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I dont want to start an argument about mages being too overpowered blah blah, but it does seem pretty clear that one on one and with distance to travel, a fighter, no matter how skilled he is has 0.001 chance against one of the more powerful mages. Not sure how you can argue against that.

I had two ideas about how to even things up slightly.

1. Make magic impossible (or harder) to cast when in combat.

or..

2. (the one id like to see) Introduce into the game a limited number of special magic resistant shields, which have no real combat value, but significantly raise a fighter's magic resistance or whatever. These shields could be extremely rare, maybe hidden in special places throughout the game. They wouldnt make a fighter certain to win, just give him a genuine chance. Not sure how it would be done, but if you could, i think it would be good.

You can't cast any good spells when you're being attacked... you can cast weak fireball, pushing wind and weak healing, which have negligible effects. On top of that, most mages have 3 con. As long as the fighter is the first to strike and slashes quickly, the mage stands no chance as long as you can kill him before he can push you away, which isn't exactly hard. If a mage is casting and ANYTHING happens to him, he stops casting. i.e. if you have even semi decent skills and you attack a mage, he can cast 3 non-illusionary spells. My char's best friend ig could probably kill him in under 2 seconds if he got the first strike. To kill someone with magic you need.. say on average 3 kel ra qwans, which have about a 2/3 second cast time, the whole time of which needs to be spent not being attacked. Also, paralyze appears to have stopped having a decent effect, and it has something like a 3 second cast time anyway, meaning that there's really no point in using it. There's also a max distance you can cast from, meaning that the chance of you getting even 2 kel ra qwans on someone before they get to you are negligible, and it takes 3 minimum to kill someone. Really, to be killed by a mage, you've either chosen bad attributes, or you're not skilled enough, but this goes for mages to fighters to. You need at least 60% commotio skill before you can cause any real damage. I don't really see how it's difficult to attack someone when they're not expecting it, if you manage to get them from behind it's practically impossible they can target you, turn round and select the two runes and release when they have 3 con and no armour, and not be killed.

Can people like.. actually know what they're talking about when they make yet another "nerf magic" request?

AlexRose wrote: Can people like.. actually know what they're talking about when they make yet another "nerf magic" request?

That will never stop, people don't see the actually work you have to put into a mage char to even get so "omgawd powerfull" and now we wait for the "Mages are support chars" statements..who ever came up with this crap is...

Well anyway the magic system is, atleast what it seems, constantly nerfed down anyway, so you just have to wait a little more and all we can do soon is sprincel a few sparks which don't do shit...guess then people complain that we can create light effects...

AlexRose wrote:You can't cast any good spells when you're being attacked... you can cast weak fireball, pushing wind and weak healing, which have negligible effects. On top of that, most mages have 3 con. As long as the fighter is the first to strike and slashes quickly, the mage stands no chance as long as you can kill him before he can push you away, which isn't exactly hard. If a mage is casting and ANYTHING happens to him, he stops casting. i.e. if you have even semi decent skills and you attack a mage, he can cast 3 non-illusionary spells.

Can people like.. actually know what they're talking about when they make yet another "nerf magic" request?

Ok i didnt know they had weak spells when attacked.. but still, there are so many ways a powerful mage can take a fighter out its extremely rare he'll ever get close. Paralysis, wind, you can even teleport your enemy to somewhere miles away. Then add the fact that in two blasts most fighters are dead and i think you get what i mean.

Ignore the first idea, i still think the second one would be good.

Sundo Raca wrote:

AlexRose wrote:You can't cast any good spells when you're being attacked... you can cast weak fireball, pushing wind and weak healing, which have negligible effects. On top of that, most mages have 3 con. As long as the fighter is the first to strike and slashes quickly, the mage stands no chance as long as you can kill him before he can push you away, which isn't exactly hard. If a mage is casting and ANYTHING happens to him, he stops casting. i.e. if you have even semi decent skills and you attack a mage, he can cast 3 non-illusionary spells.

Can people like.. actually know what they're talking about when they make yet another "nerf magic" request?

Ok i didnt know they had weak spells when attacked.. but still, there are so many ways a powerful mage can take a fighter out its extremely rare he'll ever get close. Paralysis, wind, you can even teleport your enemy to somewhere miles away. Then add the fact that in two blasts most fighters are dead and i think you get what i mean.

