Illarion.org

its true, I remember now that anouther character freed himself infront of me.. in a most painful manner. >.< But it is possible.

Honestly, does anyone care?

Just RP whatever would make you the happiest. No one will blame you if you don't do it the "official" way, as long as you roleplay. Jeez.

Signed. If it makes sense, fits the character, etc. it shouldnt be a problem. The gods are flakey anyway.

Obviously I did or I wouldnt have ask. And if its not important to you then pay no attention to it. (( meh, hushed beat me ))

Thank you Salathe.

I didn't read any posts except for the first one - and just wanted to say my opinion of this is just rp whatever you want - there are no game rules I'm pretty sure about how to rp the bonds of moshran

a friend of mark strongarm's was released from the holds of dark followers by a priest alone though it was rped into a kind of pilgrimage thing that was cool

LifeWonder wrote:Honestly, does anyone care?

Just RP whatever would make you the happiest. No one will blame you if you don't do it the "official" way, as long as you roleplay. Jeez.

Thats crap, everyone who follows moshran and suddendly prays should need to carry heavy consequences, it makes ~no~ sense that a god like moshran would just easily let one of his prayrs go free, if you look at his history then you will see that he was allready betrayed once, so why should he let anyone free, just rping yourself free without some kind of disadvantage is..simply bad rp and its kinda sad to see that GM's don't interfere there, they should represent gods much more often instead of demons or something else, after all we have a a high number of mages and those know that they use the "gods" powers, so they are represented almost everyday, yet they are treaded downright poor, would love to see Nargun spreading some chaos here and there, maybe tryieng to get friends or even loved ones to hate each others, there is so much to work with.

I would suggest that after reading the information on Moshran provided for the history of the game, that coming up with any RP plan fitting the history is fine. Not that your plan would be like others, each one due to circumstances would be different ((and leaves lots of RP options for others also)).

((another good avenue is to search the forum for old threads...may also give ideas))

Salathe wrote:i read mixed opinions here. So i will write shortly

YES YOU CAN.

Dravish broke his bonds

i repeat

DRAVISH broke his bonds.

If dravish can do so, anyone can.

how? im not so sure how, but you definately can.

And we also have a character who can talk and cast things while in the form of a ghost.

Everyone can!

The gods give a shit about the small smut that is called Gobaith...

Honestly, I am happy that somebody at least *thinks* about such things as religion. I am pretty sure the majority of characters follows no god at all and a huge share of players thinks that atheism is a valid ideology.

To the original question: Do what you think is right after having a look at the recommended material. No GM will ban you or let your character explode (well, not this time, maybe when we feel like ) or whatever.

GM-played god characters are beyond discussion due to the fact that no GM is able to play a god. We're too lousy players to do that . And we cannot represent the powers of gods with our GM-tools. All we can do is to send omens and show results of divine intervention.

I see the pantheon of Illarion's gods much like the way I see the pantheon of Greek Gods. I think that they are very similar in the overall schema and themes they represent, and so I see the Illarion gods in much the same way as very "human" in their persona as well. They are very powerful, but are limited in where they are or what they know at a given time. They are not infallible. The gods can't be omnipotent and omnipresent and just know everyone who's praying to them who's not.

I think how much a follower is "bound" or even noticed by their god is proportional to how much power he's been given. A god would be very involved with his major "generals" and may know their every move, but as you go further down the chain of command, the rest of the followers are just little pawns that are barely noticed by the god. They have little to no power that may not even originate from the god personally. If any of them disobey or desert, I'm sure someone else higher in the chain of command will think of how to take care of it, and the god won't personally bother to get involved with these pawns.

And then you seriously ask yourself why noone ever takes any gm monster seriously?

Really estralis what you just said is freaking strange, with your gm tools you can do almost everythign rp wise, monster, sounds, lightshows, items, hell everything that is possible ig can be done by GM's and as you watch people anyway why not intervere here and there?

Its no wonder the number of people believing in gods, even among mages is growing smaller and smaller and noone else believes in gods, yet there are endless miracles, I guess we don't want constant gods chars around, but toying around with mortals is surely reasonable for some gods.

