Illarion.org

Please do not just close the thread. This is a level-headed discussion regarding the account system.

This is a proposal to restore the account system.

For those who aren't in the know, previously in order to get an account on Illarion you needed to write a short essay (a test) which would then be read by the GMs who would decide whether you get in or not. You also needed a name-check, but I don't like that.

Arguments For:

I) We have enough players.

The main argument for removing the account test was that there weren't enough players around. As it is, we have a good playerbase now, and even if you DO put the account system back, the growth won't be 0 either.

II) The server can't handle more players.

I'm no super-expert in these things, but the server visibly lags when the number of people increases heavily. Even mana/health increase slows down quite obviously.

III) The game can't handle more players.

Lets be honest about this. Everyone looks the same. There are 2 major crafts. There are only a basic (and limited) amount of monsters to kill.

I'm not saying anythign against the game, but it doesn't look as if it was designed for mainstream as it is.

IV) Roleplay level is degrading

Yeah yeah heard this a million times before. The truth is, before you couldn't do anything without bumping into a nice roleplay session. As I said many times before, the best moments of the game for me were spent around a campfire. Nowadays everyone is either skilling up or doing something related.

V) Anyone who's serious about it can get through the essay

Speaks for itself.

VI) Makes the game look 'professional'

This is something I'm totally serious about. When I saw the essay requirement, I didn't think "Oh great, let me find another game", instead I thought "Wow they're really serious about this". So I applied, read the rules, read the manual (which was very incorrect at the time), and prepared myself.
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Obviously I'm a little biased. I please ask the GMs to consider this, and the rest of the community to...

Discuss.

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
IV) Roleplay level is degrading

Yeah yeah heard this a million times before. The truth is, before you couldn't do anything without bumping into a nice roleplay session. As I said many times before, the best moments of the game for me were spent around a campfire. Nowadays everyone is either skilling up or doing something related.

You haven't been to the fire/tavern in a while now have you? Last week, I spent a looot of hours in these two places RPing and...like maybe an hour doing technical skilling? There was people willing to roleplay there, not just using the fire for cooking or such. *Nods*

Nearly every day I play in I check the tavern around 3 times. In one of this thee times I meet someone I could play with,
but mostly english players that don´t use words or phrases I don´t konw (I´m really bad in english if you ask me)
or german ones who´s rp is even worse than mine.
The last time I had good rp in the tavern was around two mounths back from the start of my break three weeks ago.
For having fun I need to meet up with players I know or run into a good one by accident.

I totally agree with Hadrian

I agree with this. If we do want more players, they should be people who know and understand rp.

Its true, the current system is more about common sense than roleplaying, maybe characters should write a full background and be judged on that, at least it would show the willingness to research the world!

Agreed.

I have to disagree... mainly because its an extreme turn off for incoming players. It is a huge workload on GMs to manage these essays, even if there is a good RPer looking to play the game, most will lose interest after waiting a week to hear anything back about there essay/application.

After having the essay application system for a while, we had online players at an all time low. I remember looking at the player online list and there being no one on past 8pm EST time. There was an extreme lack of players.

We may have a good amount of players now. But the player count will only decrease and in time we will be back to have no players online at certain times. It really killed me when i saw this.

But yes, then again there is lower RP quality because of it. But people learn. I've seen many people learn from scratch quickly.

Salathe wrote:I have to disagree... mainly because its an extreme turn off for incoming players. It is a huge workload on GMs to manage these essays, even if there is a good RPer looking to play the game, most will lose interest after waiting a week to here anything back about there essay/application.

After having the essay application system for a while, we had online players at an all time low. I remember looking at the player online list and there being no one on past 8pm EST time. There was an extreme lack of players.

We may have a good amount of players now. But the player count will only decrease and in time we will be back to have no players online at certain times. It really killed me when i saw this.

But yes, then again there is lower RP quality because of it. But people learn. I've seen many people learn from scratch quickly.

