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Kochen und backen scheinen eine sichere Einnahmequelle zu sein, da ja sowieso jeder essen muss oder?

Nachdem was ich selbst schon längere Zeit erlebe und was ich von einigen Chars/Spielern wohl mehr oder weniger bestätigt bekommen habe, ist dem nicht so.
Kochen bringt kaum Gewinn und der größte Teil des Geldes geht wieder dafür drauf, das man neue Zutaten nachkauft, ich habe mir einmal einige Gedanken gemacht um dies zu ändern.

1.Essenstrank: Essenstränke wirken fast sofort und verringern das Hungergefühl auf Null, nicht einmal das billigste Essen, der Hasenbraten, kann da mithalten. Der Preis beträgt gerade einmal 25 Kupfer und man scheint bis zu 8 pro Stunde kaufen zu können. Man muss nur den Hasenbraten als Beispiel nehmen, er füllt gerade mal 3/4 des Hungers und ist nur geringfügig billiger als die Tränke, zudem sind das geringe Gewicht, der niedrigere Preis und die Masse andere Vorteile gegenüber richtigem Essen.

Lösung:Eigentlich recht einfach, man verringert die Anzahl der Tränke und/oder verteuert sie so weit, das richtiges Essen besser erscheint.

2.Hasenbraten ist zu einfach.
Der Hasenbraten kann bereits als zweites Gericht gekocht werden, das macht es einfach für "Hobbyköche" mal eben einige Skillpunkte zu erwerben und dann einfach selbst den Hasenbraten zu braten.

Lösung: Das Gericht bleibt so wie es ist, allerdings sollten erst erfahrene Köche die Möglichkeit haben diesen zu braten und zuzubereiten. Ich denke der neue Platzs sollte vielleicht hinter dem Steak angesiedelt werden oder zumindestens so weit weg, das jene, die vorher Hasenbraten gekocht haben, es jetz sehr schwierig haben dürften um den "neuen" Braten zu bekommen.

3.Einige Rezepte sind zu kompliziert.
Es gibt nur wenig "einfache" Rezepte, selbst einfache Sachen wie Suppen benötigen eine Masse an Zutaten.

Lösung: Man sollte einige Rezepte einfach "abspecken", viele Zutaten sind entweder äußerst teuer oder nur schwer zu bekommen, zudem mit der Einführung der verschiedenen Felder wird es noch schwieriger an einige Zutaten heranzukommen.
Es gibt eine Menge verschiedener Essen, jedoch werden diese einfach nicht genutzt, da es billiger und einfacher ist Kuchen oder Hasenbraten zu benutzen.

Dann gibt es noch einige andere kleinere "Probleme" und Ungereimtheiten, so braucht man für einen Kuchen schon mehr Früchte, als ein Obstbaum überhaupt gibt.


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Cooking and backing look like a good craft for decent moneyflow, everyone needs to eat right?

Well from what I gathered from a few chars/players who actually play cooks, it isn't worth the time, you might get a few spare coins from your craft, but this normally goes down the drain for more ingrediens, so obviously there seem to be something off with the food system, well I gathered a few "bad" points and I try to give solutions.

1. Foodpotions: Foodpotions instantly raise the stamina to the maximum and they are only 25 copper cheap, atleast last time I checked, it seems that they are also plentyfull, if I'm not mistaken you can buy around 8 per hour.
Instant full stamina can't be done with that less effort for such a low price, even the easy rabbit dish only fills up like 3/4 of the food bar and only costs a little less money, but also is heavier.

Using the Illapedia: we need 5 copper for the onion 3 for the rabbit meat and 5 copper for the plate that means we allready got 13 copper just for the ingredients, now taken in account that we might miss every second dish we create atleast once that makes a good 15 just for the Ingrediences, now we want to add the worktime to make it and the dfficult, lets jsut say we want 5 copper for the time and everything.
So by now we are at 20 Copper for a rabbit dish, which does not fill someone completly, means we need to pay for more and "heavier" food thus making foodpotions again more usefull.

The solution to this is fairly easy, make the food potions far more expensiv or more rare thus forcing players to use "normal food" to keep them working.

2. Rabbit dish can be cooked too easy.
That is easy to explain, you need only 3 ingrediences and its allready the second dish you can cook, thus its possible to simpyl cook a few sausages get the skillpoints in and then simply cook the rabbit dish.