Btw. why do demons, mosnters and what not have such a big interrest in gobiath, if none of thegods even care?

Pellandria wrote:And then you seriously ask yourself why noone ever takes any gm monster seriously?

Really estralis what you just said is freaking strange, with your gm tools you can do almost everythign rp wise, monster, sounds, lightshows, items, hell everything that is possible ig can be done by GM's and as you watch people anyway why not intervere here and there?

Its no wonder the number of people believing in gods, even among mages is growing smaller and smaller and noone else believes in gods, yet there are endless miracles, I guess we don't want constant gods chars around, but toying around with mortals is surely reasonable for some gods.

Btw. why do demons, mosnters and what not have such a big interrest in gobiath, if none of thegods even care?

Because mages can do most of the things. And there aren't any super-mega special effects that GM tools do.

And I think "god Effect" would be something like collapsing a mountain, or blowing up a huge town... nothing that can be done in a blink of an eye

Hadrian_Abela wrote:blowing up a huge town...

I like that. Quest pl0x?

pharse wrote:

Hadrian_Abela wrote:blowing up a huge town...

I like that. Quest pl0x?

I vote Caelum

Hadrian_Abela wrote:

pharse wrote:

Hadrian_Abela wrote:blowing up a huge town...

I like that. Quest pl0x?

I vote Caelum

I vote Zzyathis.

Oh wait, you said HUGE...

Oh wait, you said TOWN..

Okay, nevermind.

Actually they already removed Zzyathis So guess Caelum would be the most logical choice now

That was due to inactivity though, so it's irrelevant.

Hehe, why always destruction? Powers of gods could be...

• Change feelings
• Shift the whole world in terms of physical laws
• Predefine future
• Change the past and memories of everyone
• Reverse time
• Create a new race

In the past, I used effects that were not supported technically. I am glad the majority of players cooperated. Some didn't and there is no way to force them technically. So, besides common tricks, a GM can do nothing a well skilled mage cannot do. Spawning monsters and do a lightshow isn't that divine, you know...

Pellandria, if you state that people don't believe in the gods because they see no signs of them, that's a bit cheap. How many signs do you see from Jahwe/Allah/Vishnu/Odin/... in RL? Nevertheless, people believe in them, even in our modern world. And Illarion is not supposed to be modern. But I agree, the Illarion gods are not present enough in terms of temples or cults, but that should result in a call to the players, not to the GMs to log in as character Nargun and make friends .

To the whole god intervention stuff:

They are not like this evil christian God, who destroys whole towns and turns the earth in a big aquarium. They are more like the old greeks gods.

I will just take Ronagan as an example.

Sometimes personally appears in disguise and helps honorable thieves out of dangerous situations, or renders them invisible when they need it most. Likes to appear as a second thief accidentally doing the same "run", giving the other one hints and tips.

That is written on the HP. The gods don't have to make a big bang boom, they don't even have to introduce themself as a god.

Lets not bring real life religions into this, else you may get flamed Jupiter. Just saying.

In any case, temples are being built, and each God has servants for them at their disposal. Ushara has golems, Bragon dragons, and so forth. They may be in different forms as well, as a human, or a ghost that tells stories, or a flame, or so one, but they have -servants- to do this. They are much to busy doing whatever they do to care, unless something truely odd happens, or the mortals have discovered something or did something that interests or offends them. Such as a place that was originally unreachable by the Gods but reachable by servants or mortals or people who have been kidnapped by certain dark creatures. Basically, the GM's are volunteers that rely upon the rp skills of those around them. How many times has your character completely ignored the rain? How about the temperature? Its summer IG I believe, and people wear fur. Lets try and hammer out our rp problems within the confines of the basic system, before we go demanding that the GM's act as Gods, which some of them may not even be comfortable with doing, and some may be unable to do. You are asking quite a bit from the gm's and they are humans, like you and me.

So in the end, there are a few points we have made through this thread.

All the Gods IG are -real- IG, and almost all of them are present.. they just may not care what you are doing.

The gm's don't play Gods, they play their servants, and that depends upon the -players- to react to it.

