Death is Serious Business

[Llama]

After reading the thread in the general board, I figured out that we need a SERIOUS punishment for dying in a player-to-player fight.

Now that we have the 'coup de grace', you don't HAVE to kill the person, so lets make being clouded (by a player) more serious.

Here are some of the ideas I have:

I) For a certain period of time (5 hours spent IG? more?) you are unable to learn anything from skilling. If you log out and in again, you still have to spend the 5 hours. This gives a chance for roleplaying, and is quite a punishment in my opinion.

II) For a certain period of time, the player is unable to do any actions that need food. So the person can't work, can't craft, and won't regain any health. This is a more serious punishment.

III) Player loses an ability point from the highest ability he has. Gains them back only if they spend an amount of time without dying again.

IV) Player drops all items, and armor gets destroyed. This is a 'griefish' punishment, and will make a lot of players fear death... a lot.

I'm open to more ideas.... go on.

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SPAMMY ADDED: Wooot 400th topic!

[Azuros]

I like ideas I-III, IV I'm not so fond of.

[Jupiter]

I like ideas I-III, IV I'm not so fond of.

signed

[Vern Kron]

Unfortunately Hadrian,
This kills most fighters, and anyone who happens to be caught in town with a golem. It would also drive away noobs. I had to calm a newbie down after a golem wandered around and then followed him for a -long- ways.

[Azuros]

I wonder, is there anyway to keep characters with a "(N)" from suffering through the death penalties if they -were- implemented?

[Llama]

Now that we have the 'coup de grace', you don't HAVE to kill the person, so lets make being clouded (by a player) more serious.

That will hurt people who get killed by players ONLY.

So now you can threaten people for something SERIOUS, and make getting PKed much more serious, so no more stupid fights.

ADDED: @ azuros. Yes something like that is possible.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

The last is just making things worse if a player is not RPing due to the fear of their char's loss of skill etc.. I would definitely not like the last one. The others no problem.

I would also suggest either keeping the PK system as it is or the game have no PK at all rather then change how it works for players.

[Fooser]

Yeah because people want to be scared when they play a game

[Nitram]

The other possibility, Fooser, is to perform large scaled admonishment sessions for inappropriately roleplay. But thats constandly needed in that game anyway I guess.

[Shingo]

I'd say implement i through iv.

[Kevin Lightdot]

I think Adrian needs to remember that a game is made for fun.

Yay okay I just got owned by some random german and now I have to spend 5 hours finding people that will talk to me.

Okay some people don't fear death and that's quite lame but this is waaaaaay too harsh IMO.

Maybe you don't get into trouble with your chars much but some people do.

[HolyKnight]

Yes and iv will result in even more of those rare items never seeing the light of day from a depot I do not like that idea.

I like the idea of major skill loss for a long duration of time but you DONT have to reskill to regain it you just have to wait the tediously long time for getting your arse pwn'd.

I like the idea of not being able to skill for a certain period of time. However, people should still be able to regenerate health in case they are attacked by some newb or a random NPC. (II.)

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I think a prolonged nerf of skills along with the penalty of not being able to skill is a hefty penalty. To add to that perhaps after being ghosted you are paralyzed that way n00bs or criminals just cant walk off after being resurrected. Not sure about that idea just a thought

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Now I am pretty sure some people will complain that this is crap because now certain PO's with grudges against other PO's will just start hacking them. If they break any game rules doing this just report them. Otherwise if your character has a grudge against another character that is an EXCITING thing. If you get pwn'd perhaps you should learn to not make certain people angry

[Kevin Lightdot]

learn to not make certain people angry

Isn't that what rp is for?

[Llama]

I think Adrian needs to remember that a game is made for fun.

Yay okay I just got owned by some random german and now I have to spend 5 hours finding people that will talk to me.

Here's the thing. If you got PKed by someone, there would have been a valid reason for that.

If there wasn't a gm could easily remove the penalty for you.

If there is, then it was a last resort sort of thing. If a person wants to rob you he can threaten you. If a person wants to train with you he can just beat you and knock you out, no harm done.

The thing is, death (look at real life death), needs to be something FEARED.

[Keikan Hiru]

[...] a gm could easily remove the penalty for you.

With "GM" you prolly mean Nitram, none of our GMs could remove such a scripted 'feature' in the blink of an eye.
It probably takes longer to check if your request is valid, than for the effect to wear off.

If you really want to make death worse, which you should think over again, you could aswell simply prolong the current penalty of reduced attributes.
These hinder your character alot already.

[Llama]

With "GM" you prolly mean Nitram, none of our GMs could remove such a scripted 'feature' in the blink of an eye.

Since it could be done as a long-time-effect, you could easily give the gms an item to remove it.

If you really want to make death worse, which you should think over again, you could aswell simply prolong the current penalty of reduced attributes.
These hinder your character alot already.

But that's not really something to 'fear' in my opinion. Also I want something.. 'special' for pvp fights.

[Fooser]

The other possibility, Fooser, is to perform large scaled admonishment sessions for inappropriately roleplay. But thats constandly needed in that game anyway I guess.

Yeah and most of the people who go around killing are immature/idiots (if you haven't noticed that by now) -- why punish people for what they do?

[Nitram]

Because proper roleplay is a requirement to play Illarion?