Solution: Move the dish up in the skill rank, make it only possible for people who really can cook, maybe after the steak or something, this should reduce all those "hobby cooks" and open more space for real cooks, who do this for a living and not just to sustain themself while they work on something else.

3. Most dishes are "too" complicated.
Except the basic ones like sausages and steaks or rabbit dishes every dish needs a huge amount of ingredients, even simple soups take several steps to completed.

Solution: Make the dishes less complicated, some ingredients are expensiv, really really expensiv, tomatos and onions arem't sold by many people and with the fields now giving only a few plants the ability to grow it gets even harder to aquiere the goods.

Alles außer dem Essenstrank: In Arbeit / Everything but the food potion: In work.

1) Stimmt. Man könnte die Sattmacher komplett aus dem Sortiment des NPC nehmen. Später können ja die Druiden diese Tränke herstellen und verkaufen. Ansonsten wäre aus meiner Sicht eine Preiserhöhung auf 1 oder 2 Silber angemessen.

2) Wurde schon mehrfach angesprochen und diskutiert aber leider entwicklerseitig immer wieder ignoriert. Meiner Meinung nach sollte der Hasenbraten, wie früher, nur von den sehr guten Köchen hergestellt werden können.

3) Na ja. Irgendeine Herausforderung brauchen die Köche doch auch noch
Vielleicht kann man den aufwändigen Gerichten noch einen nützliche "Nebenwirkung" mitgeben, damit es einen Grund gibt diese überhaupt zu Kochen und zu kaufen. Ich denke da z.B. an schnellere Heilung oder Manaregenerierung.

bitte erst nach dem winter einführen, FALLS die rezepte so geändert werden, dass man zusätzliche zutaten braucht. es ist schwer jetzt noch die sachen aufzutreiben.

ansonsten gute idee

Please dont make warriors dependant on YET another trade. I already spend enough time looking for crafters who can sell me armour and stuff. Just make the food system skilless or something, so it is only there for rp purposes. I dont see why we would want to seriously annoy like.. 60% of the community, just so the 5% playing a char who is PARTLY cook can be satisfied. We will just end up spending lots of coins buying "good" food from npcs. This has already been tried (or something similar) and it sucked if you ask me. If anything make bad food drain intelligence instead, cause as it is now only warrior chars have to care about what they eat.

The killer for me was that onions only grow in the northern part of the island where less than 10% of the farmland is. You've (still) got to be joking that you think a halfling town would not be able to grow something as simple as a onion. This isn't indigo or saffron or truffles, they're onions! Not to mention you need them for a vast amount of dishes, you might as well have nuked Greenbriar and the Farmer's Union.

I think that we need a more dynamic cooking system, and create generic food items. Example: you have x(meat), y(vegetable), and z(mushroom/herb) type of ingrediants. Combine 1 of each ingrediant to get a dish. Combine 2 of y and 1 x to get a stew, combine 2y and 1z to get a soup. Ect.

2) Wurde schon mehrfach angesprochen und diskutiert aber leider entwicklerseitig immer wieder ignoriert.

Das stimmt so nicht ganz. Wie bereits geschrieben, befindet sich der gesamte Kochzyklus auf dem Prüfstand. Solche "Merkwürdigkeiten" wie der Hasenbraten oder auch das Fleischgericht sind erkannt und werden beizeiten behoben. Allerdings wird es kein "Stückwerk" geben, wenn, dann wird alles vernünftig gemacht.

Gro'bul wrote:The killer for me was that onions only grow in the northern part of the island where less than 10% of the farmland is. You've (still) got to be joking that you think a halfling town would not be able to grow something as simple as a onion.

Yeah that's really horrible. Sure its more realistic, but it DOESN'T HELP. For a job as poor as cooking, them having to import basic onions is horrible. -_-

So schlecht ist diese Idee von Pellandria ja nicht.

Ich finde es nur nicht gut, das man erst mitten beim Kochen erfährt das man plötzlich unbedigt Zwiebeln braucht. Ist das nicht änderbar, so dass man erst mit dem Kochen beginnen kann, sobald man alle Zutaten beisammen hat?

Ansonsten hat Pellandria Recht, es ist mehr als unwarscheinlich das ich für einen einfachen Apfelkuchen Dutzende von Äpfeln benötige, weil es in Real doch auch keineswegs so ist, nicht wahr?