Atheism is not an option IG, but not worshipping is... though I think if that happens, Cherga lets you wander as a ghost forever, see?

(( Reason being is that the Gods are appearently acting IG, but we as players know they aren't because the GM's don't do that kinda stuff ))

And -no one- is forced to do -anything- IG, rp wise as long as it makes sense. So go ahead, have your character break the bond with Moshran. One character had a visable mark on him and then lost that mark by losing the limb it was on. A different one was clensed by a priest. So think up creative ways to do it, within reason.

lets get a freakin moshran quest going to the bonerealm and have some serious mass death and mummified body curses!

no wait, moshran would turn everyone into sheep and teleport them to a den of wolves

Estralis Seborian wrote:Hehe, why always destruction? Powers of gods could be...

• Change feelings
• Shift the whole world in terms of physical laws
• Predefine future
• Change the past and memories of everyone
• Reverse time
• Create a new race

How about sentient weapons using people instead of people wielding weapons?

Pellandria wrote:
Btw. why do demons, mosnters and what not have such a big interrest in gobiath, if none of thegods even care?

Because unless the GM playing them hadn't thought it out, demons, monsters, etc.. have something to gain by fucking with mortals.

Ogres are in contest with humans for land and food.

Mummies hate the living as part of their curse.

Demons are creatures of chaos and hatred who enjoy the pain and suffering of mortals.

Gods, on the other hand, have important stuff to do, and, in fact, if you read the history of Illarion and make some guesses it makes a lot of sense that they're busy. Some point in the far flung past of Illarion Madrook Nahan sent a servant that royally fucked up the gods and made a mess of the world of Illarion. Moshran was previously the brightest and strongest of them and even he's a mess. Madrook is still at large, so wouldn't it be reasonable that the gods are preparing for Madrook's next attack/guarding portals to Madrook's realm/maybe even invading?

Even Moshran would be torn when he considers the second coming.

And you think he's going to care when some puny, useless, mortal chants a prayer to someone else?

Don't get me wrong. The gods have pet projects and interests and causes they champion, but those come second to the survival of their creation. It's no use answering prayers, cursing sinners, and committing acts of divine intervention when tomorrow it could all be in flames.

Besides, it's always when you put on god mode that the game starts to get boring. A smart god spends his resources carefully. The smart god sends the bolt of thunder that inspires the dying paladin to stand for one last battle, or the gentle breeze that brings with it the smell of perfume that reminds a man on the brink of suicide of his one true love, or the ashes and sand that dries the tongue of the traitor as he walks the desert.

As for those who try to pull off atheism in Illarion, the gods have left enough evidence in Illarion to prove their existence. Priests display miracles, there are things leftover from godly conflicts/happenings, such as the mummies who were cursed by Cherga for want of attaining immortality, etc..

It's a good thing we have people saying nicely OOC that atheist characters don't make a lot of sense. Some people get mad when you call their characters dumb for being godless.

P.S.
M05R4n = Pwnage

all strange happenings on gobiath are because of the mana well

Salathe wrote:all strange happenings on gobiath are because of the mana well

I thought it was because err...there is more mana on Gobaith because of something that happened long ago.

I WANT MORE INFO.

Aegohl wrote: Gods, on the other hand, have important stuff to do, and, in fact, if you read the history of Illarion and make some guesses it makes a lot of sense that they're busy. Some point in the far flung past of Illarion Madrook Nahan sent a servant that royally fucked up the gods and made a mess of the world of Illarion. Moshran was previously the brightest and strongest of them and even he's a mess. Madrook is still at large, so wouldn't it be reasonable that the gods are preparing for Madrook's next attack/guarding portals to Madrook's realm/maybe even invading?

Actually, as far as I know about the history, isn't Madrook the servant of the "Unnamed Enemy" of the Elder Gods, and whom was already killed by Moshran? I think you mean the "Unnamed Enemy" is still at large. I'm sure I'm right cause I know the story like the back of my hand, unless there's something in the new mortals' section of the history, which I haven't read yet.

Anyways I mention this to you all because knowing the background story is relevant to the Legends Of Illarion experience. What? No, this isn't a shameless commercial for my game!