Ignore the first idea, i still think the second one would be good.

Portal spell: Requires 100% skill in pervestigatio, (Yes, 100), has a 4 second cast time, has a high chance of failure because you can't get 101% skill.

Paralysis: 3 second cast time or something like that, paralyses for about 2 seconds usually. Useful.

Wind: Okay, so you wind them, they walk back to you in about 2 seconds, you have to take time to target them and select the runes and once you've cast the spell you have to retarget them cos you lose your target.

Teleportation spell to run away: Has a 1/2 second cast time so you can easily hit him in that time.

KEL RA QWAN (the strongest single blast spell): Has about a 2 second cast time and a maximum damage, (that is: if you char has no armour whatsoever and 3 essence) of around 45%, and this is for a mage with max attributes and about 75%ish skill. Unless you're Dale, Matt or Avalyon, that's gonna take you a few months. That means you have to cast AT LEAST 3 spells to kill someone, and given that you have to choose the runes too, it usually takes about 10 seconds to do that whole process. Easily enough time to be stopped.

Mages basically cannot do anything till they have around 60% commo and 45ish pervy. Mages are only good at high level, and same level fighters can easily take them down, not to mention mages have to go to lessons to get runes and it takes forever to get any good spells, and they have a mana bar, which stops them casting too much or learning. Plus, they have 3 main skills to focus on, and the other 2 if they're bothered. Fighters usually just focus on parry, slash and tactics, and you get them all together, mages have to train with them separately, and the cast time means it's very difficult to rake up skill.

Go play a mage then make a thread like this.

Any more claims you'd like to make?

And I'm pretty sure shields already do reduce magic damage, but don't quote me on that.

Sundo Raca wrote:

AlexRose wrote:You can't cast any good spells when you're being attacked... you can cast weak fireball, pushing wind and weak healing, which have negligible effects. On top of that, most mages have 3 con. As long as the fighter is the first to strike and slashes quickly, the mage stands no chance as long as you can kill him before he can push you away, which isn't exactly hard. If a mage is casting and ANYTHING happens to him, he stops casting. i.e. if you have even semi decent skills and you attack a mage, he can cast 3 non-illusionary spells.

Can people like.. actually know what they're talking about when they make yet another "nerf magic" request?

Ok i didnt know they had weak spells when attacked.. but still, there are so many ways a powerful mage can take a fighter out its extremely rare he'll ever get close. Paralysis, wind, you can even teleport your enemy to somewhere miles away. Then add the fact that in two blasts most fighters are dead and i think you get what i mean.

Ignore the first idea, i still think the second one would be good.

LOL first of, to "teleport someone miles away" you need portals. Those require either fcking good equipment, which is pretty damn hard to get or at least about 80% pervestigatio (which no pc but Nalc and maybe Avalyon) has. The only mages I know of, that can seriously use portals are Kadiya, Nalc, Avalyon, Sideon and Will. Besides that, a portal takes about 4 - 5 seconds to be casted. During that time, any warrior with more than 50% avarage skills can run up to a mage and kill him. Second, as Alex said, you need at least THREE strong fireballs/icebolts to kill a warrior (and to get the real damage out of KEL HEPT / RA QWAN, you also need about 70% in that skill). Third, as Alex mentioned also, paralyzing isn't as effective as it used to be.

Warriors are better in close combat, mages are better in ranged combat. But in close combat, mages stand no chance, while in ranged combat, warriors have a good chance.

Instead of that shield-thing idea, I would rather make Spells such as Fireballs, etc. (things, that are "shot" by the mage) dodgeable due to the dodge-skill of the attacked warrior.

Well i got to see seregon and avalyon testing it out with konrad.. and the cast times looked more like one second to me. Certainly enough time to cast the spell before the fighter reached them. Basically it was clear that a fighter running at a mage will get owned.

I dont think my proposal would change things that much anyway. They would just make things more interesting.

Allright, who of the mages feels like making videos of try-fights with fraps, upping them to illa to let all those complainers see how "strong" a mage really is? I'd give my warrior with avarage Skill to try it out.

Sundo Raca wrote:Well i got to see seregon and avalyon testing it out with konrad.. and the cast times looked more like one second to me. Certainly enough time to cast the spell before the fighter reached them. Basically it was clear that a fighter running at a mage will get owned.