Außerdem möchte ich wissen, warum Kochen und Backen nicht aufgespaöten wird und als jeweils einzelner Skill gilt.

Das es nicht aufgespalten wurde liegt an der geringen Zahl der Backwahren. Für meines wissens 5 Produckte macht ein eigener Skill wenig sinn.

Welche der NPCs verkaufen Sattmacher und bedürfen einer kurzfristigen Preisänderung?

Tut das nicht dieser Halbling am Hospital in Trollsbane und der Halbling in Greenbriar?

Ich kan Pellandria auch nur zustimmen. Ich spiele mit mit Mary eigentlich eine reine Köchin und greife allenfalls auf Ackerbau und Käuterkunde zurück, wenn die Umstände mich dazu zwingen.
Leider ist das viel zu oft der Fall, da Zutaten und anderes Benötigtes, wie Teller und Schüsseln, nunmal ihren Preis haben und eine einfache Köchin nunmal, aus den von Pell bereits genannten Gründen, nicht gerade viele Kunden hat. Mein Char kann sich dank Tauschhandel gegen Zutaten gerade so über Wasser halten. Doch Gewinn bringende Aufträge sind sehr selten.

Was die Abhängigkeit von Spielern untereinander betrifft, wie die der Krieger von Schmieden (und eigentlich auch Köchen), war das nicht eigentlich so gewollt? Bitte beschwert euch über diesen Effekt nicht allzu sehr. Schließlich hätte ein Char ja eigentlich gar nicht den Elan und die Zeit das alles selbst zu erledigen. Ich versuch ja auch die Abhängigkeit meines Chars von anderen Handwerken zu erhalten und es würde auch prima klappen, hätten wir da nicht so viele "eierlegende Wollmilchsäue" im Spiel...

Für eine Preiserhöhung bei den NPCs wär ich im Übrigen sehr dankbar...

I looked at that price list and I don't think its right. Onions usually sell alot cheaper than that, the halfling in greenbriar sells them for 1 copper each(its very hard importing them and they're not only used for cooking but also tailoring). Plates may go for 5, but usually are sold for 3. Though I've never seen anyone sell rabbit meat I guess that sounds like a fair price.

I can't read most of this topic so I'm not sure if its already been said or not, but food potions are bad for someone's diet. Though finding out whats actually good for someone's diet is impossible some bad things were noted, and food potions were on the list. This should cover most of your points about cooking so cooks shouldn't complain too much since people actually have to buy thier goods for something already implemented in the game.

There are lots of proffesions where the goods produced are both unneeded and nearly impossible to sell, I think something should be done about those before improving the amount of money others can make...of course everyone knows smiths make too much money if you want to pick on them I won't complain

I think beer and alcoholic drinks have far too low food value. I would recommend making them fairly hard in skill, and increase their food value. Beer is not called "liquid bread" for nothing. Ancient cultures used this as a main source of food rather than bread because it lasted longer. The better alcohols (wine and mead) could give smaller food value, but high class food value so you can keep up your food bonus.

hm. I like the food system as it is. Cooking can be mainly done for fun and rp purposes, i think it should be kept that way.

Also it costs my character barely anything to make rabbit dishes. You just need to know how to bargain

Colin Smalls wrote:hm. I like the food system as it is.

The system itself won't change, for all crafting actions are generalized and the basic crafting system of Illarion is good the way it is. One can tweak it in numerous ways, depending on the craft in question. Changing an ingredient to a dish isn't a new system .

But there are simply some strange oddities - there are dishes that grant less food value than the ingredients alone and others are not craftable without having to move items from the bag into the belt twice. Those need to be fixed along with other things.

Well id like to make another suggestion. Lack of food, or poor quality food, shouldnt just damage your constitution. Someone without food is likely to be weaker mentally, so it should damage your willpower, and also dexterity. At the same time good quality food should improve more than just constitution, etc. This forces people other than fighters to buy good food.

Of course, collecting ingredients needs to be made a lot easier and cheaper.

We had the "punish players for eating free food"-stuff already. It is not the policy of the staff to punish players but to award wanted behaviour. Illarion must not become a life-simulation or a hardcore stat game. All technical aspects should be convenient attachments to the roleplaying and must not hamper it or the fun people have playing this game. Sure, fun comes from overcoming obstacles and meeting challenges, but one must not over-complicate things.