[Fooser]

Are you going to be checking to make sure everyone RP's their character eating 3 meals a day, going to the bathroom, etc?

If someone is injured, it's their job to do it that way, if they get killed and pretend nothing happened, then do something. Why is there a need to do all of this?

[Llama]

If someone is injured, it's their job to do it that way, if they get killed and pretend nothing happened, then do something. Why is there a need to do all of this?

So people will avoid situations where they could get killed.

Its much easier to just put somethign in the game-engine then to check reported players ect... because reporting players usually turns into an OOC war (remember kallahorn Vs trollsbane?)

This way people will be forced to take death seriously. If you already roleplay a fear of death, you probably won't get killed so often.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

If someone is injured, it's their job to do it that way, if they get killed and pretend nothing happened, then do something. Why is there a need to do all of this?

So people will avoid situations where they could get killed.

Its much easier to just put somethign in the game-engine then to check reported players ect... because reporting players usually turns into an OOC war (remember kallahorn Vs trollsbane?)

This way people will be forced to take death seriously. If you already roleplay a fear of death, you probably won't get killed so often.

Who said "people don't have a fear of death"...... I would like to know which chars since all of mine do and most of my friends also. I am sorry, but these generalities may not be for long time RPers ig. At least I haven't seen it except in new players. One such player was german and even with the language difficulty he RP'd his injury after we just briefly talked to him ooc. IMO it is more a learning situation.. some coming from other games that have a system of "knock out" may never have thought of RPing injuries. For those few "older" players that still do it, call a GM.

Its much easier to just put somethign in the game-engine then to check reported players ect

It depends on how many do this... is a lot reported to the GM? If not that needs to be stressed then see a general trend of exactly how many. From there I would think a decision can be made on using game engine to push a RP situation.

[Llama]

It depends on how many do this... is a lot reported to the GM? If not that needs to be stressed then see a general trend of exactly how many. From there I would think a decision can be made on using game engine to push a RP situation.

Lets put it this way, would you (or anyone) REALLY report players for not RPing death? Unless you particularly hate them?

I know I wouldn't, I only reported one player in my whole life (and it was due to a PKing/reskill spree). I'm sure most people don't report to a GM, and that's too much work for the poor gm, if he has to check every single report.

[Nitram]

In general it would be good if the players (nobody excluded) report every kind of rulebreak in the game. Is it inproper roleplay about death. Unneeded OOC or anthing else.

But sadly nobody does this what results in the point that many, even older players, ignore a good set of rules.

Nitram

[Sssari]

I don't know about you, but I fear my character dieing constantly, if Sssari was to die, then all the rp possibilities that i had in my mind would never come true, thats a big fear IMO. I feel that the punishments for "Death" even when that death isn't necessarily a IC death are large enough, and allow freedom.

[Rosendil]

I like I, II and IV (best point! drop ALL items, not destroy).

With III I am not sure about, because gaining the skill back is very time consuming at a certain level.

@nitram: Basically you are right. IMHO another problem is, that the diffence between "death" and "clouded" is not clear enough.
E.g. the subject of this post should be "Getting cloulded is Serious Business", because for a ghosted character there is always a way back with the help of the gods (crosses).

[Julius]

We already have a system close to this. We have n00bish attributes for like an hour after being creamed.

Face it. No one fears death in any game. I don't fear death in any console game I play, any online game I've played, or anything of that general nature. I mean, I avoid it, but it's impossible to actually make someone fear it.

Not too mention there shouldn't be anything that someone fears over a game.

Besides of course, the always looming "You're banned." But banning someone because of not fearing or not rping a death to the tee would only create more problems then it solved.

[Joxia Doral]

Face it. No one fears death in any game. I don't fear death in any console game I play, any online game I've played, or anything of that general nature. I mean, I avoid it, but it's impossible to actually make someone fear it.

Its not about YOU being afraid, its about th PO RPing some semblance of fear for their life as though it was a very real threat.

[Estralis Seborian]

If you really want to make death worse, which you should think over again, you could aswell simply prolong the current penalty of reduced attributes.
These hinder your character alot already.

I agree with Keikan (damn, I am writing this way too often recently!). Attribute penalties hamper...

I) Skillgain
II) Crafting, regeneration

And we already have...

III) Skill loss upon death

IV) Drop of items (I think at a rate of 50%)

So, basically, I see no need to hire a developer to implement something new. How about using what we already have and spice it up a bit? Note: When the player (not the character who always should fear death) fears death due to he not e.g. being able to play Illarion properly, people might tend to avoid death too much - resulting in even more unfair persona-play, more bitching, less cooperative playing,...

[Kaila Galathil Travinus]

...when the player (not the character who always should fear death) fears death due to he not e.g. being able to play Illarion properly, people might tend to avoid death too much - resulting in even more unfair persona-play, more bitching, less cooperative playing,...

I agree fully! You said it much better then what I tried ...added to that, I fear some of that is going on ig now.

[The Returner]

Because proper roleplay is a requirement to play Illarion?

Go back to the closed account storywriting process for all races and new characters, and screen names before they ever make it online?

This would require new volunteers to the staff in terms of manpower, but might lower the need for reworking the death system, which nobody really wants to do.

If there was a rework, I say all items get dropped in addition to some harsh skill penalties.