I dont think my proposal would change things that much anyway. They would just make things more interesting.

Then make sure you get the first hit...

A fighter attacking from a range will get owned by a very high level mage like those two, who can probably cast every spell.

A mage attacking from right next to it will have absolutely no chance against a decent level fighter.

but even if a mage does get sneaked up on (never seen this happen by the way) surely the answer is just 1. windblast 2. teleport to safe distance 3. blast the hell out of the fighter from range.

Im not really trying to argue about how powerful mages are, i just like the idea of very rare magic resistant shields. Its not like every fighter would suddenly have them.

If a fighter has magic resis shield..then a mage should be able to have a shield and cast in order not to get KO'd at a fighters first hit. I would also agree to try to play a mage and a fighter char before some proposals.

Sundo Raca wrote:but even if a mage does get sneaked up on (never seen this happen by the way) surely the answer is just 1. windblast 2. teleport to safe distance 3. blast the hell out of the fighter from range.

Im not really trying to argue about how powerful mages are, i just like the idea of very rare magic resistant shields. Its not like every fighter would suddenly have them.

Magic resistance makes your spells come back at you, and when your own spells hit you they're at about double strength. One strong spell backfired and one hit from a fighter would kill you.

And no, you'd have to spin round cos you can't cast behind you, hold alt, click jus, click qwan (out of 28 runes) then click your target and release. Then you have to hold alt, click jus, click taur, click kel, click where you want to teleport and release then wait for the 1 second cast time. Now the fighter's still on screen, you now have to use MES PEN SIH to fully heal yourself, so that'll take a few seconds. Oh, now the fighters back at you again, you jus qwan him again, say you targeted him with your wand this time and theoretically bookmarked the spell, you'd then lose your target and have to heal again cos he would've got to you. You can only cast kel ra qwan from like.. say 8 spaces away, and by the time the cast time's over, he'll be right next to you. Then you'd have to gust again and kel ra qwan. Also, if you wanted to do this you'd have to chug a potion or two. Also, if you're a battle mage and magic got nerfed, you may as well delete your char, battle mages can't do **** right now as it is already. Dom with his best equipment can probably kill me in 2/3 hits, or if uses like magical broadswords or something he could kill me in half a second probably. He does something like 4 hits a second. We're both masters of our things. i.e. I have stupidly expensive equipment (excellent topaz ring, archmage ring, wind wand, icebird amulet etc.) and decent skills, which took me like a year to get. He has great equipment, which also gives him extra damage, mine just allows me to cast more spells, and extremely high skill, so I guess you could say we're both masters, since I can cast every spell and he's just awesome. I have 3 con and I can't wear armour or I can barely cast. I die instantly. Say I want to kill him, I have to manage to attack first, get a spell on him, wind him again, drink a potion, wind him again, get a spell on him, wind him again, get another spell on him, he still might not be dead yet so I'll need to spam a few kel ras at him too so I'll need another potion, and I have to do all this before he can hit me once. Riiiight, that's likely. In other words, if he gets a single hit or the first hit, I die. Otherwise I have to take like 15 seconds and 2 potions to fluke kill him.

Letia wrote:If a fighter has magic resis shield..then a mage should be able to have a shield and cast in order not to get KO'd at a fighters first hit. I would also agree to try to play a mage and a fighter char before some proposals.

I would agree to that. Let mages cast in combat. Id like to point out again that with my proposal not every fighter would have these shields. They'd be very hard to get, and even with one shouldnt make winning a fight certain.

Be an archer. zomg revolution!

He does something like 4 hits a second

LOL Alex. No. Really, no. Leave magic how it is, and imagine mages as mage skeletons. They die in about that time, maybe a bit longer if they have good parry. It's a nice idea, but even if it was implemented, the shields would have to only do something like take 10-15% of the spell away, and then it wouldn't be worth it if it was useless as a normal shield, since you'd be carrying that and another shield around all the time just in case a mage popped out and tried to kill you for one reason or another.
The general thing is, if a mage attacks a fighter from far away s/he has a higher chance of winning, and if the fighter is stood next to the mage when either one attacks then the fighter has a higher chance of winning.

The Magic System is not pretty good that is known. But any change but a complete rework won't make it any better.
We will not fix here and there a little at the magic system to make it even worser after all.

One day it will be rewritten but thats a part of the far future.

After all:
Proposal rejected.