Anyway, maybe we just present the intended changes instead of talking about unhatched chickens.

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 44&start=3

Only to test it. We will see, what happens.

Lennier wrote:http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 44&start=3

Only to test it. We will see, what happens.

Now i'm definately against it. Unless food starts raising my mana, restoring my life bar and curing my poison I don't see why it should cost me a silver for each type of potion. More over no one makes potions therefore it's not effecting anyones business. Tripling the price of antidotes/healing potion/mana potion is not going to bolister my desire to buy food.

Definate overkill

Athian wrote:Unless food starts raising my mana, restoring my life bar and curing my poison I don't see why it should cost me a silver for each type of potion.

Actually food does exactly this. Without food you regenerate your mana and health much slower. And against poison it helps as well since the reduction of health due the poison stands against the increase of heath due the regeneration. So with more food in yours characters stomach you have a better chance to survive poison.

Nitram

Oh Nitram, you know what i mean.

I thought the point was to make people buy more food. But instead of making improvements in the food which could probably be done in many ways the price of items gets raised.

Estralis Seborian wrote:We had the "punish players for eating free food"-stuff already. It is not the policy of the staff to punish players but to award wanted behaviour.

I'm not seeing it honestly. I don't mind a price raise but not that much at least not for everything.

Raising the price for foodpotions WITHOUT removing the rabbit meal from the list of "easy" meals is counterproductive and will afford a lot of new amateur cooks. The real cooks still won't sell anything.

Its not counterproductive its useless Rosendil. But as Estralis said a rebalancing of the crafting stuff things is in work.

Nitram

Why not give other food other effects, gives people a reason to not just buy the cheapest and easiest made thing. I mean Rabbit dish has a major problem in that you never HAVE to learn anything else. Why have a bunch of different meals when they all end in the same result?

Even if you do everything under the sun to make it difficult people will just pick the next easiest item and so on. the problem will be solved with giving the dishes items more diversity, right now they're all the same thing with different graphic's

By eating only rabbit dishes one can't reach a constitution bonus of +2.

Please make a proposal how exactly you want to diversify the dishes, as this is a proposal board, not a moaning board.

Athian wrote:Why not give other food other effects, gives people a reason to not just buy the cheapest and easiest made thing. I mean Rabbit dish has a major problem in that you never HAVE to learn anything else. Why have a bunch of different meals when they all end in the same result?

Even if you do everything under the sun to make it difficult people will just pick the next easiest item and so on. the problem will be solved with giving the dishes items more diversity, right now they're all the same thing with different graphic's

Why doesnt your character just eat the food because it tastes better? I thought this was a roleplay game.

If i feel like moaning about something then I will and there isn't Sh&! you can do about it.

Certainly this game as rp aspects, but it also has technical aspects and games become unbalanced when people start ignoring one over the other. So while some people will address Rp aspects firsts others will of course want to Address technical aspects first, there is nothing wrong with either except when people begin snapping at other people who aren't the the same page as them. It doesn't make someone a terrible player just because they think about technical aspects as well, people need to get that stigma out of there heads.

As to food diversity It might be nice to do a few different things. Awhile sgo i recall someone (not sure who) saying that it would be good if different foods gave different bonuses. Which isn't a bad idea in my opinion

Aside from that idea it might be nice to have more simply temporary boosts. You always hear things like runners stock up on carbs before doing a marathon and etc. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to do something similar with some foods.

So the farmer who has to work the fields during the day might bring breads rather then soup, since breads will give hm more stamina over the long period of time. Satmina could be represented by a strenght boost for X amount of time or even a reduction on the rate at which the food bar is used up while doing certain crafts. The foods could be varied in no real specific manner so that the entire range of foods are used.

Light easily made foods are good for these temporary boosts in stamina(or anything else) while rich well made foods do as foods do now and give you a +(X) in a stat.

@ Phrase and Colin
since it a proposal board and all how about either of you make proposals as well or even counter arguments, don't just stop in to chastise people, it's hardly any better then what you blame others for

peace dude, i wasnt really having ago at you, i just think people should be encouraged to treat food more as an rp system, since the technical concepts seem rather unbalanced, and changing it looks more trouble than its worth.

I certainly wouldnt look down on someone who plays more for the technical aspects, its their choice i guess. #me shrugs