*agrees*
though I loved those essays

and yes, give new players the chance to "learn"
I can't help to think that you all think in a far too elitary way

my oppinion: lets test the newby island first

Ivar Kraftimarm wrote:my oppinion: lets test the newby island first

agreed! This should indeed help the level of RP, and even increase the player count. its also a big turn off to players to log on and have no idea whats going on, because face it, no one wants to read the manual. Newbia (or whatever its called) will certainly help both issues

I suppose it does sound somewhat elitary of us, I retract my suggestion of restricting first time players but maybe they should only create more than one character when they have written a background to them, gives them a chance to prove themselves.

Salathe wrote:I have to disagree... mainly because its an extreme turn off for incoming players. It is a huge workload on GMs to manage these essays, even if there is a good RPer looking to play the game, most will lose interest after waiting a week to hear anything back about there essay/application.

I think we have more than enough active GMs, and anyway they could give the task to trusted players as well.

We may have a good amount of players now. But the player count will only decrease and in time we will be back to have no players online at certain times. It really killed me when i saw this.

I don't agree with this. Most people can write an essay, it'll just filter the rubbish from the rest. I still remember my essay, it wasn't very good considering; but I still got in. Swish1 had gotten in I believe as well.

But yes, then again there is lower RP quality because of it. But people learn. I've seen many people learn from scratch quickly.

Dedication shows they are WILLING to learn. That they accept that this game is 'different' in a way. Casual gamers wont appreciate the game, and I doubt its the kind of person we want in the game.

If you're ready to try to roleplay, and to develop your character over a period of time, you can afford to write a little essay ONCE.

You still get the occasional noob in even with essay.

Like me .

Noobia can't tell the Newbies how to roleplay well, it just tells how the technical stuff works.

Hadrian, the application system didnt work. It did increase the RP quality somewhat but... There was a time when it was common to see "No players are currently online" At regular hours. The active player count got extremely low. This went on for atleast a couple weeks then the aplication system was quickly removed when it was clear this wasnt a "dry spell" but a permanent loss of active players.

It has been proven that such an application process lowers player count considerably. sure it works for a year or so, but it will indefinately destroy the player count.

When this is in place, there is a sense of elitism, players get arrogant (aka annoying) other players leave, etc. In the end we lose dedicated veteran players, that is what happened.

And the Dev team / GM team has clearly expressed in the past, that they have absolutely no interest in working on a game that has such a small player count. And i dont blame them at all. I'd rather work on a game for larger community, diverse with casual gamers and RPers, than a very small community of RPers.

pharse wrote:Noobia can't tell the Newbies how to roleplay well, it just tells how the technical stuff works.

i thought it is planned that gm's (or experienced players)are also on nobia, to teach roleplaying.

and btw., an essay also can't teach roleplay

Ivar Kraftimarm wrote:

pharse wrote:Noobia can't tell the Newbies how to roleplay well, it just tells how the technical stuff works.

i thought it is planned that gm's (or experienced players)are also on nobia, to teach roleplaying.

and btw., an essay also can't teach roleplay

No but it can show a person is interested enough to want to learn.

Maybe something else is needed to improve the quality of roleplay, like a few tutorials on it written by various members of the community.

Wait, don't we have those already?

Eh whatever.

To address the problems with server instability due to a large amount of players, all I can think of to fix that is rewriting the server.

To address the problems with lack of monsters, graphics, skills and such, I have an idea. Arrange a team of people with at least 4-8 hours a week free and have programming, recoloring, modeling, or other skills needed to develop Illarion, consisting of a proportionate amount of people to equal or be 1.5 to 3x more than the Devs and moderators' combined total, call them "interns", and see how it goes from there. I would volunteer myself as one who can recolor the bitmaps, make new ones if given time, and come up with good concepts and ideas for skills and such. There are probably many others who could help, all they (the Devs) need to do is ask around.