As for those who try to pull off atheism in Illarion, the gods have left enough evidence in Illarion to prove their existence. Priests display miracles, there are things leftover from godly conflicts/happenings, such as the mummies who were cursed by Cherga for want of attaining immortality, etc..

As far as atheism, I think it's still a valid belief, because all the miracles and magical happenings are more of just evidence of superhuman powers and perhaps entities that possess those powers. But it can easily be confusing for mortals and difficult to differentiate which miracles are attributed to to who and what because powers can always overlap. Then there's also bogus gods which some minorities could believe in, and over time many religions could become questionable in the eyes of the people.

Then even for the people who accept the fact that there are those exclusive 11 persons walking around with superpowers, they may not necessarily equate their powers with being "divine" or a "god", especially when there's not just 1, but 11 people with similar powers. They could just as easily believe they are just super powerful mages, or a prophet of some other entity. You can't really say that "miracles" are evidence of "divinity" to people in a world where dragons and healing powers and walking undead are commonplace occurances. Even when gods do appear, it's probably rare and to a small audience, and word of it just spreads as a rumor that not everyone may believe.

For us, the religions seem more definitive because we have all the info from an OOC view, but in the view of the characters, I think the 11 are just more of the "mainstream" beliefs that everyone's heard of, and not so much as difinitive proof of divinity. So atheism in Illarion is probably more like how a mortal might say "I don't believe those 11 ARE gods" and not so much as saying "I've never heard of those 11 that other people call gods".

/signed @Dyluck

Dyluck wrote: Then even for the people who accept the fact that there are those exclusive 11 persons walking around with superpowers, they may not necessarily equate their powers with being "divine" or a "god", especially when there's not just 1, but 11 people with similar powers. They could just as easily believe they are just super powerful mages, or a prophet of some other entity. You can't really say that "miracles" are evidence of "divinity" to people in a world where dragons and healing powers and walking undead are commonplace occurances. Even when gods do appear, it's probably rare and to a small audience, and word of it just spreads as a rumor that not everyone may believe.

the elfs do nearly so, the 11 arents gods in theirs eyes, they are holy ancestor, but no gods

also "the five" are seen more as elements, powers, not ever as persons / as gods

Djironnyma wrote:

Dyluck wrote: Then even for the people who accept the fact that there are those exclusive 11 persons walking around with superpowers, they may not necessarily equate their powers with being "divine" or a "god", especially when there's not just 1, but 11 people with similar powers. They could just as easily believe they are just super powerful mages, or a prophet of some other entity. You can't really say that "miracles" are evidence of "divinity" to people in a world where dragons and healing powers and walking undead are commonplace occurances. Even when gods do appear, it's probably rare and to a small audience, and word of it just spreads as a rumor that not everyone may believe.

the elfs do nearly so, the 11 arents gods in theirs eyes, they are holy ancestor, but no gods

also "the five" are seen more as elements, powers, not ever as persons / as gods

If you give offerings for aide and worship them for salvation, then they are a god. That is exactly what a god is. So, unless a character never looks to the gods for salvation or aide through offerings, then they can look at them as elements or whatever I guess.

elves dont searching "salvation" they seem their life as a travel for cognition - for knowledge and wisdom witch they must found in the life, witch cant given by the five or anyone else - if they have enough cognition for this life they will gone the "next step" on their travel - left her life as a elf wit her immortal soul, think some time about it to get than reborn as a cat or a fish e.g. to collect more cognition...

elfs also dont pray directly for aid from the five - a elf would never say "oh plz u 5 give me a uber-sword to kill these bad undeeds plz!", a elf would more pray for enough wisdom to bring the life back in balance

you maybe think that is the same, but it isnt - firstly elfs see the responsibility for her life an all thinks witch happen in their life by them self an not by any god/ any power

second, elfs the the five not as personality witch are "friendly" or "fair" - they see them as the elements of everything, witch hold the world in balance - a elf would say a human "god" like Malachin is just a part of the five, like the human himself is a part and the elf himself....

Its hard for me to explain that in english - but maybe you read that laste post there, it will help you a bit to understand

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hp?t=23233