taken to ban characters from town should be randomized. I don't think the NPC guards should be infallable. If "criminals" have the possibility to be banned, then I think that all citizens and even leaders of the town should run the risk of not being recognized by the NPC guard as safe to enter town.

This proposal sounds to me like a proposal to keep crafters in towns and send the actual roleplay elsewhere because it interferes with the powergaming.

[Vern Kron]

No, that is not what this is intended at all. It is a way for towns to act like towns. There is no npc guards that prevent entry. It is just like saying "Hey Eliza. This man has commited a crime, don't sell to him."
"Ok, I understand."
And then locking the depot.
These items and people are created for the good of the community, ya know? And they wouldn't serve or be allowed to be used, by criminals who acted against the community.

So basically, here is what would happen. Those secret depots around in the wild will be used by who they were intended to be used by, the criminals actually can't just pull weapons from their depots, and by potions to heal with from npc's in town, to then cause further havoc, because everyone knows that person X is a criminal. He can still come into town, harass citizens, and things, but can't buy stuff or use the depots there. Basically, two enemies won't become friends to make a quick buck.

[Juniper Onyx]

How come no-one ever thinks of the 'Victims' of these criminals? There "Fun" was destroyed with the crimes! Why is it we always think of the 'Criminals' fun being restricted? No, there is plenty of 'Fun' for the criminals elsewhere. We have to think of the 'townspeople' first, who are usually peaceful crafters and traders.

I want to point out that a well played crime is fun for the victim too. The whole point is to roleplay, not necessarily to win in a conflict. Because you play a peaceful (somewhat) trader/crafter and you don't enjoy roleplaying the losing end of a conflict doesn't necessarily mean that sentiment translates to the community as a whole.

I would oppose a measure that further limits the roleplay in town. There is more than enough crafting "roleplay." I think any measure taken to ban characters from town should be randomized. I don't think the NPC guards should be infallable. If "criminals" have the possibility to be banned, then I think that all citizens and even leaders of the town should run the risk of not being recognized by the NPC guard as safe to enter town.

This proposal sounds to me like a proposal to keep crafters in towns and send the actual roleplay elsewhere because it interferes with the powergaming.

I don't know many players who want to RP to 'lose' to a criminal. That just doesn't make sense.

As for Guards, who said they are NPC? Not anyone here. We're all talking about 'player' Guards which the Governor hires and empowers with the Glyphs.

Your opinion about Powergaming 'crafter's' is false. Powergamer's will thrive no matter what you do with criminals, and therefore has nothing to do with this. This whole thread is about Roleplay, not engine-play.

There have been many characters that would rather not fight at all, prefering to RP in town. These are the true 'victims'. To make rash judgements about their motives has no place. The simple fact is that punishments now just are a joke.

[Fianna Heneghan]

These items and people are created for the good of the community, ya know? And they wouldn't serve or be allowed to be used, by criminals who acted against the community.

In my opinion, these items were created for the good of the roleplay community. How does it enhance the roleplay to discourage players from coming to town? Most evenings in my play times Trolls Bane is pretty empty. Knowing that there would be no one but skill grinding crafters in town doesn't motivate me to log in and play.

There are few enough roleplayers ig, so I repeat my opposition to forcing them out. If the skill grinders don't like being forced to roleplay, they can go someplace where they won't be interrupted. There are more than enough of those places in the wild too.


Edit:
@ Juniper Onyx

I know lots of people that would be willing to RP losing to a criminal. I have done it many times myself. I'm sorry that doesn't make sense to you.

The discussion was about using the NPCs to block players from shopping in town. I'm saying, randomize it. If some characters can be painted by a player guard to be unrecognized by the NPCs, then all characters should share a portion of the risk that the NPCs might not do business with them as well because of mistaken identity.

Fianna doesn't fight. I think I know something about roleplaying a peaceful character. If it's about roleplay, then I have to wonder how forcing players out of towns will help that in the long run.

[Vern Kron]

First, I would like to say, the good of the roleplay community is what this is for. A person who is a jerk, doesn't get served. You steal from the town, or something, you don't get served by the town. Any other way makes no sense. Second, there is fails to this system. Anyone can be 'blocked' and it requires a person. Third, I doubt that the -lack- of tools will prevent people coming from town, but would rather just prevent them from being as effective. Fourth, this gives players a chance to be smugglers. Fifth, I like to count and I know that this won't be used on everyone.

And there is still chance for human error. It makes sense rp wise for criminals not to be served. Maybe there is some person that does sketches of wanted people, and thus they are well known. Who knows. But any criminal will not be -forced- to leave. It just adds a consequence to bad behavior. You can't buy things. So, you buy from elsewhere and then come over. It adds a grudge and real reason to not want to be banned.

[Fianna Heneghan]

First, I would like to say, the good of the roleplay community is what this is for. A person who is a jerk, doesn't get served.

That sounds kind of personal. Maybe you should address that issue individually instead of proposing a sweeping change to the game.

And there is still chance for human error. It makes sense rp wise for criminals not to be served. Maybe there is some person that does sketches of wanted people, and thus they are well known.

So, this could be randomized? The NPC might mistakenly think it was a picture of Artimer and refuse to serve him? That would be alright. I don't think the NPCs should be infallible.

Who knows. But any criminal will not be -forced- to leave. It just adds a consequence to bad behavior. You can't buy things. So, you buy from elsewhere and then come over. It adds a grudge and real reason to not want to be banned.

This adds to the roleplay how?

[Vern Kron]

Pretty much anyone who gets banned is seen as cruel from the town's eyes. Usually.

Human error as in the guard who is doing this. Often, guards are confused as to who does the crime and who is trying to stop it. I am sure you have seen that on the forums and IG before.

Randomization like that with the npc's is not so wise. The npc's should just follow orders of the guard, and hope the guard didn't make a mistake. Not that Artimer buys anything from npc's around Troll's Bane anyway. Also, how is a depot able to understand who not to serve? The guard would lock or take it away.

Grudges IG add plenty of roleplay. People being bitter, blackmailing, all that stuff is what some characters live for. Others don't. Its a personal opinion.

[Fianna Heneghan]

I strongly disagree. Adding bitterness to characters you already don't want around will lead to a cycle that will create more complaining and whining in the long run. If you wouldn't want to run the risk of it happening to your character, then I don't think you should suggest it happen to another player's character. I don't think the player controlled guards should be banning anyone otherwise.

Anything that is going to lead to less fun and more whining is simply not a good idea, in my opinion. That's the last word I'm going to say on the subject.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

Anything that is going to lead to less fun and more whining is simply not a good idea, in my opinion. That's the last word I'm going to say on the subject.

I won't say anymore either but this is what I have been trying to say previously.

[Lrmy]

I don't see how strict punishments for criminals would be less fun. We need some reality in the game in order to play it as a medieval game. In medieval times, you had very few or no people who were openly criminals or murders in most towns. A good way to fix the problem of having lots of criminals playing...poorly..is to make being a criminal something that isn't always fun. The problem with most criminals is the POs don't see the line between their own fun and the fun of the person being robbed. There are many more good players than bad that don't really want to play a fighting game and only stick to the crafting section. Now, they should expect to be robbed if they are crafting in the middle of the night in game, but when crafting in broad daylight with 3 other people, there shouldn't be a huge fear of being robbed.

MAKE CRIME notPAY!