Those are my ideas.

Salathe wrote:

Ivar Kraftimarm wrote:my oppinion: lets test the newby island first

agreed!

Agreed.
The application system did not fulfill its purpose. Sure, RP was better back then, but the number of players (20 in peaks, like 5 in average) was not sufficient. It should be noted that 80% of players who created an account (=wanted to check out the game) did not even submit an application (=were scared away). The current test also reduced the number of new accounts, but the number of players who actually play this game rose compared to the state without any test. In the long run, it is best to let everyone check out the game but make clear from the beginning what it is all about. And the latter part can be taught by players and the community - and no, Illarion is not about pwnage, OOC-bitching, cyber-sex and human rights (SCNR).

Silas Farron wrote:I disagree with your first point, mista thread-opener.
We don't have enough players. Whenever I walk along Gobaith, it seems so empty to me, mostly only giving one or two opportunieties to even socialise (and many times, people aren't eveni nterested in a good RP-session).

That just means the map is too big, or at least that we have too many towns:P

Having read quite a few backgrounds of the characters that actually show them online, I would definitely be for an application just requiring a brief background related to the fiction. The "vampire", half orc, half elf, werewolf backgrounds of some wouldn't be so apparent. This also won't be a topic of discussion when a new player starts to roleplay, unless this will be added to the newbie island?

If someone really wants to join, briefly looking at the rules and fiction and writing a short description with background as an application shouldn't be very hard, a lot depends on how helpful people are with the application process.

Possibly it would help to open an application forum even for those new posters. In the thread they start, others could help them with it?

Salathe is right on all counts. Just ask Nitram for the stats on active players now and before. I'm sure he has them.

Hadrian, I'm not sure if you know one little fact... Roleplaying is a SKILL. It is not really natural to be some one else. None of us started playing DnD as some uber RPing machine. Heck, barely any of us started playing Illarion with any roleplaying abilities under our belts. The biggest n00bs often become awesome roleplayers with time. If you want to see overall better roleplay, start with yourself. Lead by example. It is how we all learned.

To conclude, a larger player base will have slightly worse RP. BUT! the player base will all learn in time. So all these players will be even more examples for the next new player that comes along. The new players will then learn faster and we will eliminate a lot of bad roleplay.

Lrmy wrote:Hadrian, I'm not sure if you know one little fact... Roleplaying is a SKILL. It is not really natural to be some one else. None of us started playing DnD as some uber RPing machine. Heck, barely any of us started playing Illarion with any roleplaying abilities under our belts. The biggest n00bs often become awesome roleplayers with time. If you want to see overall better roleplay, start with yourself. Lead by example. It is how we all learned.

Let me repeat it again.

The essay is NOT a roleplayer/non-roleplay filter. It never was. It just determines that you have a BASIC knowledge of how to roleplay (seriously, illarion was my first RP experience as well), and shows that you actually WANT to learn.

To conclude, a larger player base will have slightly worse RP. BUT! the player base will all learn in time. So all these players will be even more examples for the next new player that comes along. The new players will then learn faster and we will eliminate a lot of bad roleplay.

I do not agree, it will get worse. Let me put it this way:
You have 5 good roleplayers, and a new player comes along. A player will meet them, and get the impression of the level of roleplay in the game.

You have 3 good roleplayers and 2 'n00bs', a new player comes along. Might be the case that he meets the 'n00b', either gets scared away, or gets a bad idea of what the game is supposed to be.

Also, they raise the bar somewhat. Nowadays it all seems to be about the skill, you don't skill up, you're nothing. Also you need certain things to FORCE players to roleplay. The illness system for example.

Hadrian_Abela wrote:The essay is NOT a roleplayer/non-roleplay filter.

Indeed. In fact it was a player filter. In the weeks before the essay was disabled we got exactly 0 new players. Neighter good nor bad one. Something like this just doesn't work.

The essay will NOT return.

Nitram